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Thread: Total War: WARHAMMER

  1. #1221

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    I haven't tested, but i doubt Copters could take Waystalkers if he gives them any kind of support. I'm not even sure how would they would do against the Waystalkers WITHOUT support.

  2. #1222

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    mounted dragon lord would do nasty things to them unless i bring a thunderer or 2 too
    psycho freak > BBC fleet


  3. #1223

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    Quote Originally Posted by BOOLER View Post
    mounted dragon lord would do nasty things to them unless i bring a thunderer or 2 too
    Shit, in melee if you aren't careful even cheapass Eagles would handle them.

  4. #1224

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    i'll give them a blast then and see how they work
    psycho freak > BBC fleet


  5. #1225

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    Yeah, dorf VS WElf is just a bad match up if they properly micro their kiting. You're just so damn slow. The only "fast" unit is Slayers and they are fucking expensive.

    As Chaos I just bum rush them. If I don't have an air force my Centaurs and hounds are able to chase them down. Their infantry get annihilated by Forsaken and the Aspired Champs can take care of Treekin. A good micro kiter still gets me though.

    Aspired Champs are just an amazing unit. They take forever to die and do magic damage. And Chaos lords or so easy to snipe so the leadership buffs are nice.

  6. #1226

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    dorf can smash them if you are facing an infantry/archer spam army. Even with the waystalker/lord snipe combo I can usually take them right to the end and make it tough for them but they hurt so many units whilst my stunted friends trot slowly towards them. Even worse if they are hiding in trees somewhere and I have to find the cunts.
    I have seen loads of times an arrows of kurnous aimed well taking half a unit of longbeards in one shot.
    psycho freak > BBC fleet


  7. #1227
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    has anyone seen a break down of what the actual numbers are behind the spells?

    there was this - https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2nebq4n76...ables.pdf?dl=0 but it's from way back before any dlc and thus misses all the actual good lores (life, beasts, wild)

    i specifically want to know because i see a lot of people spam flock of doom (lore of beasts) but think devolve (lore of wild) is better. +50% cost, but also +60% duration, so i feel that balances out. same 'descriptions' for damage but also leadership debuff. i wanna know if the damage is actually significantly different and that's why people use flock of doom, or there's some other reason.

    taking devolve also means you can take 'bestial surge' (shaman ability for lore of wild) which is a map wide speed/vigour buff when casting. when compared to no buff for lore of beast surely devolve wins hands down?

    edit: found it

    http://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/Winds_of_Magic

    so i guess the trade of with flock vs devolve is:

    Flock:
    cost - 6
    recharge - 32 secs
    casting time - 1 sec
    AoE - 30m
    range - 200m
    duration - 7 sec
    chance(?) - 15% (i take this as % hit chance per affected model)
    AP damage - 18
    max damaged entities (?) - 6

    Devolve:
    cost - 9 +50%
    recharge - 63 +50.7%
    casting time - 3 sec +300%
    AoE - 45 +50%
    range - 200m
    duration - 11 sec +63.6%
    chance - 25% +60%
    AP damage - 36 +100%
    max damaged entities - 4 -50%

    so you cast devolve half as often, but does twice as much damage. so same DPS. BUT each model affected has +60% to be hit by devolve, and is leadership debuffed. casting time doesn't matter imo as it's the kind of thing you cast into ongoing melee blobs, your target isn't going anywhere in 3 seconds.

    it kinda comes down to whatever the fuck 'max damaged entities' means. it's 6 for flock of doom, but i know you can damage more than 6 models with that spell, and it's not the max number of units affected becuase that's a seperate stat and is listed as 'unlimited' for both spells. any guesses?

    also just noticed some of the stats are already wrong. they're both 30m AoE now, so must have been tweaked.
    Last edited by Shiodome; January 9 2017 at 12:18:22 PM.

  8. #1228

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    Maybe its something like maximum damage ticks per model?

  9. #1229

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    Max damaged entities would also be a concern, at only 4. That might mean if there's a huge blob of stuff you're casting on it targets the heroes/lords 1st and then the other units. Meaning it would get kind of wasted. Best way would be to do some unit testing. Take a super beefy intantry unit and let them get surrounded by zombies, then try to 2 spells and measure the damage/time.

    I've had a half dozen fights as the Everchosen recently. Archaeon and Chosen units only. I don't always win but my army dies to the last man.

  10. #1230
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    the wiki states:

    Effected Units: No Limit
    for both spells, but now i'm wondering if that just means unit type (i.e large, flier, infantry, etc). which would allow max damaged entities to be number of units affected. 4 is good enough, as really most of it's use comes early in the melee engagement before things blob up. later on you either have dead spellcasters, low winds of magic, or everything is so battered that even hitting only 4 targets of any type is worthwhile.

    in a perfect scenario though:

    flock:
    hitting 6 units of 100 models with 100hp each
    15% of models hit = 90 hits
    18 damage x 19 = 342 damage

    devolve:
    hitting 4 units of 100 models with 100hp each
    25% of models hit = 100 hits
    100 damage x 36 = 360

    devolve lasts twice as long but recharges at half the speed. so you can kind of ignore the 'time' factor as it's essentially equal.

    so really devolve is doing 5% more damage and it's leadership debuff for +50% winds of magic cost.
    devolve is doing significantly more damage in situations where you can't hit >4 enemy units. which i feel is the majority of times.
    flock does more burst damage. i.e you can cast flock 2 times for every 1 you cast devolve (casting cool down), but in this case costs more winds of magic.

    so i would:

    use flock against deathstar builds with high leadership. dwarves, woodelves (treekin/durthu builds), chaos. the damage applies better and the leadership debuff won't have much effect
    use devolve against more traditional builds that use a wide front with low leadership (orcs, humans, beastmen, vampires*). equal or better damage, useful leadership debuff.

    *reducing vampire leadership speeds up crumbling, and their leadership is generally terrible. so worth it, you just don't normally get to fuck with their leadership in the normal ways due to 'immune to psychology'.

    <science> this is scratching the old EvE ship setups meta itch i thought had died years ago :3
    Last edited by Shiodome; January 9 2017 at 04:12:24 PM.

  11. #1231

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    If you like EFT testing in WAH download the the mod: Any unit can be a "lord".

    It let's you do head to head tests without using a Lord to mess things up. I've been using it to test Dragon Ogres and such against enemy Cav. I learned 1 unit of Dragon Ogres can easily beat Demis with Halberds but lose against 2 Boar Boi bigguns. It's neat to test things out like that BEFORE getting hosed in MP.

    @Shiodome: I'll add you on Steam when I get home. Where's the info for FHC TS3?

  12. #1232

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    I'm pretty sure the Max Damage Entities is not how many units it hits. It's how many "models" in a hit unit that take damage at once. I read a realllly in depth post on this, but have lost it.

    Basically, Devolve hits less men at once in a unit, but does more damage to them (each man has X hp). That means it's better against smaller, high HP units and less efficient at wiping out low HP hordes.

    There is more to do t than that....models have a chance to resist each damage tick and other stuff, but that's the gist of it.

  13. #1233

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    Disregard puny magic.
    Skulls for the Skull Throne.
    Blood for the Blood God.
    Chosen only!

  14. #1234

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    Disregard puny magic.
    Skulls for the Skull Throne.
    Blood for the Blood God.
    Chosen only!
    do you not take some aspiring champs with your chosen horde? they are cheap and magic damage is p nice (unless you are fighting dorf i spose, although angrund heroes they would demolish)
    psycho freak > BBC fleet


  15. #1235
    Donor Shiodome's Avatar
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    i am so bad for at this game. forgot key units entirely 3 games in a row multiplayer.

    using VC i forgot THREE units of crypt horrors becuase i got tunnel vision on micro for my lord/cav
    using WE i forgot my spellsinger with healing spell... the linchpin of the army
    using dwarves i forgot the abilities on two runelords.

    fucking derplord. reminds me of early EvE pvp experiences, where nothing was habit yet and i'd forget basic shit (e.g drones, activating hardeners, using dscan) ALL the time.

  16. #1236
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    Are any of the Orc Horde factions playable in any of the DLC?

    Me and the GF lost our VC/Chaos coop campaign.

    Apparently me being on legendary difficulty and her being on easy result in us both just getting facerolled.



    But would maybe like to try a different faction, I still want a horde one tho. Maybe just a restart will do. On Normal or something.

    Also can't seem to get mods working even if we get the same mods? Anyone else experienced this with coop multiplayer? is there a fix?

  17. #1237

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    Yeah, you can play Crooked Moon with the "King and Warlord" DLC, and the Bloody hand was i think free with Wurrzag? And of course normal Greenskins.

    Not tried mods with MP yet....i'm starting a new game with my brother this week, i'll try it out.

  18. #1238
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    OH damn. I missed free shit.

    I'm getting old/slow.

  19. #1239

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    Wurrzag is great too, get on that shit dude!

  20. #1240
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    Grreat proffitt! *chuckle*

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