AT XIII Day 6 chat/predictions/betting: All things must end

[GiDiYi]

So, who won and who lost and where are we at in the schedule atm?

[Tafkat]

So, who won and who lost and where are we at in the schedule atm?

Exodus took fourth and PL took third, grand final series will be Warlords/Hydra versus Camel.

[Lucas Quaan]

Well, that was fun.

[phoenix]

I dont get how people can watch this and be happy about it. I watch this with total and utter disgust, flagships that are worth the at fund of entire teams. Ships beeing whelped over and over which are in total worth more then some alliances earn in month or even years, all without any consideration as they all have made more isk already.

From any sort of sporting perspective this is utter shit, no team can compete with that in that fashion simply because pretty much no other teams exsists that can afford this much isk beeing thrown at the AT. Pl/camel/hydra have better theory crafting, no doubts, but on a fcing and piloting level they really arent any better then a few other teams in the AT, its theorycrafting (tbh a veeery huge factor) and ISK that wins these things.

I do agree to a certain extent there. In one way the whole AT was more 'level' and fun back when it was much simpler. (what was it initially, 3 ships, one of each frig/cruiser/BS class?)
Then again, that also was rather ... simple. Dull after some time ...

The variety today is quite interesting. And the AT ships and flagships certainly add to that.
I dont really see much fault with the flagship, its always a gamble still. Its not like they dont die.
The AT ships are a mixed bunch. A slight point adjustment might be in order there. But i wouldnt want to not see them anymore either. I dont think they alone can make or break a team. And if a 'great' team really really thinks it needs some then i dont think its impossible to get them.


As far throwing around ISK goes ... really dont share your opinion. Plenty rich alliances/corps/people in eve. If you really have a good team i d imagine you can get what you need. The single pimped flagship should be in any alliances reach. The AT ships are maybe (becoming) another story, but i dont think winning without them isnt possible.

[W0lf Crendraven]

I dont get how people can watch this and be happy about it. I watch this with total and utter disgust, flagships that are worth the at fund of entire teams. Ships beeing whelped over and over which are in total worth more then some alliances earn in month or even years, all without any consideration as they all have made more isk already.

From any sort of sporting perspective this is utter shit, no team can compete with that in that fashion simply because pretty much no other teams exsists that can afford this much isk beeing thrown at the AT. Pl/camel/hydra have better theory crafting, no doubts, but on a fcing and piloting level they really arent any better then a few other teams in the AT, its theorycrafting (tbh a veeery huge factor) and ISK that wins these things.

I do agree to a certain extent there. In one way the whole AT was more 'level' and fun back when it was much simpler. (what was it initially, 3 ships, one of each frig/cruiser/BS class?)
Then again, that also was rather ... simple. Dull after some time ...

The variety today is quite interesting. And the AT ships and flagships certainly add to that.
I dont really see much fault with the flagship, its always a gamble still. Its not like they dont die.
The AT ships are a mixed bunch. A slight point adjustment might be in order there. But i wouldnt want to not see them anymore either. I dont think they alone can make or break a team. And if a 'great' team really really thinks it needs some then i dont think its impossible to get them.


As far throwing around ISK goes ... really dont share your opinion. Plenty rich alliances/corps/people in eve. If you really have a good team i d imagine you can get what you need. The single pimped flagship should be in any alliances reach. The AT ships are maybe (becoming) another story, but i dont think winning without them isnt possible.

Camel lost over 600billion isk today, not many big boy alliances can fork that over. Some small alliances like bastards or brave or exodus and so on are probably really hardpressed to invest that much isk. Especially since they dont guarantee a victory and in the hand of a bad but rich team (bl for example) they still wont perform very well.

[phoenix]

Camel lost over 600billion isk today, not many big boy alliances can fork that over. Some small alliances like bastards or brave or exodus and so on are probably really hardpressed to invest that much isk. Especially since they dont guarantee a victory and in the hand of a bad but rich team (bl for example) they still wont perform very well.

Well yes, so the problem isnt really that big, no ? =)

[Jamir]

I dont get how people can watch this and be happy about it. I watch this with total and utter disgust, flagships that are worth the at fund of entire teams. Ships beeing whelped over and over which are in total worth more then some alliances earn in month or even years, all without any consideration as they all have made more isk already.

From any sort of sporting perspective this is utter shit, no team can compete with that in that fashion simply because pretty much no other teams exsists that can afford this much isk beeing thrown at the AT. Pl/camel/hydra have better theory crafting, no doubts, but on a fcing and piloting level they really arent any better then a few other teams in the AT, its theorycrafting (tbh a veeery huge factor) and ISK that wins these things.

I do agree to a certain extent there. In one way the whole AT was more 'level' and fun back when it was much simpler. (what was it initially, 3 ships, one of each frig/cruiser/BS class?)
Then again, that also was rather ... simple. Dull after some time ...

The variety today is quite interesting. And the AT ships and flagships certainly add to that.
I dont really see much fault with the flagship, its always a gamble still. Its not like they dont die.
The AT ships are a mixed bunch. A slight point adjustment might be in order there. But i wouldnt want to not see them anymore either. I dont think they alone can make or break a team. And if a 'great' team really really thinks it needs some then i dont think its impossible to get them.


As far throwing around ISK goes ... really dont share your opinion. Plenty rich alliances/corps/people in eve. If you really have a good team i d imagine you can get what you need. The single pimped flagship should be in any alliances reach. The AT ships are maybe (becoming) another story, but i dont think winning without them isnt possible.

Camel lost over 600billion isk today, not many big boy alliances can fork that over. Some small alliances like bastards or brave or exodus and so on are probably really hardpressed to invest that much isk. Especially since they dont guarantee a victory and in the hand of a bad but rich team (bl for example) they still wont perform very well.

i hear huns are joining BL for next year

[Hel OWeen]

I dont get how people can watch this and be happy about it. I watch this with total and utter disgust, flagships that are worth the at fund of entire teams. Ships beeing whelped over and over which are in total worth more then some alliances earn in month or even years, all without any consideration as they all have made more isk already.

From any sort of sporting perspective this is utter shit, no team can compete with that in that fashion simply because pretty much no other teams exsists that can afford this much isk beeing thrown at the AT. Pl/camel/hydra have better theory crafting, no doubts, but on a fcing and piloting level they really arent any better then a few other teams in the AT, its theorycrafting (tbh a veeery huge factor) and ISK that wins these things.

The AT ships are a mixed bunch. A slight point adjustment might be in order there. But i wouldnt want to not see them anymore either. I dont think they alone can make or break a team. And if a 'great' team really really thinks it needs some then i dont think its impossible to get them.

To me the ships themselves - although way too powerful for their points - aren't the main problem. In the current AT rule set, it's more about the bans. Teams without access to AT ships have a hard time really shooting down a certain meta, as with AT ships there's a more powerful alternative than a less powerful one. And with always the same handful of alliances making it to the point in the tournament where AT ships being handed out, this makes matters worse each year.

I guess some special AT ship rules are necessary for upcoming tournaments.

That said - the AT is probably the only real fight were AT ships are actually fielded. Not sure how many pilots undock with AT ships on TQ. So from a personal perspective, I certainly can understand why you'd like to bring those ships to a real fight.

[W0lf Crendraven]

Camel lost over 600billion isk today, not many big boy alliances can fork that over. Some small alliances like bastards or brave or exodus and so on are probably really hardpressed to invest that much isk. Especially since they dont guarantee a victory and in the hand of a bad but rich team (bl for example) they still wont perform very well.

Well yes, so the problem isnt really that big, no ? =)

No, the ones the lost either got them the win or they lost them to other blingy AT ships.

[Aliventi]

I am still a fan of the idea that CCP should re-issue the limited issue ships AT 7+ ships (only the ones that have been killed) once a year. Let anyone who wants to bid for them in PLEX. The PLEX is saved for the next PLEX4Good. Before you call this idea BS think about it. Sure a few would be resold to Camel, PL, Hydra, etc. But the PLEX prizes, ship skins, and some isk grinding would put them into the reach of other teams. While it probably wouldn't help mid-teir teams in the first 2 weekends, it would make the tournament overall more competitive and more entertaining as the difference between the haves and have nots is smaller in the last weekend. Another plus is people might be willing to risk them more on TQ. No one loses when content is created. Also, the real world benefits because the bids go to PLEX4Good.

[Larkonis Trassler]

I'll admit that I haven't watched the AT this year but in past times where has an AT ship actually been an advantage rather than bait?

[Boltorano]

"Camel and Warlords aren't going to field AT ships against each other." LOL

[Daneel Trevize]

I'll admit that I haven't watched the AT this year but in past times where has an AT ship actually been an advantage rather than bait?

Er, when robo turned the match with his Malice. Ofc it took the rest flying great too, but an AF wouldn't have done it iirc.

[W0lf Crendraven]

I'll admit that I haven't watched the AT this year but in past times where has an AT ship actually been an advantage rather than bait?

Last year camel won on the back of an etana in the finals. Last year the drone meta was to big, the year before that it was all instakilling sentry comps. Before that the at having teams were banned and people in general were bad at the AT.

"Camel and Warlords aren't going to field AT ships against each other." LOL

Maybe these arent rigged, although i doubt it. One of the worse (still very good) at ships dying and then not getting banned is a lot better then risking nothing and getting banned. Especially since the matches vs pl were super heavily dominated by at ships, a sudden 0 beeing fielded for the most important match of them all would be a tad weird.

Anyways, this may not be fake but the previous series was 100%.

[Lowa [NSN]]

Not the best final matches I've seen but I'm still very much entertained I must say.

But also, less than 9k watching the final? Thats what, 3x less than the record audience?

[Verite Rendition]

I can't help but feel that ECM needs some reconsideration in the AT. The upper brackets have made consistent use of it, and as a result we're seeing chance-based combat. The second Camel/Warlords fight is a good example of this; 10 minutes of either side waiting for the stars to align to punch out the other.

Though I will admit with everyone dipping so low in HP does make for good viewing...

Anyhow, final match starting in a few. It all comes down to one match.

[Larkonis Trassler]

In my time I only lost to first and second place. Just saying.

[Verite Rendition]

Here we go!

And it's a Mexican hat dance...

[Larkonis Trassler]

What character does Garmon play as these days?

[Lucas Quaan]

Eshnala has to join Habit now. Sorry, but those are the rules.