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Thread: Stellaris - Fully Manual Austerity Hetro Space Capitalism

  1. #4461
    Bentguru's Avatar
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    Apparently there are still a few game breaking bugs (like the one where synth ascended empires can't build their own ascended pops) so we'll hold off on MP for a bit until it's patched.

  2. #4462
    Neoo Gabriel's Avatar
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    I bought the Relics DLC, and the other DLCs I was missing. Been having a lot of fun, and I think the stellaris DLCs are worth it, with caveats, but the game still is unplayable (slows to a crawl) at late game in a large galaxy because of the stuttering bug (clausewitz feature). I even have a new computer setup with top of the line specs. Well, its a computing problem where we have linear "multi-threaded (sic)" tick calculations for which the load increases exponentially (because of pop increase with time), while the maximum thread calculation power remains constant.

    This was the last time I will be spending money on any PDX games while this issue is not fixed (haven't bought EU4 trash DLCs for a while either).

    I was answering a question on the steam forums and I remembered and re-found this old gem of a thread (Dec 2018) where someone reverse engineered the game as much as possible without breaking laws and exposed the incompetence (or shortsightedness) of the PDX engine devs. It is worth a read at least of the OP's posts as he explains the main problem in great detail:

    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...lysis.1138327/

    Improvement suggestions and conclusions:
    The decision to put single threaded work of tick calculation in the same thread that handles drawing and input may not be the best decision. As that thread is already overworked. Instead of even trying to multithread that part of the code one could "just" rip it out into a separate thread. It would still be serialized but it would not contend with resources of the main rendering thread. It may not be easy to separate but it's way easier than trying to parallelize it, as the actual work doesn't change, just where it is issued. Just this would give massive perf improvement as so much time is spent on rendering due to DirectX. In addition minimizing sync points to once per frame would drop a bunch of weird stalls.

    One possibility of how something like this could look: There is a single tick state that the rendering thread reads. It just consumes. The tick generating code reads from the previous tick state (that the rendering thread also accesses) and generates the next state. Once the tick is calculated you just flip so that the now fresh tick is being read by both. Only one sync point per tick instead of usual mutex lock hell.

    The profiler also says that the code is pretty terrible for a modern CPU. Lot's of stalls, branches etc. But improving that would be just gravy. It may not even be possible as the game must be scriptable, and that is fine. The biggest single bottleneck now is how the work is issued, not what work is issued.

    So to reiterate:
    Non parallelizable tick code should be removed from the mainthread that handles rendering.

    Get a programmer from there who understands these well enough to change it, or if you don't have or if the person prefers other stuff hire some other expert either as permanent or get a specialized consulting company to help. Latter may be a good choice as after the work is done you don't really need to look at it for a long time.
    And the latest dev diary admitted they haven't found a fix for this yet, either:

    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ments.1180597/

    No More!
    For 2.3 “Wolfe” we have switched to a system of modifier nodes, where each node register what node they follow, and is recalculated when used, following the chain itself. We have modifiers that are more up to date, and calculated only when needed. This also reduces the number of pointless recalculations.

    This system has shown remarkable promise, and cut the number of “big freezes” happening around the game (notably after loading, for example). It has some issues, but as we continue working with it, it’ll get better and help both with performance and our programmers’ sanity.

    So, what’s the verdict?
    In our tests, 2.3 “Wolfe” is between 10% and 30% faster than 2.2.7 right now. Hopefully it’ll stay that way until release, but the nature of the beast is that some of these optimizations break things and fixing the issues negate them, so we can’t promise anything.
    They are slowly improving things, but I figure they don't wan't to re-write clausewitz engine yet, so we will have to live with this problem until they do.

    So yeah, It's fun, but I've had enough of this slow kind of fun.

  3. #4463
    Kraken's Avatar
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    I dont generally feel much slow down, depending on galaxy size, but in some MP games ive had with 3 others, their potato machines fuck up the game in the mid game with time slowing down.

    Once it gets to mid game and my empire turns the corner of production and ultimate growth, things start being a macro management process, having to shift pops from planet to planet, once one gets full and another needs topping up.
    I dont trust Auto manager,. I guess this is the difference where we had max 25 pops and then things stop on a planet, but now we get hundreds on some planet. pain in the arse.

  4. #4464
    Joshua Foiritain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    I dont generally feel much slow down, depending on galaxy size, but in some MP games ive had with 3 others, their potato machines fuck up the game in the mid game with time slowing down.

    Once it gets to mid game and my empire turns the corner of production and ultimate growth, things start being a macro management process, having to shift pops from planet to planet, once one gets full and another needs topping up.
    I dont trust Auto manager,. I guess this is the difference where we had max 25 pops and then things stop on a planet, but now we get hundreds on some planet. pain in the arse.
    Install the auto migration mod, it'll move unemployed and/or homeless pops to worlds with space for you. Saves a stupid amount of work. Keep an eye on your energy though because afaik theres no setting to make it stop below X energy so it'll happily bankrupt you

    Anyhow, relic expansion is neat. The new relic stories are entertaining and the relics themselves come with cool passive and active effects. Performance has improved a bit in the mid and late game making the mid game a lot more playable on large(r/st) maps with lots of AI's but late game is still shit compared to older versions. I also noticed the game keeps shifting around my pops between jobs on the planet a lot (Like a lot a lot) so its hardly a surprise performance tanks once there's 50k+ pops in the galaxy if it does that on every planet in the game.

    On my current game im just going around cracking all the filthy xeno planets to see if that helps performance



  5. #4465
    Venec's Avatar
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    So what's the next DLC will be about?

  6. #4466
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    Had a few games up to late game crisis (or not, they happen pretty late if at all, perhaps just chance) and I am unsure as to whether all the additions are actually improvements or not.

    The archeology is OK but everything tends to be just overpowered and tend to make everything a bit too easy, even on Grand Admiral. The Fen Habbanis one also seems to be pretty much guaranteed which is rather stupid. The rewards are just way to strong.

    Usually playing on 1000+ stars and close to max empires so the slowdown once the map is claimed is real. Once everyone starts spamming planets and habs etc it gets real slow, one day a second or so for me. The pop management is a total pain, game I have on the go now I have 20 or so gaia's with my Xenophobe/Militarist Deneb Humans and everyone else crammed onto Prison Worlds which are pop controlled, have to manually do it all because it likes to move my prisoners out of the prisons. Ascension perks are also a bit janky again, finding myself just saving one or more up because most of them are just shite and really don't make a great deal of difference. The market also makes the game stupidly easy, would seem you have to actually ban yourself from using it to create challenge now. Auto sectors are also terrible especially if you want to create vassals giving specific systems which you cannot do now. AI is still really stupid without mods, for example it just spams Habs then does not colonize them.

    If I had to predict what is coming in 2.4 would probably say diplomacy, espionage and primitive interaction.

    *
      Spoiler:
    The Grand Herald is fucking ridiculous, no idea who thought a free end game equipped Titan before 2300 was a good idea? Its instant win and guaranteed to drop somewhere so if your angry rival gets it your fucked, royally. The Fen Habbanis one is a relic world which you convert to a Ecumenopolis rather easily.

  7. #4467

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      Spoiler:
    As strong as it is, The Grand Herald is a bit of a glass cannon. It's good for knocking over bastions and absorbing alpha strikes since it usually engages the enemy first. But if used incorrectly, such as jumping it unsupported deep into enemy territory, or attempting to fight space monsters with equivalent paper fleet power, it is actually pretty easy to lose. I'm not sure how unbalanced it is in multiplayer, but I wouldn't expect the AI to actually use it to its full potential early in the game.

  8. #4468
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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      Spoiler:
    i've lost my Herald to the Shard. Motherfucker basically alphad him - one second it was 100%, then gone

  9. #4469

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    Anyway, from the latest beta patch notes:

      Spoiler:

    Grand Herald
    Although we like how the Grand Herald can change the game quite a lot, we think it was a bit too common and too easy to get so early on. The Grand Herald site now spawns less frequently and the site difficulty is higher. When you complete the site, there is a chance that you find the Grand Herald in a weakened state. In that case it will be possible to restore it to its full glory.

  10. #4470
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    nice

    naisss

  11. #4471
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    An enemy getting the grand herald is actually even better than having it yourself. You just Corvette swarm it because it can't hit small ships. Scan the wreck and boom end game tech 30 years in

    Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Tapatalk

  12. #4472

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    45 years in, they have twice as many pops as the non-FE empires. This might be a short game.


  13. #4473
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  14. #4474
    Kraken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    i started watching this yesterday i had to give in after 5mins. it didnt go anywhere, it was getty images and he underpronounced 'th' sounds everywhere, so something was somefing etc, and i couldnt help but notice it be so jarring against his 'posh' character.
    Last edited by Kraken; July 15 2019 at 07:01:47 PM.

  15. #4475
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    Turns out triggering the L-gate 81 years into the game with a fleet strength of 4,5K might have been a bit rash.....
    For some reason thought they still could come through my gate even thought it was specified it could not.

    Defeated one 24k fleet due to space station and disruptor weapons, but 2 other civs declared war, raders turned up and and 2 more 34k fleets showed up before i called it quits.

  16. #4476
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    Turns out triggering the L-gate 81 years into the game with a fleet strength of 4,5K might have been a bit rash.....
    For some reason thought they still could come through my gate even thought it was specified it could not.

    Defeated one 24k fleet due to space station and disruptor weapons, but 2 other civs declared war, raders turned up and and 2 more 34k fleets showed up before i called it quits.
    That's odd, they're not supposed to come through the gate that opened up the L cluster. Used to be one of my favorite strats to burn the Galaxy. Maybe they changed it or maybe it's some bug

    Sent from my Moto Z2 Play using Tapatalk

  17. #4477
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    I find sometimes they can, when it’s fleets that exited a gate in an unowned system and their shortest path to attack something is back home and out of your gate. Ymmv.

  18. #4478

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    Also your gate is only locked for a short period of time - one year I think?

  19. #4479
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    can someone explain what the fuck game i'm playing and how everything works?

    i havn't played since leviathans and i reinstalled on a whim

    no fucking idea

  20. #4480
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teds :D View Post
    can someone explain what the fuck game i'm playing and how everything works?

    i havn't played since leviathans and i reinstalled on a whim

    no fucking idea
    Paradox delivering patches years after release?

    Shocking!

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

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