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Thread: AT XIII in retrospect: rules, refinements, and thoughts on future tournaments

  1. #41
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzuko View Post
    I've been satisfied with most of the changes, but i dont have problem buying billions worth ammo or implants. I do know that some other teams have relatively low budget, so i feel the same as someone before, that we should get RARE ammo types and every other implants out expect the fitting one.

    About TD. I think they should affect missiles too, or get scrpits back, and create a new module for missiles. But you need to do something about inapropiate ewar spread.

    Uniques: i think only the malice was way above the point cost this year. Everything else was fine, even when pl blapped with morachas.

    Changes i the point system, honestly this cannot be done properly like this. You cant think of changes for a year ahead. This should be done in the whole time continually. Like PTQ-Pre Tournament Qualifier. Like that CCP and the scene can see what rule set changes needs to be done till the real thing.

    It is very unlikely to happen but i think everyone would enjoy a more football like selection of teams. So lets say you have 120 teams which want to participate you can select groups out randomly, but the top 16 teams would be separately seeded obviusly. And you can run qualifiers thrue the entire year. If CCP lack of manpower than just get the community involved in it more. I know i would help in something like that, and i bet others too. For most of us this is literally the only thing we play thins game now.

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  2. #42
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  3. #43
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Just for the record, the reason that svipuls are so high up there isnt cause its better then all others (it kinda is but stil), its just that its the only shield and armor viable t3d and its a good pick for both. So it will be the one to chose for almost any comps.

    Also, hecate is a incredibly shit ship.
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  4. #44
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    In general I thought this AT was pretty decent this year from organisational point of view (although more love pre-tournament would be good) and I love seeing how the general skill level is rising year on year. All the top 8, and most of the top 16 teams are really solid teams who are talented theorycrafters and pilots in their own right which seems quite different to previous years where the talent was focused much more into 3-4 teams. Despite only having 5 matches we had fun and only got knocked out by teams who went pretty deep so we were happy with our performance.

    I'm definitely in the tinkers are boring to fly, boring to watch crowd. They enable 'scrubbier' teams to knock out mid-level teams with relatively little effort forcing the mid-level teams to ban Tengu or spend a dis-proportionate amount of time training to beat them. For me, as a viewer of AT watching the swirling chaos of 12v12 balanced teams I love the complexity of the whirling maelstrom of pilots spreading ewar, tackle and positioning and target calling which to me is a true display of team talent. Tinkers are just a click-fest. They take concentration and practice to execute flawlessly, but they are dull as fuck imo and I have practiced quite a few. Despite us having a couple of decent tinkers I stubbornly refused to fly them as team captain. Another thing I hate about them is that you have maybe 18-24 guys on team and only 6 get to fly in a match? Sucks to be the guys on that team who trained for months and have to sit out.

    I think 12 pilots should have to be fielded or you get disqualified, would encourage some of the shittier 'just signed up for a laugh don't know if we even have 12 active people' teams not to enter the draw too.

    Congrats to the top 4 for their placings, really happy to Exodus break into the top 4 again, some really fantastic flying form them at times they looked as strong as Camel I thought. As a long-time fan-boy it's cool to see Hydra back on top as AT top-dogs, awesome to see PL going slightly off-meta too with their arty and ECM comps and doing well with them proving you don't need to be the best pilots (not that your horrible!) if you have the best brains to do awesome
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  5. #45
    Yankunytjatjara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    The problem with tinkers isn't on the pilot end, it's on the viewer end. They're just flat-out incredibly boring to watch, and usually turn on the tiniest mistake which is nearly always impossible to guess unless someone in the know tells you what went wrong. Compelling viewing, this is not.

    At this point (now that I don't have to write about the matches any more), if I saw a tinker on field, I would just shut the stream off and watch/do something else then check the results later to see who won.
    Good point. But it's not limited to tinkers. It's quite the same the frustration felt when the really meaningful action is only commented on, while the camera zooms in on the primary - often the less interesting of what's happening. It would be great if the stream could sometime contain the pilots' viewpoints, as if within the client, at the studio's call. This would solve the issue with tinkers: the studio would be able to jump from what's going on in the tengu - mod activations, etc - to the heavily neuted command ship, and so on...

    I wonder if this could be done using CREST, without forcing people to feed their screen.
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  6. #46
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Who controls the screen anyway? It doesn't seem to be the commentators.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankunytjatjara View Post
    It would be great if the stream could sometime contain the pilots' viewpoints, as if within the client, at the studio's call. .
    #EVE_NT Nottingham spoiler - we are aiming to do this with our live tourney this month and i'm super hyped about it. It's 2v2 and my techie promises me we can do mario-cart style split screen for the viewers to watch. If i'm a really good boy he says I can stream it too alongside what will be hopefully a live stream of the main camera view point as well. I'm pretty hyped about it.
    The existence of space means the existence of pirates.

  8. #48
    Yankunytjatjara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artjay View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankunytjatjara View Post
    It would be great if the stream could sometime contain the pilots' viewpoints, as if within the client, at the studio's call. .
    #EVE_NT Nottingham spoiler - we are aiming to do this with our live tourney this month and i'm super hyped about it. It's 2v2 and my techie promises me we can do mario-cart style split screen for the viewers to watch. If i'm a really good boy he says I can stream it too alongside what will be hopefully a live stream of the main camera view point as well. I'm pretty hyped about it.
    Oooohhh <3

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  9. #49
    Mr Marram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Who controls the screen anyway? It doesn't seem to be the commentators.
    Cameraman/woman GM or ISD volunteers they get directed roughly but have somewhat free reign.


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  10. #50
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    Best tourney since the first one I remember watching. Think that was AT VI. Final was PL versus RUR, Stabber Fleets and Caracal navies all over the place. Think they could bring back T2 drones, just not augmented/faction/Gecko's. Also did prefer it when it was any three of a single ship rather than two.

    Good show chaps. Stream, commentary and after match discussion was best it has been. Still miss Soundwave, but whatever.

  11. #51

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    Overall, I liked this year's rule set.

    Damps are very hard to balance between being 100% useless and being so strong that every team must have them (particularly with Bastion banned). I tend to think that any kind of scripted damp falls into the latter category, even the T1 version. I think they're fine the way they were (unscripted); they're pretty niche but not completely worthless.

    AT ships are mostly ok I think. Malice should probably cost 6 points, and the Etana should probably cost 16 if cap-transfers continue to be allowed. Otherwise, I don't really care that much.

    Banning cap-transfers would be interesting, and would have a pretty huge change to the meta if CCP were to take that route. At the very least, lots of things we've rejected as being unable to beat a tinker suddenly become more viable.

    I'd personally like to have 3 bans per team, as I think that would resolve a lot of issues: if you don't like tinkers, ban Tengu + Loki + Etana/Basilisk. If you think damps are overpowered, ban Maulus + Keres + Celestis. If you hate AT ships, ban Malice + Etana + Cambion. On the other hand I can see how that would make things more difficult in terms of prep work particularly for the teams who don't have a big AT budget.

  12. #52
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Also, i would like bans to be easier vs at ships, either include them in other ships (i.e ban vengeance or restro and you autoban the malice, banning the basi or scimi bans the etana and so on) or give people 4 bans, 2 only for at ships or give a flat at ships ban.

    Lastly, if proper drones were allowed you would see nothing but drones again, they are still absurdly op.
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  13. #53

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    IMO NEO II was the best tournament meta to date, and I really loved the 8v8. 12v12 is easily twice as hard to manage. I think going back to 10v10, keeping the 2 ship max, bringing t2 drones drones back(minus sentires), ETs back on logi only(ETs made a huge difference in this tournament) and an AT ship point rebalance(ccp should reach out to top teams for comment on this one) would bring a much better meta.

    All in all pretty fantastic tournament though. That BO3 series vs PL was probably the most fun/scariest series I've ever played in. Trying to keep composure as an fc while you're losing 3 uniques and an 80b flagship is very hard to do. I'm really glad we didn't tilt after that match. The series vs warlords gutted me. It's pretty hard to out ban/pick Kadesh. I really wanted to win two years in a row, but second place isn't too bad.
    Last edited by Brent; September 4 2015 at 04:57:46 PM.

  14. #54
    Donor Lorkin Desal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent View Post
    IMO NEO II was the best tournament meta to date, and I really loved the 8v8. 12v12 is easily twice as hard to manage. I think going back to 10v10, keeping the 2 ship max, bringing t2 drones drones back(minus sentires), ETs back on logi only(ETs made a huge difference in this tournament) and an AT ship point rebalance(ccp should reach out to top teams for comment on this one) would bring a much better meta.

    All in all pretty fantastic tournament though. That BO3 series vs PL was probably the most fun/scariest series I've ever played in. Trying to keep composure as an fc while you're losing 3 uniques and an 80b flagship is very hard to do. I'm really glad we didn't tilt after that match. The series vs warlords gutted me. It's pretty hard to out ban/pick Kadesh. I really wanted to win two years in a row, but second place isn't too bad.
    With this first paragraph, I agree entirely. Rl fucked me for this AT, but watching past broadcasts I really prefer the 8v8 format of NEO.
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  15. #55
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    I think a new angel and a serpentis t2 logi in shield and armour respectively (or whatever faction you want) would help this game out a shitton in terms of the AT.
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  16. #56
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    I think a new angel and a serpentis t2 logi in shield and armour respectively (or whatever faction you want) would help this game out a shitton in terms of the AT.
    are you ok hun? xxx
    you can out armor, you can ban out shield vs specific teams (or force them into tinkers). Some teams beeing able to evade bans while other cant for the most vital ship in the game calls for equalizers.
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  17. #57
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post

    are you ok hun? xxx
    Ok what the fuck are you so fat.

  18. #58
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    My write up of the camel AT XIII run:

    http://crossingzebras.com/camel-empire-atxiii-aar/

  19. #59

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    I brought it up when they were going to re-stat the Fiend, but I would not be surprised if the Blood Raider AT cruiser is an armor Etana.

  20. #60
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Dalikah was hospitalised
    Was this the gf martial arts incident, or something else?
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    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

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