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Thread: The Shitposting Thread

  1. #7701
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Because the 16 hour slideshows are the thing that makes eve fun and enjoyable and people gladly pay for a year of game time for multiple alts to take part in the one fight per year.
    For what % of the player base though? Enough to keep the lights on and the servers running?

    edit: hang on I can't tell if this post is dripping in sarcasm or not...
    I voted sarcasm.

    Does it say something that our sarcasm detectors are having issues?


  2. #7702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Because the 16 hour slideshows are the thing that makes eve fun and enjoyable and people gladly pay for a year of game time for multiple alts to take part in the one fight per year.
    For what % of the player base though? Enough to keep the lights on and the servers running?

    edit: hang on I can't tell if this post is dripping in sarcasm or not...
    I voted sarcasm.

    Does it say something that our sarcasm detectors are having issues?
    It says something about how I remember eve players
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  3. #7703

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    Because gamers, free or sub, will play engaging entertaining lore-filled space ship content if even a modicrum of development effort goes into it. EVE PvE has been stagnant for a decade, especially in High-Sec. Casual content, engaging PvE, and at least some area where players can play and be safe from grief/PvP is a mandatory part of an any workable MMO Universe.
    You reeeeallly dont like griefers, i get it, chill.

    What i dont understand - how is banning "griefing in highsec" per se going to magically improve what shitty PvE EVE has?

  4. #7704

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    The user base is toxic because the game has consistently been developed to cater to the most toxic people possible.

    Lets be honest, EVE is not, nor has it ever, been an open, welcoming game. It COULD have been, and could be still. But it's not.

    What these toxic folks keep forgetting (or simply don't understand) is that their way will always be an exceptionally limited niche.

    But they could have their way, and more of it, if the game itself catered more to the general player, the more casual gamer. Some of them would inevitably join the "endgame".

    But to have the kind of population EVE needs to thrive, it needs a robust, enjoyable, PvE experience. And one where players can opt out of PvP if they so wish, within limits.

    The PvE content I leave to others, but the "avoid PvP' is I think easy. Contract high-sec, and ban non consensual PvP in High Sec.

    EVE's toxic players would scream bloody murder, but so what.

    High-Sec Wars could still occur, but would need to be mutual.

    Low-Sec, still Free For all with NPC intervention.

    Null is Null.

    Players who truly just want to play spaceships vs. bots and PvE would have what they always wanted, but at the greatly reduced rewards of High-Sec. No griefing, no getting Decc'd by huge Alliances looking to grief, no more stupid high-sec tricks by toxic dicks who get off on one-sided griefing.

    But they're gameplay isn't gone. They'd simply have to do it where the sheep might fight back, in low-sec. As legit pirates.

    EVE's biggest mistake was catering High-Sec not to PvE players, but to griefers. It's limited EVE since day one, and always will.

    High-Sec should be all about PvE, Lore, and farming player population for the game. Thats it. Low and Null can be all about the rest.

    But it'll never happen, and EVE will continue to decline and distill down to even less the rather empty experience it is now.
    I think this is probably the best path left to try right now. Everyone here started in the cold harsh version of EVE and couldn't imagine anything else, but we are the clear minority. If what you want is growth (and that isn't necessarily a requirement for longevity, but it sure helps) you have to cater to the rest too. Most of us never spend time in high-sec anyway, so it wouldn't really affect our gameplay, and the Theme Park-gamers can have their playground while still being part of a bigger whole, should they so choose.

    It would take a serious overhaul on the PvE side, though. More storyline, more group content and harder, more realistic "PvP" AI is probably on everyone's wish-list. They have a decent track-record with lore building and integration with the game (the Scope news were brilliant!), but we need better consistency over time. What is the deal with Incursions still? Are the Faction Wars going to have storyline consequences? So many good setups are left hanging.

    I am not a RPer in EVE, but that aspect was something I considered when I started out, having played lots of pen-and-paper games in my youth. Since all the other Sci-Fi MMOs tend to implode in publisher-related incidents, what CCP has here is actually a creative gold-mine that is not license-bound to anything. It just feels like this has been squandered and that probably hurts with the group of gamers who are not in the psychopath category we all originated from.

  5. #7705

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    Why choose eve with its shitshow of PvE over a proper themepark?
    WoW is still p. good and so much ahead in terms of, you know, PvE gameplay its not even funny.

  6. #7706

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Because the 16 hour slideshows are the thing that makes eve fun and enjoyable and people gladly pay for a year of game time for multiple alts to take part in the one fight per year.
    For what % of the player base though? Enough to keep the lights on and the servers running?

    edit: hang on I can't tell if this post is dripping in sarcasm or not...
    I voted sarcasm.

    Does it say something that our sarcasm detectors are having issues?
    And I haven't even played for years, only occasionally trolling eve general. And the reactions alone tell me everything about the state of eve, no going back there.

  7. #7707
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas Quaan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    The user base is toxic because the game has consistently been developed to cater to the most toxic people possible.

    Lets be honest, EVE is not, nor has it ever, been an open, welcoming game. It COULD have been, and could be still. But it's not.

    What these toxic folks keep forgetting (or simply don't understand) is that their way will always be an exceptionally limited niche.

    But they could have their way, and more of it, if the game itself catered more to the general player, the more casual gamer. Some of them would inevitably join the "endgame".

    But to have the kind of population EVE needs to thrive, it needs a robust, enjoyable, PvE experience. And one where players can opt out of PvP if they so wish, within limits.

    The PvE content I leave to others, but the "avoid PvP' is I think easy. Contract high-sec, and ban non consensual PvP in High Sec.

    EVE's toxic players would scream bloody murder, but so what.

    High-Sec Wars could still occur, but would need to be mutual.

    Low-Sec, still Free For all with NPC intervention.

    Null is Null.

    Players who truly just want to play spaceships vs. bots and PvE would have what they always wanted, but at the greatly reduced rewards of High-Sec. No griefing, no getting Decc'd by huge Alliances looking to grief, no more stupid high-sec tricks by toxic dicks who get off on one-sided griefing.

    But they're gameplay isn't gone. They'd simply have to do it where the sheep might fight back, in low-sec. As legit pirates.

    EVE's biggest mistake was catering High-Sec not to PvE players, but to griefers. It's limited EVE since day one, and always will.

    High-Sec should be all about PvE, Lore, and farming player population for the game. Thats it. Low and Null can be all about the rest.

    But it'll never happen, and EVE will continue to decline and distill down to even less the rather empty experience it is now.
    I think this is probably the best path left to try right now. Everyone here started in the cold harsh version of EVE and couldn't imagine anything else, but we are the clear minority. If what you want is growth (and that isn't necessarily a requirement for longevity, but it sure helps) you have to cater to the rest too. Most of us never spend time in high-sec anyway, so it wouldn't really affect our gameplay, and the Theme Park-gamers can have their playground while still being part of a bigger whole, should they so choose.

    It would take a serious overhaul on the PvE side, though. More storyline, more group content and harder, more realistic "PvP" AI is probably on everyone's wish-list. They have a decent track-record with lore building and integration with the game (the Scope news were brilliant!), but we need better consistency over time. What is the deal with Incursions still? Are the Faction Wars going to have storyline consequences? So many good setups are left hanging.

    I am not a RPer in EVE, but that aspect was something I considered when I started out, having played lots of pen-and-paper games in my youth. Since all the other Sci-Fi MMOs tend to implode in publisher-related incidents, what CCP has here is actually a creative gold-mine that is not license-bound to anything. It just feels like this has been squandered and that probably hurts with the group of gamers who are not in the psychopath category we all originated from.
    +1

    Route to EVE Success:

    --Eliminate Non-Consensual PvP in Empire High-Sec Space, While Contracting (reducing) Empire High-Sec 3 of Systems. Lore: The Empires are cracking down in a desperate bid to retain their power, and no longer allow combat between Capsuleers in High-Security Space. Mutual High-Sec Wars remain permitted. Griefing in High-Sec eliminated. Larger groups literally forcing small kitten groups to mass desub via eve-stalking war decs and griefing eliminated, a damn good thing and long overdue. High-Sec becomes what it should have always been, a safe spot to farm PvE content, and for defeated groups from Low or Null to regoup, rebuild, and go after Low or Null again when ready.

    --As part of above, NEW CONTENT: Empire Space Patrols. Players with Low sec Status and Rep can shoot these patrols, but shooting them gradually escalates (i.e. shoot an Amarr Frigate in Amaarr space, two Cruisers may spawn/warp in to assist). Solo/Small Group intended lore-driven Content. Would let RP pirates be pirates in High-sec without having to grief players.

    --Total overhaul of Mission System and Mission Rewards/Rep Stores. More missions, better AI, closer to PvP if possible. Loot drops and RP Stores get massive influx, corporations get special hull/graphics ships only available there, new corp. specific modules (with very slight increases obsessive PvE'ers will lust over but will have minimal effect on PvP). Solo content (level I-IV), group Content (level V-X).

    --More stuff in Space with More Stuff to shoot/mine/interact with. I leave it to game designers to come up with the why/how.

    --Bring back the Lore. More Scope. More GM driven events. More change as the story progresses. More mysteries (folks loved that shit back in the day, what was the hidden story behind sleepers, odd new structures, etc). Very underutilized.

    Lets be clear, this is NOT hard, it's just manpower intensive. EVE needs more Mission writers, more graphic artists (and a MUCH faster process) for new ship hull designs (again, with either no or a VERY incremental, PvE focused benefits) and Corp-Loyalty Point store content (LP stores are such wasted things, but such a great concept!). Peopekl will mission whore like hell to get that special swor....er, ship hull. Hell, thats the entire point of Warcraft, to farm the sexiest sword. You think PvE'ers wouldn't do that for special "Ammatar Fleet Gold Armored Rifter" hulls? Sure they would! Adjust prices so frigates and such can be obtained cheaply, to encourage players to maybe, just maybe, fly those ships and lose them since the cost (in PvE terms) is reasonable.

    CCP have basically devolved to "we don't have to do anything, or write anything, or create anything, because all that matters is Null and the story the players will write, slowly, during lagfest 10% massive "fights"". And the results show, the niche game is slowly dying a niche death. EVE lacks the PvE backbone and limtied safe-space it desperately needs.

    Revamp PvE and High-Sec as above, and you can save it. And you can still make Low-Sec and Null as dangerous and lawless as you like. The only loser here are the dedicated high-sec kitten torturing griefers.
    Last edited by Alistair; January 30 2018 at 03:24:05 PM.


  8. #7708
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    I honestly don't think non-consensual pvp is a problem for players, it's pretty well advertised.

    It's the complete shitshow that is Eve's end game at the moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  9. #7709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    The user base is toxic because the game has consistently been developed to cater to the most toxic people possible.
    Sorry to just grab that one sentence, but I actually have never experienced the user base as toxic. To the contrary I can't remember that I ever felt insulted or something like that by another player, especially when chatting to them in local or convos.

    Rarely comms might get a bit loud because every one of us knows best how to fit out doctrine x to do y or someone accidently misinterpreted the order "kill the pod" as "kill the fc's pod" (we have a recording of that), but I've yelled at other people while playing Monopoly aplenty irl.

    The only player I remember that ever told me that I am shit in Eve and should consider to commit suicide or something along those lines was Gneeznow in some lowsec system around Providence around 2008 or 2009. And I will have my revenge for that some day!

    So, why is the user base considered toxic? It's all a matter of what goes around, comes around imo.

  10. #7710

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    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    Why choose eve with its shitshow of PvE over a proper themepark?
    WoW is still p. good and so much ahead in terms of, you know, PvE gameplay its not even funny.
    Which is why any bid for expanding the playerbase (again, not that we necessarily need it) would have to start with a big overhaul in that area.

    Personally, I'm perfectly fine with EVE staying as it is right now. My playstyle has plenty of content in both null and low-sec and, if anything, I would actually like to see slightly fewer people show up to fights. I'm just conceding that the way for EVE to grow would probably be catering to a different demographic and if they can do so without affecting me I'm fine with that.

  11. #7711
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiDiYi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    The user base is toxic because the game has consistently been developed to cater to the most toxic people possible.
    Sorry to just grab that one sentence, but I actually have never experienced the user base as toxic. To the contrary I can't remember that I ever felt insulted or something like that by another player, especially when chatting to them in local or convos.

    Rarely comms might get a bit loud because every one of us knows best how to fit out doctrine x to do y or someone accidently misinterpreted the order "kill the pod" as "kill the fc's pod" (we have a recording of that), but I've yelled at other people while playing Monopoly aplenty irl.

    The only player I remember that ever told me that I am shit in Eve and should consider to commit suicide or something along those lines was Gneeznow in some lowsec system around Providence around 2008 or 2009. And I will have my revenge for that some day!

    So, why is the user base considered toxic? It's all a matter of what goes around, comes around imo.
    The perception among some is that the userbase is toxic.

    I don't think this is a problem particularly since CS:GO, LoL and DOTA get the same accusation thrown at them.

    Eve seeming to be a second job is probably a bigger problem for CCP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  12. #7712
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    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    Because gamers, free or sub, will play engaging entertaining lore-filled space ship content if even a modicrum of development effort goes into it. EVE PvE has been stagnant for a decade, especially in High-Sec. Casual content, engaging PvE, and at least some area where players can play and be safe from grief/PvP is a mandatory part of an any workable MMO Universe.
    You reeeeallly dont like griefers, i get it, chill.

    What i dont understand - how is banning "griefing in highsec" per se going to magically improve what shitty PvE EVE has?
    I think High-Sec griefers (and scammers) are a negative pressure to the population of the game, and I'd be surprised if anyone actually felt otherwise.

    To answer your question, it does nothing to improve PvE. It only improved the gameplay experience for new players, dedicated PvE players, and those not looking to be griefer or killed without consent.

    Alone, it would help. But it really should be paired with the aforementioned massive overhaul/upgrade to PvE content and PvE specific rewards.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiDiYi View Post
    Sorry to just grab that one sentence, but I actually have never experienced the user base as toxic.
    Not even sure how to respond to this. You must live in a very insulated bubble in EVE to make this claim. A hour in Jita should cure you of that.

    EVE is infamous for being one of the least welcoming, least friendly, least new-player friendly games ever made. A large part of that is the community and the population whose highest form of joy is murdering helpless baby kittens and farming their frustration, anger and sorry before they de-sub and tell all their friends exactly how shit EVE really is.

    I've lived my entire EVE life in Null. Sure, my Null mates were always great, our rivals were great. But it took me three goes at EVE to get past the "EVE is a shithole filled with hateful murderous antisocial dicks" entry-level phase, and I'm not a rare case.

    You can retain most of what EVE is, but to grow the population, and keep the game alive, you need to give other play styles what they need to thrive too.
    Last edited by Alistair; January 30 2018 at 05:20:38 PM.


  13. #7713
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    Dedicated pve players are clearly mental.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.

  14. #7714
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by n0th View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    Because gamers, free or sub, will play engaging entertaining lore-filled space ship content if even a modicrum of development effort goes into it. EVE PvE has been stagnant for a decade, especially in High-Sec. Casual content, engaging PvE, and at least some area where players can play and be safe from grief/PvP is a mandatory part of an any workable MMO Universe.
    You reeeeallly dont like griefers, i get it, chill.

    What i dont understand - how is banning "griefing in highsec" per se going to magically improve what shitty PvE EVE has?
    I think High-Sec griefers (and scammers) are a negative pressure to the population of the game, and I'd be surprised if anyone actually felt otherwise.

    To answer your question, it does nothing to improve PvE. It only improved the gameplay experience for new players, dedicated PvE players, and those not looking to be griefer or killed without consent.

    Alone, it would help. But it really should be paired with the aforementioned massive overhaul/upgrade to PvE content and PvE specific rewards.

    Quote Originally Posted by GiDiYi View Post
    Sorry to just grab that one sentence, but I actually have never experienced the user base as toxic.
    Not even sure how to respond to this. You must live in a very insulated bubble in EVE to make this claim. A hour in Jita should cure you of that.

    EVE is infamous for being one of the least welcoming, least friendly, least new-player friendly games ever made. A large part of that is the community and the population whose highest form of joy is murdering helpless baby kittens and farming their frustration, anger and sorry before they de-sub and tell all their friends exactly how shit EVE really is.

    I've lived my entire EVE life in Null. Sure, my Null mates were always great, our rivals were great. But it took me three goes at EVE to get past the "EVE is a shithole filled with hateful murderous antisocial dicks" entry-level phase, and I'm not a rare case.

    You can retain most of what EVE is, but to grow the population, and keep the game alive, you need to give other play styles what they need to thrive too.
    Pfffrt hisec griefers, the real issue are

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  15. #7715

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiDiYi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    The user base is toxic because the game has consistently been developed to cater to the most toxic people possible.
    Sorry to just grab that one sentence, but I actually have never experienced the user base as toxic. To the contrary I can't remember that I ever felt insulted or something like that by another player, especially when chatting to them in local or convos.

    Rarely comms might get a bit loud because every one of us knows best how to fit out doctrine x to do y or someone accidently misinterpreted the order "kill the pod" as "kill the fc's pod" (we have a recording of that), but I've yelled at other people while playing Monopoly aplenty irl.

    The only player I remember that ever told me that I am shit in Eve and should consider to commit suicide or something along those lines was Gneeznow in some lowsec system around Providence around 2008 or 2009. And I will have my revenge for that some day!

    So, why is the user base considered toxic? It's all a matter of what goes around, comes around imo.
    Gneeznow doesn't play anymore. RIP laser Ferox.

    Now bad@botes

  16. #7716
    Super Everator Global Moderator Virtuozzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiDiYi View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    The user base is toxic because the game has consistently been developed to cater to the most toxic people possible.
    Sorry to just grab that one sentence, but I actually have never experienced the user base as toxic. To the contrary I can't remember that I ever felt insulted or something like that by another player, especially when chatting to them in local or convos.

    Rarely comms might get a bit loud because every one of us knows best how to fit out doctrine x to do y or someone accidently misinterpreted the order "kill the pod" as "kill the fc's pod" (we have a recording of that), but I've yelled at other people while playing Monopoly aplenty irl.

    The only player I remember that ever told me that I am shit in Eve and should consider to commit suicide or something along those lines was Gneeznow in some lowsec system around Providence around 2008 or 2009. And I will have my revenge for that some day!

    So, why is the user base considered toxic? It's all a matter of what goes around, comes around imo.
    Cause the ones who gain the most visibility are either the actually toxic ones or gain said visibility riding toxicity applied to select targets. Plain and simple.


    Don't forget that EVE is basically Iceland, it's just a village and an island. Most people do their own thing being basically human (or sheep, big part of it - thank god iceland isn't ireland or that would get awkward), some people do their thing being basic humans. What people see the most is seen as the state of things.

    Kinda funny that it took CCP a decade to figure out that the reality did not match established perception. Kinda sad that they wasted most of that decade and stupid amounts of resources trying to push toxicity as the engine of growth until it bit them in the ass because they'd forgotten that they too were on the island. Only distinct customer types / categories these days remain stuck in flawed perception.
    J'ai violé votre vaisseau spatial. C'était amusant....!

    EVE once was about internet spaceships. Then those became serious business.
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  17. #7717
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlona Sky View Post
    CCP was on the right path with Phoebe and slowing down how fast ships can transverse the map depending on size and firepower. Then for reasons that still baffle me, they did a complete 180 with how long it takes to kill citadels. So this will still be true:

      Spoiler:
    Whiney null-sec babies is the reason why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Fuck griefer shitbags who won't play EVE without High-Sec griefing being allowed. Want to cater your game to that scum sucking bagful of online kitten torturers, well, you get what you get, a shitty EVE with a dwindling playerbase and shutdown in it's future.
    The same people who whine about griefers are the same people who will kill Eve Online, they should not be listened to whatsoever and should instead just leave the game and go play [Insert Kid Friendly MMO here], because
    really they do not GET EVE Online and I would be surprised if they ever will.
    Last edited by Meester; January 31 2018 at 04:13:21 AM.

  18. #7718
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meester View Post
    The same people who whine about griefers are the same people who will kill Eve Online, they should not be listened to whatsoever and should instead just leave the game and go play [Insert Kid Friendly MMO here], because
    really they do not GET EVE Online and I would be surprised if they ever will.
    "Your thoughts don't count" is probably the single worst mindset that can occur in a community. People are putting their time and energy into the game and the community, which is what gives the community life. Even if we don't always agree with their viewpoints, if people are having a serious go of it (and aren't just trolling) then it's important that we listen to them and include them.

    Otherwise if we tell them to leave they will. And then the next group will get shut out and told to leave.
    Last edited by Verite Rendition; January 31 2018 at 11:41:56 AM.
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  19. #7719

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    You can retain most of what EVE is, but to grow the population, and keep the game alive, you need to give other play styles what they need to thrive too.
    To clarify my point here: going from "godawful PvE even by 2003 standards" to "sorta kinda up-to-par PvE" isnt going to attract a lot of new players compared to how much developmental effort has to be put in.

    CCP has done a pretty sensible thing from a business/ROI standpoint - they've introduced industry standard f2p bullshit (skins, daily injectors) as well as a relatively low-effort bandaid to have PvE look up-to-par to a newbie familiar with themepark MMOs (Agency aka. dailies).

    My argument is pretty much that there is nothing CCP can really do to attract a significant amount of new players.

    Sure, fixing the obvious citadel bullshit would be nice.
    I obv. completely disagree on your "highsec 100% safe" view, but CCP could technically do that p. easily, since security switches are already implemented.
    And so on.

    However what has always driven this game were content-creaters from the player base, working with whatever mechanics/balance etc. CCP has thrown at them. And there are no new ones, because most potential tryhard nerds who would learn to FC etc. rather play competitive PUBG or Overwatch or some MOBA or whatever else is hype now (hint: a 15 year old MMO isnt).

    Short thought experiment:

    TQ has something like 30k concurrent players during EU prime, thats maybe 50k over the course of an EU evening? Lets say 5% of that would roam around solo or in gangs of anywhere from 2-50 in engageable shit trying to get a GF, because CCP would manage to provide a proper additional incentive to do so. Think of something dumb, like a GM in every active system that would gift participants of a legit GF some fancy limited SKIN and an ingame title (i know, i know).

    Word gets around that undocking is actually fun and spaceship action is right around the corner, more players participate, players come out of retirement to try it, new people sub etc.

    And CCP even tries this kind of thing with the temporary event plexes, and it does work every time for a couple of days.
    Last edited by n0th; January 31 2018 at 10:02:32 AM.

  20. #7720

    Join Date
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    Last (AFAIK) event were the ones where it all ended by running hisec bears through 20-odd 90% tidi jumps in hisec and then into a major 0.0 staging system to reach a interactive event plex, where the about 10 null players that actually got there then won it for the pirates and ccp went "oh, that wasn't supposed to happen, what now..."?

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