someone explain how pantheon fits are supposed to work tia
someone explain how pantheon fits are supposed to work tia
Like Guardians, but bigger, and with really big drones.
Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.
"You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."
oh, okay, that makes sense
This is a good fred good read
Topic needs to be burnt.. The less noobs know about capitals the better.. If you dont know the basics of them be the time you get one then you either bought your character and RMT'd the isk, or you are not in a position to ever use it.Originally Posted by Cogs
< Jolin> you're prety too LanaTorrin
Clearly mafia.
I like killing chimeras (it's always chimeras and phoenixes, because noobs ALWAYS have caldari spec mains) on hisec gates as they try and jump out
So what's the new names of the implants for triage carriers/remote capital assistance modules?
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Energy Systems Operation EO-60x
Inherent Implants 'Noble' Remote Armor Repair Systems RA-70x / Inherent Implants 'Squire' Energy Emission Systems ES-70x
Zainou 'Gnome' Shield Emission Systems SE-80x / Inherent Implants 'Squire' Energy Management EM-80x
Or do the armour & shield ones not work on capital modules (were there capital-specific armour rr ones?)?
Also how about RP-90x, Imp. N. Modified 'Noble', Numons, SM-70x, SP-90x?
Last edited by Daneel Trevize; December 13 2012 at 02:04:05 PM.
Combat carrier nub here (as in mine gets used purely for logistics and thats it):
Having been on a handful of carrier kills and being one of those weird people who are effectively playing Logi Online, I get that cap >> anything else provided you're not fit like a total bollock brain, I also know that when jumping into a fight you start off with 33% cap and that a propper traige carrier is an archon with CCCs, CRs and CPRs getting its regen to circa +500 (iirc).
So the first question is would fitting a (shield tanked armour repping) nid for cap amount rather than regen be effective? (again iirc) The nid can get to about double the total cap amount of the archon, giving a larger buffer before it is neuted dry and seeing as once your'e dry there's pretty much no coming back with a neut ship latched on would this not be a viable way of prolonging you're ability to support the fleet? I guess this is assuming that given this extra time you're fleet would be able to pull victory from the jaws of defeat. The second point to this would be that seeing as you're jumping in at 33% and most likely immediately going to work you're past peak regen anyway so maybe cap amount rather than regen would be more beneficial?
Second question: why is fitting cap boosters bad? you get about +400 regen with 5 true sansha fitted making neuts less of a problem, plus seeing as with a regen carrier you are past peak regen from the word go might the actual regen not be about the same? This also allows you to fill you're lows with tank mods giving more buffer and possibly the ability to only have to pulse your reps which again would decrease the strain on cap (assuming the incoming DPS wouldnt have broken the tank of the normal setup).
Seeing as i'm not experienced at all in these matters i'm sure i've missed some things but i don't understand why it's seen as such a terrible idea and would love for someone to actually explain it to me.
Equally nub here, but I'd expect:
cargo, can't carry enough 800s to last more than a couple of cycles. Lowsec gank dreads may do this trick with a higher chance of being able to jump out after cycle, carriers not so much. Even if you do turn the tide and down any neut threats in the first cycle, you can't keep being useful for long and instead become a liability.
combat refitting option if not solo. Just jump in with a higher cap regen fit and delay refitting for tank for as long as possible. Cargo space being saved for a capital module or 2.
But yeah I've occasionally pondered 'semiconductor memory cell' rigged capitals.
P.S. isn't a shield-tanked nid(/any carrier) really fucking weak w.r.t. tank? Like, <10k dps even with vulture/tengu, while 2xCAR it could break 30k tanked in armour?
Last edited by Daneel Trevize; January 8 2013 at 05:31:17 PM.
I can see that both approaches are 'win in the first cycle' kinda fits, which i presume is in a large part the answer to my question. But then again i expect that to be true for most lowsec fights.....actually come to think of it my perception of time gets really warped during so don't hold me to that statement =p
erm the fits i've warriored up have just over 9K tank (all CPRs in the low and CCC rigs, full mid tank) or just over 11K (all PDSs in the low SCM rigs, full mid tank) both without links/pills. Also how are you fitting the dual CAR one as i really struggle armour tanking and fitting CRARs due to PG issues.
When fit for overall cap the Nid only has 20k more cap than the Archon, so no, doesn't get double. Either ship isn't going to have enough cap to last through the first triage cycle when fit for max cap. When properly fit for max regen, after you begin repping, you're still able to run two RRs on the Archon and gain cap, or one on the Niddy. You're right cap is life, but you seem to be seeing it wrong. With regen, the opponent needs to bring enough neut power to break your regen, which isn't just a few neut frigs, it's more than one proper Bhaalgorn. Once that amount of neut power hits the field, your cap is going to drop quick, no matter how you're fit. Cap batteries can mitigate it a bit, but not really enough to matter. The only real way to deal with that kind of neut power is triage weaving.
Cap booster fits aren't bad necessarily, just annoying to deal with. You're going to be handling at least 1000 stront in your fuel bay, and whatever fuel you need for jump in and jump out. Add to that you'll need to carry your spare fittings and such(one of each hardener, drugs, etc) and all of the cap boosters you can. You can only carry 35 in your cargo, so depending upon what else you've got, you might only have a triage cycle's worth of boosters. You also will need to pull from your fleet hanger into your cargo to try and manage that while keeping up with reps, and when your fleet hanger runs dry, you'll need to have haulers filled with cap boosters in your SMA and pull from those(can you still do that?). It's not exactly easy. You're also not getting much of an advantage from doing that, as the cap can still be easily neuted away when there's that much neut power on the field. Yes, you can inject as you need to rep, and it will work, it's just a lot of trouble for not much gain. Additionally, you lose overall cap ability for what's basically a what if situation.
The niddy basically has to always tank opposite to it's reps, so it sucks in that regard.
2xCAR Nids:Spoiler:
Spoiler:
I was trying to make the shield-tank ones stable while also repping with 1 RR(using a CS with 3 on-tank links + 1 off-tank cap reduction one). Even looked at flux coils because dat CPR boost penalty. Perhaps there's a better solution with more resists and/or boost amps rather than cap regen, but I didn't find it for a dirt-cheap suicide fit.
IIRC the thanny can do exactly the same tank as the Nid in armour, for different em & explo resists.
Last edited by Daneel Trevize; January 8 2013 at 07:38:27 PM.
Internets down at my home so having to remember EFT stats but here goes:Spoiler:
When fit for overall cap the Nid only has 20k more cap than the Archon, so no, doesn't get double. Either ship isn't going to have enough cap to last through the first triage cycle when fit for max cap. When properly fit for max regen, after you begin repping, you're still able to run two RRs on the Archon and gain cap, or one on the Niddy. You're right cap is life, but you seem to be seeing it wrong. With regen, the opponent needs to bring enough neut power to break your regen, which isn't just a few neut frigs, it's more than one proper Bhaalgorn. Once that amount of neut power hits the field, your cap is going to drop quick, no matter how you're fit. Cap batteries can mitigate it a bit, but not really enough to matter. The only real way to deal with that kind of neut power is triage weaving.
The nid fit for max cap get 140K with Semi rigs and all PDUs in the lows (the double was from using std mindflood putting it up to 160K which was the source of my error) with the archon at 80K fit for max regen (unless i have the fit wrong? CCC rigs, cap rechargers in the mids and all the lows except for 2CARs and 1INEANM?) I see your point about the bhaals, they drain a lot less than i thought at only ~300GJ/s and with an archon at +~700 that means it can run a cap mod and still gain cap, which is something the nid can only dream of and doing some of the maths on the cap buffer fit you can still only run one RR for 2min after jump in with a bhall on you which is piss poor. Added to that fact is the single self repper not benefiting from links as much as the dual rep on a archon so once legions/tengus get factored in the archon massively outclasses it there too.
Thing is this is the only way i can see the nid being slightly usefull as with mids full of cap boosters you can forgo any other cap mods (they don't really make that much diff in the regen iirc) meaning you can focus all those other slots for tank instead which possibly allows for a single CAR to keep up with the dual CAR fitted on the archon for half the cap cost + a substantial gain in EHP over other nids as well as taking reps better yourself. Do you think the buffer + tank would be enough to get out of triage? If it would could this not be quite a powerful combo given that the nid also has a RR bonus ontop of higher resits in this format? I guess the amount of cap charges then comes into play though which would be quite limiting....can you drag items from drop cans into your corporate hanger?Spoiler:
Cap booster fits aren't bad necessarily, just annoying to deal with. You're going to be handling at least 1000 stront in your fuel bay, and whatever fuel you need for jump in and jump out. Add to that you'll need to carry your spare fittings and such(one of each hardener, drugs, etc) and all of the cap boosters you can. You can only carry 35 in your cargo, so depending upon what else you've got, you might only have a triage cycle's worth of boosters. You also will need to pull from your fleet hanger into your cargo to try and manage that while keeping up with reps, and when your fleet hanger runs dry, you'll need to have haulers filled with cap boosters in your SMA and pull from those(can you still do that?). It's not exactly easy. You're also not getting much of an advantage from doing that, as the cap can still be easily neuted away when there's that much neut power on the field. Yes, you can inject as you need to rep, and it will work, it's just a lot of trouble for not much gain. Additionally, you lose overall cap ability for what's basically a what if situation.
working with normal 800s you can fit 26 into your cargo (845/32) and about 300 in your corp hanger (10,000/32 and leaving 400m3 of other mods etc.)
working with TS injectors holding 4 charges and reloading in 10s you're using up five charges every 13.75 seconds (five because you have 5 injectors)
(326/5)*13.75 = 896.5 seconds or 15min of continuous boosting.....
which is totally not as bad as i was expecting (unless i have the maths completely wrong)
If the only major down side is the extra work required i think it's a route im more happy to take than the shield tanked ones. Or do you not see it working at all?
You're comparing apples to oranges. If you're going to go overall cap, then compare to the Archon's overall cap fit too.
You're still not cap stable even boosting. So you'll have to be really good at managing boosts with reps. The Niddy really is in need of more slots, since it kinda sucks otherwise.
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