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Thread: Carrier FAQ

  1. #41
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordsServant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Alright good to know, looks like Archon it is.

    What changed to make Thannies so shitty from what I understood was a "decent at lots of things but not great" role that it used to occupy?
    The general EVE populous realized how good the Archon was. It used to be that a triage Thanny was alright, because not everyone had Archons. Besides, it's not like anyone knew what to do about a triage carrier anyway. Especially for small gang, dropping triage usually meant they either tried shooting everything or the triage to no avail then bailing, or just bailing. No one knew how to counter a triage carrier, or if they did, they didn't have the assets and they didn't want to escalate with dreads.

    In today's EVE, everyone knows how to counter triage, and in any random gang of 10, at least one person will have a Bhaal for just such an occasion. Worse yet, combat carriers no longer care about fighters, very rarely do people even launch fighters anymore, it's all about the sentry drones.

    The Thanny still does everything with mediocrity, but especially when giving a choice, why would you pick the worst? Most organized groups these days are trading Thannies for Archons on a program. Trade in your Not-An-Archon carrier and get an Archon and the skillbook required to fly it in return. The carrier discrepancy is that bad.
    This. Chimera is the shield archon, and not all that terrible anymore.

    Chimera's are pretty solid as shield triage for shield gangs, and are actually a superior turd carrier to the Archon(along with shield supers being superior - all titans are shit, Im referring to supercarriers), only reason they aren't more common is that more people are trained for Chimeras, and there are far more armor supers/armor caps.
    The Chimera never was shit, it's just that EVE didn't want to work with it's advantages, although it could still use a bit of a CPU increase(bringing it up to 1125 CPU would be perfect).

  2. #42
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LordsServant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Alright good to know, looks like Archon it is.

    What changed to make Thannies so shitty from what I understood was a "decent at lots of things but not great" role that it used to occupy?
    The general EVE populous realized how good the Archon was. It used to be that a triage Thanny was alright, because not everyone had Archons. Besides, it's not like anyone knew what to do about a triage carrier anyway. Especially for small gang, dropping triage usually meant they either tried shooting everything or the triage to no avail then bailing, or just bailing. No one knew how to counter a triage carrier, or if they did, they didn't have the assets and they didn't want to escalate with dreads.

    In today's EVE, everyone knows how to counter triage, and in any random gang of 10, at least one person will have a Bhaal for just such an occasion. Worse yet, combat carriers no longer care about fighters, very rarely do people even launch fighters anymore, it's all about the sentry drones.

    The Thanny still does everything with mediocrity, but especially when giving a choice, why would you pick the worst? Most organized groups these days are trading Thannies for Archons on a program. Trade in your Not-An-Archon carrier and get an Archon and the skillbook required to fly it in return. The carrier discrepancy is that bad.
    This. Chimera is the shield archon, and not all that terrible anymore.

    Chimera's are pretty solid as shield triage for shield gangs, and are actually a superior turd carrier to the Archon(along with shield supers being superior - all titans are shit, Im referring to supercarriers), only reason they aren't more common is that more people are trained for Chimeras, and there are far more armor supers/armor caps.
    The Chimera never was shit, it's just that EVE didn't want to work with it's advantages, although it could still use a bit of a CPU increase(bringing it up to 1125 CPU would be perfect).
    Before they rebalanced Capital Shield Xfers/boosters, reducing their CPU amount, it was completely impossible to get a proper fit at all comparable to armor carriers.

    Even now, after the said changes, it's still CPU short and you cannot get cap/sec + local tank comparable to a triage archon at the same time without extensive faction+ fittings or implants.

    This is quite a big deal, and until it's fully rectified, shield triage will be at a disadvantage compared to armor triage. The changes did make the Chimera very competitive, and with the addition of drone damage mods, better than similar armor fits for turd carrier useage.

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  3. #43
    Movember 2011Donor Cue1*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordsServant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LordsServant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Alright good to know, looks like Archon it is.

    What changed to make Thannies so shitty from what I understood was a "decent at lots of things but not great" role that it used to occupy?
    The general EVE populous realized how good the Archon was. It used to be that a triage Thanny was alright, because not everyone had Archons. Besides, it's not like anyone knew what to do about a triage carrier anyway. Especially for small gang, dropping triage usually meant they either tried shooting everything or the triage to no avail then bailing, or just bailing. No one knew how to counter a triage carrier, or if they did, they didn't have the assets and they didn't want to escalate with dreads.

    In today's EVE, everyone knows how to counter triage, and in any random gang of 10, at least one person will have a Bhaal for just such an occasion. Worse yet, combat carriers no longer care about fighters, very rarely do people even launch fighters anymore, it's all about the sentry drones.

    The Thanny still does everything with mediocrity, but especially when giving a choice, why would you pick the worst? Most organized groups these days are trading Thannies for Archons on a program. Trade in your Not-An-Archon carrier and get an Archon and the skillbook required to fly it in return. The carrier discrepancy is that bad.
    This. Chimera is the shield archon, and not all that terrible anymore.

    Chimera's are pretty solid as shield triage for shield gangs, and are actually a superior turd carrier to the Archon(along with shield supers being superior - all titans are shit, Im referring to supercarriers), only reason they aren't more common is that more people are trained for Chimeras, and there are far more armor supers/armor caps.
    The Chimera never was shit, it's just that EVE didn't want to work with it's advantages, although it could still use a bit of a CPU increase(bringing it up to 1125 CPU would be perfect).
    Before they rebalanced Capital Shield Xfers/boosters, reducing their CPU amount, it was completely impossible to get a proper fit at all comparable to armor carriers.

    Even now, after the said changes, it's still CPU short and you cannot get cap/sec + local tank comparable to a triage archon at the same time without extensive faction+ fittings or implants.

    This is quite a big deal, and until it's fully rectified, shield triage will be at a disadvantage compared to armor triage. The changes did make the Chimera very competitive, and with the addition of drone damage mods, better than similar armor fits for turd carrier useage.
    Shield triage will always be at a disadvantage because all of the multipliers that get applied to armor don't work the same for shield. The two biggest issues are CPRs, and invulns. Both the Archon and the Chimera require CPRs to be cap stable, but CPRs hurt the Chimera's local tank, but not the Archons. Faction EANMs are cheap enough that they belong on nearly any triage carrier, but faction invulns are so expensive they only go on pimped Chimeras. A CPU increase would bring the Chimera up to almost par with the Archon, but the local tank is still going to be less until you fix modules instead of just the ship. The Chimera needs better overall cap to truly compete with the Archon; ideally strong enough that it can forgo CPRs for either CFCs or PDSs.

    However, all of that said, it's still the best shield triage carrier out there.

  4. #44
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    The armour/shield value divide will probably always remain so long as PvE benefits more from bringing more dps than it does more tackle. That or the Faction LP stores need to stock shield modules that are useful compared to T2 hardeners.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  5. #45
    Tetsuo's Avatar
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    Turd carrier?


    Also regarding CPRs and Triage, am I right in thinking you fit a few CPRs to the lows and just accept that it's going to fuck up your local tank, or is there some other way to get decent cap life and be able to self rep?

  6. #46
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Turd carrier?


    Also regarding CPRs and Triage, am I right in thinking you fit a few CPRs to the lows and just accept that it's going to fuck up your local tank, or is there some other way to get decent cap life and be able to self rep?
    Turd carrier is the original term for what most people call "slowcats" today. They were originally invented by the DRF as fittings for supercarriers/carriers.

    You could argue their spiritual predecessor is the Pantheon Carrier, popularized (and I believe invented by) Rooks and Kings. Pantheon Carriers had vastly different fits however, and used fighters primarily in place of sentry drones. Some "slowcats" or "turd carriers" don't even bother fitting fighters, as they're all but useless in today's eve(except apparently according to some retards who know apparently everything in a now defunct ex-nullsec alliance.)

    Video of Pantheon Carriers:

    ^^Skip to 7:40

    Video of turd fit Nyx:

    ^^Skip to 4:00
    Last edited by LordsServant; September 11 2013 at 03:29:54 PM.

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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Turd carrier?
    Pantheon Carriers that drop sentries, AKA, slowcats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Also regarding CPRs and Triage, am I right in thinking you fit a few CPRs to the lows and just accept that it's going to fuck up your local tank, or is there some other way to get decent cap life and be able to self rep?
    you just fit CPRs and accept it's going to fuck with your local tank. Pimp the tank slightly and you can get to 10.6k DPS tanked before links, drugs, heat, etc.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Turd carrier?
    Pantheon Carriers that drop sentries, AKA, slowcats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Also regarding CPRs and Triage, am I right in thinking you fit a few CPRs to the lows and just accept that it's going to fuck up your local tank, or is there some other way to get decent cap life and be able to self rep?
    you just fit CPRs and accept it's going to fuck with your local tank. Pimp the tank slightly and you can get to 10.6k DPS tanked before links, drugs, heat, etc.
    If flying 2+ Triage carriers use the ship maintenance bay to re-fit, whoever is called prime fits for max tank, the other goes triage and fits for cap stability.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    If flying 2+ Triage carriers use the ship maintenance bay to re-fit, whoever is called prime fits for max tank, the other goes triage and fits for cap stability.
    Sure, standard triage weaving, however you have to drop two for that which tends to scare off gangs unless they've got a counter to weaving triage carriers.

  10. #50
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    If flying 2+ Triage carriers use the ship maintenance bay to re-fit, whoever is called prime fits for max tank, the other goes triage and fits for cap stability.
    Sure, standard triage weaving, however you have to drop two for that which tends to scare off gangs unless they've got a counter to weaving triage carriers.
    That's a standard triage thing. If you have more than three well cycled triage on the field then you're generally better off doing pantheons.


  11. #51
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cue1* View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4m View Post
    If flying 2+ Triage carriers use the ship maintenance bay to re-fit, whoever is called prime fits for max tank, the other goes triage and fits for cap stability.
    Sure, standard triage weaving, however you have to drop two for that which tends to scare off gangs unless they've got a counter to weaving triage carriers.
    That's a standard triage thing. If you have more than three well cycled triage on the field then you're generally better off doing pantheons.
    Yes, but only if you're not concerned with keeping up subcaps. Triage both locks and cycles rep much faster than pantheon(shield slowcats are superior in this regard as they frontload all their reps, cycle is not an issue.)

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  12. #52
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    With the DPS present that would require 4 staggered triage carriers, wouldn't your subcap DPS/tackle need to be fully buffer tanked fitted things anyway, thus less able to fully use most faction/pirate bonuses, and thus more likely to be cheaper hulls that you can afford to risk losing due to pantheon lock+rep time? I assume stacked plates & trimarks gets you a little further along w.r.t. survivability than deadspace hardeners at that point on the raw dps & rep scale. Or does it really need resists too?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    With the DPS present that would require 4 staggered triage carriers, wouldn't your subcap DPS/tackle need to be fully buffer tanked fitted things anyway, thus less able to fully use most faction/pirate bonuses, and thus more likely to be cheaper hulls that you can afford to risk losing due to pantheon lock+rep time? I assume stacked plates & trimarks gets you a little further along w.r.t. survivability than deadspace hardeners at that point on the raw dps & rep scale. Or does it really need resists too?
    You only need enough buffer to catch reps, everything after that has to be resists. Hence single plated Lokis and such. It's also possible that you need staggered triage due to DPS that can land on the triage, but not on your subcaps(AKA dreads, while you've got a T3 fleet).

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