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Thread: FC in practise?

  1. #1

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    FC in practise?

    My name is Hinterwaeldler, and I'm a carebear. Sometimes during my eve career I became incredibly risk averse, only engaging stuff when the cards where so heavily stacked in my favor that I might as well have engaged an npc. But I have been working on that, reading a lot, watching videos and practicing.

    Now to the topic at hand. I'm trying to lead small fleets with my corp. I have never done much FCing in the past, and I have either flown in absurdly large fleets in 0.0 or "solo" (me and my alt). I find it much more difficult finding good information about FCing compared to general PVP. I have a few areas that I'm working on (target finding, fleet composition), but mostly I lack experience. So I'm looking for a way to participate in small fleets to learn from other FC's (without cutting the ties to my existing corp). So to ask bluntly: would you be willing to take me along on a roam of yours?

  2. #2
    Smarnca's Avatar
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    lol k

    thursday at 20:00

    i'm bad tho

    Careful not head hit on rock!
    laughs in Slovenian

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    thursday at 20:00
    Great :-) Send me a message in game where I should be and what I should bring

  4. #4
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Are you aware of NPSI communities? RvB Ganked, Spectre Fleet, etc? Varying quality of pilots, FCs, fit themes, etc. A lot of learning to roll with it, & plans that can overcome things not going to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    Are you aware of NPSI communities? RvB Ganked, Spectre Fleet, etc? Varying quality of pilots, FCs, fit themes, etc. A lot of learning to roll with it, & plans that can overcome things not going to them.
    I was not aware of them, just looked them up. Very interesting concept, thank you :-)

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    lol k

    thursday at 20:00

    i'm bad tho
    Or i'm the one with downs lol you would punch a kid with downs if he doesnt listen? Lol.

  7. #7
    Smarnca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    lol k

    thursday at 20:00

    i'm bad tho
    Or i'm the one with downs lol you would punch a kid with downs if he doesnt listen? Lol.
    hahahahha

    Careful not head hit on rock!
    laughs in Slovenian

  8. #8
    HEY LOOK AT ME I HAVE A TITAN LordsServant's Avatar
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    FCing is actually super easy.

    In no particular order:

    Sound confident at all times.

    Project what you feel is appropriate to the fleet at the time. Fleet panicking or nervous? Be very calm, speak deliberately and sound like you're completely in control of the situation. Want to hype people up? Do lots of cocaine and scream about how we're gonna "wreck these motherfuckers" and use w/e catchphrases are appropriate to the situation (elo does this a lot).

    Ensure that everyone you are responsible for knows what they should be doing to the T at all times.*

    * when FCing various kinds of fleets, it becomes hard to do this. This rule can be broken depending on the group you're in, and what size your fleet is.

    Try to keep your fleet engaged at all times. For example this video is an example of how NOT to do it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNquI7OIDRg&t=208

    You can see him very rarely calling targets consistently. He starts out ok, but begins to make mistake after mistake. He waits until the thing they're shooting is already dead, THEN calls a secondary. You can see, esp from our POV, that guns are idle on his fleet far too often.

    Another mistake he makes is target calling. His fleet is apparently comprised primarily of thoraxes. This means that they deal near exclusively kin/therm damage, and don't have a huge tank. He calls Deimos after Deimos, with the odd Zealot as well.

    Deimos are almost the WORST thing to shoot at with that fleet - they have very strong kin/therm resists. Shooting a well tanked zealot is also awful as well. To compound things further, he stays on targets for long periods of time, when it is VERY clear that reps have landed. Even if you're eventually burning through stuff, staying on such well-tanked targets through reps is lots of wasted dps, giving the hostiles even more time to murder his fleet.

    What he should've done is to concentrate on murdering the hostile dps. All of those thoraxes on grid, while dealing less dps than a Deimos, are basically made of tinfoil. They are high dps, extremely low tank, and should be shot much earlier than Deimos and Zealots, the two highest tanks on the opposing field.

    You cannot hear me FCing in this video, but if you skip to 13:00 in you can see what I mean:

    http://www.twitch.tv/lords_serv/b/634590741

    Despite them having enough reps on field to tank a t1 BS (you can see me primary the armageddon initially) I rapidly swap through their flimsiest dps ships in rapid order, reducing their incoming dps far enough to make it incredibly simple despite their overwhelming ewar advantage (scorpion + 2x neuting geddons) to keep our ships alive.

    That isn't to say you should ignore hostile ewar. Keep an eye out for things like neuts or ecm, and be aware of where they are on the field to your important stuff. I am incredibly sloppy and my FCing falls down to your average nullbloc shitler's level due to me running 7 accounts in that video, but through excellent communication from my fleet members, I am able to know how we stand in terms of reps and how their ewar is affecting us.

    Finally, know when to disengage, or when retreating can lead to better terrain. In the case of a fight with Arctic Light I had a while ago, they had an overwhelming armor fleet, and despite us breaking their reps, we were entirely neuted out logi-wise, and bleeding ships fast. I made the call to pull through the wormhole, giving us an EHP advantage in a pulsar (despite buffing their neuts) and reducing their ehp advantage even further.

    Knowing your fleet is important as well. In that fight, I knew that they had much more neuts than we did, but the only advantage those neuts gave was a reduction in our reps. I knew that our primary dps was gilas, which use no cap for tanking or dps.

    Once in the pulsar, I focused on rapidly eliminating their only advantage - reps. With them having no reps, and us having our's neuted out, it was a simple dps/ehp race. Gilas win that vs t3s hands down, especially given that we were in a pulsar to compensate for our slightly lower numbers.

    http://rgrol.eve-vippy.com/killboard/related/345/

    I'm not really sure where I was going here, but there's a few friendly pointers and examples, I'm happy to give advice or w/e if you want it.

    I am a Lamborghini tractor.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinterwaeldler View Post

    I was not aware of them, just looked them up. Very interesting concept, thank you :-)
    Its not just them.

  10. #10
    roigon's Avatar
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    Lords goes a bit deep, but the two key points are worth repeating.
    - Sound confident and don't second guess yourself. Even if it makes the fleet burn in a fire, lessons learned. Better to whelp the fleet on your command, then whelp the fleet because you didn't give a command.
    - Keep talking, even if it's just repeating stuff. Keeps the fleet engaged with what is happening, and focused on what they should be doing.

    Ship knowledge and fleet composition knowledge is p. important. Knowing your own fleets capabilities and a targets capabilities is key in knowing what fights to take and to avoid. But beyond the theory there's really only 1 way to learn, just whelp fleets a lot.

    As a minimum though, know your kiters vs brawlers, know your e-war/recons, know your DPS vs. logi rep amount. The later can be avoided by just not bringing logi and not engaging fleets with more then 3 logi. You get more fights without logi anyway. Bring damps. Everyone loves damps.


    Agony PVP-U has a FC class, but I don't think they've held it in while.
    The page still has some useful info though, as well as the 3 links to bamar, glepp and greygal's articles on FC'ing.
    http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/...eet_Commanders

    If you've never attended PVP-U I'd recommend taking basic & wolfpack. Beyond the classes themselves the accompanying roam will give you a textbook example of FC'ing. Scouts and FC will generally exaggerate communication and explain fleet decisions for the benefit of the students.

    Tagging along with a tight group of small gang pvp'ers you will notice that they will generally only communicate the absolute minimum because everyone is expected to know what to do and keep track of everything.
    Which might not work for your own fleets because "well you didn't tell me to hold cloak", "oh sorry I can't jump I just aggressed this ibis on the gate", "did he say jump?"

  11. #11

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    Come to thera, join some of our small gangs- you will learn quickly. Hit me up ingame if interested

  12. #12

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    Lords, thank you for your input (although I must admid I didn't really get what was going on during the 2nd video :-)

    Roigon, nice wrap up of the key points, and thank you for the links to agony, I looked up their page and found this fleet command seminar in their archives:
    http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/...OMMAND_Seminar
    Do you know if agony requires me to join them with my main or can the character be in another corp / can I send an alt?

    And chessur, I enjoyed your videos on eveiseasy, would love to fly with you guys, I will contact you in a few days.

  13. #13
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Just say everything 3 times and get louder every time (jump, jump, jump, primary is ..., primary is ..., primary is ... and so on), never ever stop talking (!!!!!), this is mainly cause it keeps you focused because once you start to think you will chocke up (just keep repeating over and over, primary is, secondary is, primary is, secondery is, secondary is primary, new secondary is.....). Also, start cheap and start every roam with "if anyone is not okay with dying horribly please leave my fleet", as long as you do kill something and you engage stuff people will like your fleets, fleets only get toxic if you have to achieve something and you fail (i.e. if you have to defend a poco or similar) or if people expect to keep their ship or get it reeimbursed or similar and they die so make your conditions clear. Also try to fc as simple a fleet as possible, mallers or vexors or similar are great for that.

    If you are really scared join the test server with your fleet (either tell them straight up that you need some practice or lie and tell them that they need practice or make up another reason) a few days beforehand and kill anything in the combat areas in the fleet you want to run (do not get 10 vindicators and 2 triage archons cause you can, practice what you will actually be using). Its a no preassure situation and it is pretty fun.



    Expect your pilots to be utter garbage piloting wise for the first few fleets (it is common that seasoned pvpers dont activate their hardeners if they have any, dont turn off their mwd, never switch ammo and so on), people very very rarely admit mistakes and they fuck up constantly, in a fleet there is so much going on that quite a few people will get overloaded and just do dumb stuff, just hope its not your logis that are chocking up. However, expect the same vs most fleets that you will fight (vs most fleets you can savely half the tank/dps that they have on grid).


    Lastly, i would advise against taking what you learn when/if you do fly with chessur and his gang to much to heart, the level of skill in their fleets is way to high to be able to transfer what you learned to your own fleet, you will have to babysit your fleet way more (its like if you watch a movie and there is the elite commando unit that works perfectly well with few precice orders because everyone knows exactly what they are supposed to do and then you have the grunts that have to be told when to go to the toilet cause they cant think for themselfs at all).
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  14. #14
    roigon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinterwaeldler View Post
    Roigon, nice wrap up of the key points, and thank you for the links to agony, I looked up their page and found this fleet command seminar in their archives:
    http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/...OMMAND_Seminar
    Do you know if agony requires me to join them with my main or can the character be in another corp / can I send an alt?
    Nope, agony runs PVP-U as a side project, so all you need to do is keep a watch out on the enrollement thread and sign up when they open up a thread for basics.
    http://moldenheath.net/index.php?board=72.0

  15. #15
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Personally I couldn't stand FCs that couldn't stop repeating the same single thing, be it superfast or clearly. They tend to tunnelvision and leave no room for people taking the initiative to give useful information & observations, or suggestions. Or even just reminding DPS pilots to keep working on staying in range/manage their transv/correct ammo loading would be better.

    Whatever you do, only call every target by the first 3 characters of their name. Just don't try say character names, it always breaks down & fails.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; March 17 2015 at 03:19:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  16. #16
    Super Baderator DonorGlobal Moderator cullnean's Avatar
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    Call all fleets "diaf"

    Easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Cullneshi the god of shitposting.

  17. #17
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Good advice for 0.0 and large gangs but not so much for 1-15 small gangs.

    A lot of what people are saying here re shouting, repeating themselves 5 times ect, i find only applies when flying with people you don't know, or retards, or if you know nobody in the fleet will have anything intelligent or important to say that you might miss because you are repeating the same order 5 times over, then yeah, repeat yourself 5 times and shout over anyone.

  18. #18

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    What is a good way to organize E-War spreading?

    Imagine you have in your fleet 4 fregates with one unbonused tracking disruptor each. Your group engages two turret cruisers. One will be primary, and all damage is applied to him. But I would like E-War to be spread out between the two of them without telling each pilot what he should disrupt. For tackling I designated a "secondary tackler" during fleet setup. I could do the same for Tracking Disruptors (you two disrupt the primary, you two the secondary ...) but that doesn't really scale well ... any ideas?

  19. #19
    Clovnea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinterwaeldler View Post
    What is a good way to organize E-War spreading?

    Imagine you have in your fleet 4 fregates with one unbonused tracking disruptor each. Your group engages two turret cruisers. One will be primary, and all damage is applied to him. But I would like E-War to be spread out between the two of them without telling each pilot what he should disrupt. For tackling I designated a "secondary tackler" during fleet setup. I could do the same for Tracking Disruptors (you two disrupt the primary, you two the secondary ...) but that doesn't really scale well ... any ideas?
    Usually you tell the pilots to look at their place in fleet and try to track disrupt or point people in the same place in overview (when sorted by name). It is not perfect system but it is simple enough and it is very effective especially when the FC yells: "SPREAD POINTS SPREAD POINTS !!!"

  20. #20

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    I want my frigate fleet to move coherently on grid. I can either tell them all to align to the same spot or to keep range at me, what would work better?

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