hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 360 of 381 FirstFirst ... 260310350357358359360361362363370 ... LastLast
Results 7,181 to 7,200 of 7616

Thread: The Shitposting Thread

  1. #7181
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,996
    Coming soon(tm): Napoleontic Warfare. Oh wait ....
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  2. #7182
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    13,205
    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Even now, in 2017, people blaming the sov system. Who's old enough to recall essentially identical conversations about Dominion sov or Kali sov?
    Wars were happening tho. Are wars happening now?
    Were wars continually occurring within Kali sov?

    (no they weren't)
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  3. #7183
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    13,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Foiritain View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Even now, in 2017, people blaming the sov system. Who's old enough to recall essentially identical conversations about Dominion sov or Kali sov?
    Wars were happening tho. Are wars happening now?
    Wars never happened because the sov system was good/fun at some magical point in history. Wars happened despite the sov systems being bad simply because there was a reason to go to war. The reasons varied over time: sometimes its hate between two groups, sometimes its wanting better space, sometimes its boredom.

    Most of those reasons have gone away; all major alliances have become generic entities with no real identity or unique culture which means theres no conflict brewing there, all of the major leadership figures know each other so no personal hate exists to set off wars.

    Theres plenty of space to go around; some of it is great, some of it is pretty good; the difference however isnt worth waging war over. Not to mention that conquering new space under the citadel system would mean destroying all your expensive infrastructure rigs and moving into a region where you've destroyed all existing infrastructure requiring shitloads of money to rebuild it.

    Since going on deployment as an alliance is easy boredom isnt really a reason to fight/invade nearby regions, its much easier to create a blue blob to keep your space safe and to deploy to the other end of eve for non-committal fun time PVP.

    Without a major group moving into eve like goons did during the BOB era or CCP figuring out a way to force conflict between nullsec alliances nothing much is going to change. Neither of these options are terribly realistic so null-sec will continue to stagnate.

    Edit: Also the current sov system is actually reasonably fun if done right, certainly a lot more fun then all the systems we've had before. Spreading the fight out across systems adds a lot of opportunity for smaller scale pewpew either alongside of a larger battle or as a replacement. Coordinating multiple squads across a constellation to try and maintain control of the nodes while defenders are doing the same thing during some of the WWB fights have been among the most interesting battles i've had in eve in the last few years.

    Unfortunately stupid shit like nullified ceptor blobs and capital ship entosising tends to force the system back into full tidi blobbing single fleet boredom.
    I mean we just got done with a massive great war, with several consequent smaller but still quite significant wars (Tribute eviction followed by Stainwagon eviction, not to mention literally a fucking year of brushfire war in Syndicate/Cloud Ring, and months of conflict in Angelspace). There's now a pause, as is traditional in summer, but in 6-8 weeks it'll start hotting up again like it always does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  4. #7184
    Armyofme's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Hull Breach
    Posts
    1,210
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Even now, in 2017, people blaming the sov system. Who's old enough to recall essentially identical conversations about Dominion sov or Kali sov?
    Meh, the two of us have played so long we can remember all sovs and the whines that followed

    phpBB : Critical Error
    Could not connect to the database

  5. #7185
    Keckers's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 31, 2012
    Posts
    13,506
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    I mean we just got done with a massive great war, with several consequent smaller but still quite significant wars (Tribute eviction followed by Stainwagon eviction, not to mention literally a fucking year of brushfire war in Syndicate/Cloud Ring, and months of conflict in Angelspace). There's now a pause, as is traditional in summer, but in 6-8 weeks it'll start hotting up again like it always does.
    Surely the purpose of war in eve is to create stories?

    Literally nothing interesting in eve has happened since goons got kicked out of the north and even that wan't very interesting due to the nature of the conflict. The Halloween war is probably the last war where some decent stories occurred.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  6. #7186
    Donor Verite Rendition's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    3,841
    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Even now, in 2017, people blaming the sov system. Who's old enough to recall essentially identical conversations about Dominion sov or Kali sov?
    Meh, the two of us have played so long we can remember all sovs and the whines that followed
    We could always go back to station ping-pong.
    Tranquility (EVE) Influence Map
    Life is absurd, but with a little effort we can make it completely ridiculous

  7. #7187
    dzajic's Avatar
    Join Date
    June 15, 2011
    Posts
    3,218
    Is EVE dead yet?

  8. #7188
    CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 25, 2011
    Location
    Matari Exodus
    Posts
    788
    Quote Originally Posted by dzajic View Post
    Is EVE dead yet?
    It's either dying or a teenage boy. Can't really tell the difference.

  9. #7189
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 7, 2012
    Posts
    20,805
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Coming soon(tm): Napoleontic Warfare. Oh wait ....
    Oh wow. Cathcing up on [url]http://mil.no/sites/default/files/image2.jpg[/img] soon.

  10. #7190
    iLOL's Avatar
    Join Date
    November 9, 2011
    Posts
    956
    Quote Originally Posted by Verite Rendition View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Armyofme View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Even now, in 2017, people blaming the sov system. Who's old enough to recall essentially identical conversations about Dominion sov or Kali sov?
    Meh, the two of us have played so long we can remember all sovs and the whines that followed
    We could always go back to station ping-pong.
    Dear God No. Still waiting for the Sov To End All Sov, though.

  11. #7191
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    13,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    I mean we just got done with a massive great war, with several consequent smaller but still quite significant wars (Tribute eviction followed by Stainwagon eviction, not to mention literally a fucking year of brushfire war in Syndicate/Cloud Ring, and months of conflict in Angelspace). There's now a pause, as is traditional in summer, but in 6-8 weeks it'll start hotting up again like it always does.
    Surely the purpose of war in eve is to create stories?

    Literally nothing interesting in eve has happened since goons got kicked out of the north and even that wan't very interesting due to the nature of the conflict. The Halloween war is probably the last war where some decent stories occurred.
    Yeah actually that aint true. I participated in a bunch of very good stories since WWB ended, tyvm. Some of them tragedies, some of the farces, most of them pretty fucking epic for me. Sorry you weren't part of them*, but that doesn't mean they didn't happen. And there were a load of conflicts that I had nothing to do with in which I am sure the people who fought them will tell you that they did cool things too.

    God, I have lost patience with people comparing every fucking month in EVE with the height of the great war. That was a couple-of-times-a-decade event. Most EVE wars involve 2-4 participant organisations, and that's the way it has always been - there are only a few outlier exceptions that nostalgia and confirmation bias are compressing into some false narrative of continuous amazeballs WE ARE SPARTA pan-cluster warfare. Even during the great war, the large majority of the sov map wasn't involved in actual fighting at any given time.


    *VANIS is recruiting!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  12. #7192

    Join Date
    December 30, 2013
    Location
    Rolled Out
    Posts
    146
    I too remember the great end of Dominion war when PL said they were invading GOTG. And the one before that when PL said they were invading Nulli, and NC. said go right ahead. Those were awesome wars where one target went afk for 3 months, and the other cascaded. Bring that shit back ASAP.

  13. #7193
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,996
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post

    Yeah actually that aint true. I participated in a bunch of very good stories since WWB ended, tyvm. Some of them tragedies, some of the farces, most of them pretty fucking epic for me.

    *VANIS is recruiting!
    Indeed. That type of storytelling is still quite strong.

    But your emphasis is actually relevant for that other type of storytelling, or more correctly, for the distinction between the types that maintain community behaviour versus grow it.

    Inward bound, outward bound.


    Regardless of types of sov or people still stuck in past tense :P There's one difference which has grown along with the changes over the recent years. Granted, it's a bit of a case of lesser of evils. When grand warfare was complete diarrhea the outward bound narratives didn't exactly do EVE good. Not by a long shot. So a focus on inward bound storytelling (hello Falcon) *was* understandable and did manage to curb a few rather negative trends. But EVE requires that other type even more so.

    Now that a status quo in development and venture focus has been reached, that's really the one thing CCP should consider more than anything else. As much as some people still think EVE sucks monkeyballs and CCP is just out for the shiny, it really isn't that bad. Sure, lower resource allocation, sure extended views on mt and sure, a more mechanical approach and less room for emergent behaviour. But it's better than it's been for years. Even without Alpha's in the mix.

    It's just that the stories generated are fun / epic / huzzah for those inside a dynamic, rarely between the conflicting dynamics, and virtually never spilling beyond the boundaries of eve's community networks. This generates a lot less pull, quite a bit less incentive to move between internal demographics, etc. There's less rub, thus less meaning in conflicts, etc.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  14. #7194
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    13,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post

    Yeah actually that aint true. I participated in a bunch of very good stories since WWB ended, tyvm. Some of them tragedies, some of the farces, most of them pretty fucking epic for me.

    *VANIS is recruiting!
    Indeed. That type of storytelling is still quite strong.

    But your emphasis is actually relevant for that other type of storytelling, or more correctly, for the distinction between the types that maintain community behaviour versus grow it.

    Inward bound, outward bound.


    Regardless of types of sov or people still stuck in past tense :P There's one difference which has grown along with the changes over the recent years. Granted, it's a bit of a case of lesser of evils. When grand warfare was complete diarrhea the outward bound narratives didn't exactly do EVE good. Not by a long shot. So a focus on inward bound storytelling (hello Falcon) *was* understandable and did manage to curb a few rather negative trends. But EVE requires that other type even more so.

    Now that a status quo in development and venture focus has been reached, that's really the one thing CCP should consider more than anything else. As much as some people still think EVE sucks monkeyballs and CCP is just out for the shiny, it really isn't that bad. Sure, lower resource allocation, sure extended views on mt and sure, a more mechanical approach and less room for emergent behaviour. But it's better than it's been for years. Even without Alpha's in the mix.

    It's just that the stories generated are fun / epic / huzzah for those inside a dynamic, rarely between the conflicting dynamics, and virtually never spilling beyond the boundaries of eve's community networks. This generates a lot less pull, quite a bit less incentive to move between internal demographics, etc. There's less rub, thus less meaning in conflicts, etc.
    So basically the complaining here is - very appropriately for FHC, I might note - not that spaceviolence isn't happening, but that "the community" isn't telling stories about it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  15. #7195
    Marlona Sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    7,328
    CCP needs to figure out a way to remove as much peaceful diplomacy from the game as possible. Anything that helps peace be sustainable needs a hard review. There is dozens of little things they can do to rock the peace boat a bit, and they are not major work to do it. Well, at least I'm thinking it won't. I'm not a coder or any of that black magic stuff people do.

  16. #7196
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    13,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    CCP needs to figure out a way to remove as much peaceful diplomacy from the game as possible. Anything that helps peace be sustainable needs a hard review. There is dozens of little things they can do to rock the peace boat a bit, and they are not major work to do it. Well, at least I'm thinking it won't. I'm not a coder or any of that black magic stuff people do.

    That's explicitly not CCP's job. It's ours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  17. #7197
    Fara's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    1,641
    Peaceful diplomacy isn't the problem. The problem is reasons to fight and effort required for those fights. It's a constant balance act since ever, but personally I feel like they've implemented a lot of counterproductive mechanics in the last few years to incentivize conflict. Some good things, some bad things.. unfortunately more bad than good imho.

    IDK if its responsible for the lowtime right now, but it's not gonna help to incentivize future conflict tbh. If I look at the most fun fights I had, long before I joined INIT/PL it was over medium-high moons that our ~20man BS fleets fought against similarly sized BS fleets that didn't use their carriers on us because they've been dropped recently by Cry Havoc or SOT or whoever else had a lot of caps at the time. Owning that moon was significant for our small group, and because we were local we had no problem reffing towers every day with AFK battleships. Eventually bigger entities like huzzah and PL lost interest and just condeded the moons, and thus ensued fights from local smaller entities.


    It's sad when just mechanicaly that fight probably wouldn't happen today anymore
    Last edited by Fara; June 27 2017 at 12:24:09 PM.

  18. #7198
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,996
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post

    Yeah actually that aint true. I participated in a bunch of very good stories since WWB ended, tyvm. Some of them tragedies, some of the farces, most of them pretty fucking epic for me.

    *VANIS is recruiting!
    Indeed. That type of storytelling is still quite strong.

    But your emphasis is actually relevant for that other type of storytelling, or more correctly, for the distinction between the types that maintain community behaviour versus grow it.

    Inward bound, outward bound.


    Regardless of types of sov or people still stuck in past tense :P There's one difference which has grown along with the changes over the recent years. Granted, it's a bit of a case of lesser of evils. When grand warfare was complete diarrhea the outward bound narratives didn't exactly do EVE good. Not by a long shot. So a focus on inward bound storytelling (hello Falcon) *was* understandable and did manage to curb a few rather negative trends. But EVE requires that other type even more so.

    Now that a status quo in development and venture focus has been reached, that's really the one thing CCP should consider more than anything else. As much as some people still think EVE sucks monkeyballs and CCP is just out for the shiny, it really isn't that bad. Sure, lower resource allocation, sure extended views on mt and sure, a more mechanical approach and less room for emergent behaviour. But it's better than it's been for years. Even without Alpha's in the mix.

    It's just that the stories generated are fun / epic / huzzah for those inside a dynamic, rarely between the conflicting dynamics, and virtually never spilling beyond the boundaries of eve's community networks. This generates a lot less pull, quite a bit less incentive to move between internal demographics, etc. There's less rub, thus less meaning in conflicts, etc.
    So basically the complaining here is - very appropriately for FHC, I might note - not that spaceviolence isn't happening, but that "the community" isn't telling stories about it?
    Not complaining. After all *fun* is happening, right?

    Yet indeed, there's nothing really anymore that makes people want to share stories 1) across boundaries of their respective communities and 2) beyond eve the game.

    1. Really is a concern. To keep it simple, you want people rubbing against each other, mixing & mingling. Cause this enhances stories, but it also pisses people off. EVE *works* in a larger sense exactly because of the very same pressure dynamics of real world social demopgraphics and geo-economics. All those people whining about how there isn't anything that generates conflict is almost hilarious, because there is plenty which instigates it. The real issue is that there's no pressure behind those stimuli. Pretty much because everything is economics of scale, everything is calculable, there's zero entropy.

    2. Is a growing concern. CCP does an impressive amount of advertising, yet this has never been able to compete with the impact of storytelling spilling over the bin, so to speak. For several years what did spill was, well, shitty at best. Now it's just quiet. Neither is good. Advertising and marketing has increased, yet it's been the Alpha concept which lured in a spike, there's still nothing spilling over aside of tidbits of seeking planets by looking at something resembling bacteria. Everything you see from CCP's community management and marketing is focused on inward focused or bound messaging. Part of the job, but less than half of the job. Players just sit around chewing things over, anything encroaching is tackled, but at night by the campfire nobody talks except at their own campfire.


    It isn't surprising btw. The older people get the more inward their views go. In the real world isolationism is a pattern reinforcing itself as well. It's a giant basket of irony that EVE as a petri dish of behavioural psychology reflects this. The more CCP emphasise a mechanical approach to world building and content generation, the worse that will get. Coupled with the rather well known issues like wealth concentration, shiny junkies and the minority ending up generating the majority of cashflow that presents a challenge. And this at a time where CCP wants to do other stuff. History repeats itself :P

    None of this gets in the way of fun, but it does undermine the potential to maintain opportunities for fun in the medium to long term. The underlying issue is that this isn't a linear curve. It's the kind of thing where you wake up to effects well before the statistics signal the consequences.

    As always it comes down to the relationship between CCP and its customers. As long as CCP maintains its tendency to seperate itself from the dynamic the mechanical design focus will continue, as long as players just stick to their own turf CCP will not be able to figure out the risk of staleness.


    I just see it as a waste of opportunities. EVE's grown quite nicely, stabilised itself, revamped itself. It isn't shit anymore. But it also isn't drama any longer. All the potential is negated without pressure.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
    Now all that is left is serious business, and spaceships are docked for two years till after the Dust of Incarna
    .

  19. #7199

    Join Date
    December 30, 2013
    Location
    Rolled Out
    Posts
    146
    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Peaceful diplomacy isn't the problem. The problem is reasons to fight and effort required for those fights. It's a constant balance act since ever, but personally I feel like they've implemented a lot of counterproductive mechanics in the last few years to incentivize conflict. Some good things, some bad things.. unfortunately more bad than good imho.

    IDK if its responsible for the lowtime right now, but it's not gonna help to incentivize future conflict tbh. If I look at the most fun fights I had, long before I joined INIT/PL it was over medium-high moons that our ~20man BS fleets fought against similarly sized BS fleets that didn't use their carriers on us because they've been dropped recently by Cry Havoc or SOT or whoever else had a lot of caps at the time. Owning that moon was significant for our small group, and because we were local we had no problem reffing towers every day with AFK battleships. Eventually bigger entities like huzzah and PL lost interest and just condeded the moons, and thus ensued fights from local smaller entities.


    It's sad when just mechanicaly that fight probably wouldn't happen today anymore
    You know what happens when a medium-high moon gets RFed by a small group? The large group that owns it, who already is 3-4 times the size of the small group, calls in anyone they can to protect it, and no content happens, or there is a 2k pilot fight over a 500m/month moon. We have lower login numbers than the "glory days", but I bet every major alliance is 1.5-2 times, or more, the size than they were back then. There is no place in EVE for the "little guy". That isn't because of mechanics, it is because of human nature, jabber, skype, slack, discord, etc.

  20. #7200
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    13,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    Peaceful diplomacy isn't the problem. The problem is reasons to fight and effort required for those fights. It's a constant balance act since ever, but personally I feel like they've implemented a lot of counterproductive mechanics in the last few years to incentivize conflict. Some good things, some bad things.. unfortunately more bad than good imho.

    IDK if its responsible for the lowtime right now, but it's not gonna help to incentivize future conflict tbh. If I look at the most fun fights I had, long before I joined INIT/PL it was over medium-high moons that our ~20man BS fleets fought against similarly sized BS fleets that didn't use their carriers on us because they've been dropped recently by Cry Havoc or SOT or whoever else had a lot of caps at the time. Owning that moon was significant for our small group, and because we were local we had no problem reffing towers every day with AFK battleships. Eventually bigger entities like huzzah and PL lost interest and just condeded the moons, and thus ensued fights from local smaller entities.


    It's sad when just mechanicaly that fight probably wouldn't happen today anymore
    Big wars have happened under the current system, ergo they can happen. The issue is that everyone wants some other dumb cunts to be the one who feed a single alliances worth of fleet into their coalition meatgrinder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •