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Thread: Holistic healing

  1. #1
    SteeleResolve's Avatar
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    Holistic healing

    Someone very close to me has a longstanding physical condition. Fibromyalgia and ME

    As such, they have started to do some more holistic type therapies that aren't cheap. The type that are holistic, as per the thread title, and I would be interested in your input on such techniques.

    I'm quite cynical of such means.

    Discuss

  2. #2
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Holistic is a meaningless word. What do they mean? What are they going to do?

    This can be anything from your specialists cooperating synergistically to hippie-health-blogger-bullshit.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    Holistic is a meaningless word. What do they mean? What are they going to do?

    This can be anything from your specialists cooperating synergistically to hippie-health-blogger-bullshit.
    My money is on "they are getting ripped off by someone abusing their desperation" as well.

    But you really haven't given us any information apart from an alarm-sounding buzzword.
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  4. #4
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    Well on the bright side Fibro is just something she will have to suffer through every day of her life; so wasting time with holistic shit isn't gonna kill her like Steve Job.

  5. #5
    Paradox's Avatar
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    If she thinks it helps and she can afford it... whatever.

    I do find profiting from desperation to be repugnant though.


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  6. #6
    Seamus's Avatar
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    Placebo effect is creepily important, if they have the mindset to believe in that shit then it'll help to some degree. Just try to find the least shitty conniving quack. In fact finding one who believes in their own bullshit would probably be great for the positive mental attitude side of it all.
    "But the vast majority of this forum is European and/or highly urbanized and quite liberal in their firearms views. Take this discussion to ih8mud.com (Toyota Land Cruiser forum) or even knifeforums.com and you'd see the opposite."
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  7. #7
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    I generally support the idea behind it, but I find the means to be questionable. Alot of the people I've met who deal with these different techniques seem to genuinely believe in what they do, but the problem is that it's a business. One big sign of warning for me is how everything is run by marketing, with trends coming and going (a bit like diets). 15 years ago kabbalah was a part of mental healing in alot of new age books. Now you don't find anything at all about kabbalah. Why remove it if it worked? To me it seems that the people at the top are just exhausting different trends to milk as much money as possible before moving on the new one.

    If it works for your someone, I wouldn't see a problem with it. It's not like they're ripping you off more than medical companies.

  8. #8
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itiniti View Post
    It's not like they're ripping you off more than medical companies.
    bold claim.

    Very bold, in fact.
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  9. #9
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    The placebo effect might be important but if you're spending a lot of money on it you're simply allowing charlatans to take you for a ride.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post

    bold claim.

    Very bold, in fact.
    I'd never advice someone to refrain from medical treatment in favour of alternative medicine. But I don't see it as a problem if someone chooses to do it as a complement.

  11. #11
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by itiniti View Post
    alternative medicine.
    a falsifying euphemism
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  12. #12
    Pegging Specialist Donor indi's Avatar
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    I think the holistic approach makes sense. Before you shoot me, let me explain. Treating one or two processes in the body (or functions, or whatever) certainly has effects elsewhere too. It's better to look at the whole. Bit like a healthy lifestyle: it's not just eating well, it's also exercising and making sure you get enough sleep.

    There are plenty of therapies that used to be considered "alternative" and are now more mainstream. Having said that, there's also a lot of shall we say, exploitation of desperation. That type seems to thrive on charging exorbitant fees; maybe their victims' belief hinges on the amount of extortion ("if it's this expensive and people pay that, it MUST work")

    Perhaps your friend would be better served with undertaking some action him/herself. Changing your diet has beneficial effects for most people. By that I don't mean to just cut out gluten and munch chia seeds or whatever the latest craze is. I mean: making sure you ingest more vegetables and fruit than you used to, reducing sugar, limiting the amount of fats consumed to a reasonable amount, not drinking 15 cups of coffee a day, etc. It is no longer speculation that certain food patterns encourage inflammation and others reduce it. It's not a miracle cure by any means, but it could help. Similarly with regards to - however difficult - exercise. Maybe swimming is an option? Then there's things like regular meditation, making sure you get enough sleep, etc. That is the kind of approach that I do believe in (and that's not expensive apart from the food - fresh produce is always more expensive than shitty food). Common sense and personal experience.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteeleResolve View Post
    Someone very close to me has a longstanding physical condition. Fibromyalgia and ME

    As such, they have started to do some more holistic type therapies that aren't cheap. The type that are holistic, as per the thread title, and I would be interested in your input on such techniques.

    I'm quite cynical of such means.

    Discuss
    You can in the thread.

  14. #14
    Smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by indi View Post
    I think the holistic approach makes sense. Before you shoot me, let me explain. Treating one or two processes in the body (or functions, or whatever) certainly has effects elsewhere too. It's better to look at the whole. Bit like a healthy lifestyle: it's not just eating well, it's also exercising and making sure you get enough sleep.

    There are plenty of therapies that used to be considered "alternative" and are now more mainstream. Having said that, there's also a lot of shall we say, exploitation of desperation. That type seems to thrive on charging exorbitant fees; maybe their victims' belief hinges on the amount of extortion ("if it's this expensive and people pay that, it MUST work")

    Perhaps your friend would be better served with undertaking some action him/herself. Changing your diet has beneficial effects for most people. By that I don't mean to just cut out gluten and munch chia seeds or whatever the latest craze is. I mean: making sure you ingest more vegetables and fruit than you used to, reducing sugar, limiting the amount of fats consumed to a reasonable amount, not drinking 15 cups of coffee a day, etc. It is no longer speculation that certain food patterns encourage inflammation and others reduce it. It's not a miracle cure by any means, but it could help. Similarly with regards to - however difficult - exercise. Maybe swimming is an option? Then there's things like regular meditation, making sure you get enough sleep, etc. That is the kind of approach that I do believe in (and that's not expensive apart from the food - fresh produce is always more expensive than shitty food). Common sense and personal experience.
    I expected better from you Indi.



  15. #15
    Pegging Specialist Donor indi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by indi View Post
    I think the holistic approach makes sense. Before you shoot me, let me explain. Treating one or two processes in the body (or functions, or whatever) certainly has effects elsewhere too. It's better to look at the whole. Bit like a healthy lifestyle: it's not just eating well, it's also exercising and making sure you get enough sleep.

    There are plenty of therapies that used to be considered "alternative" and are now more mainstream. Having said that, there's also a lot of shall we say, exploitation of desperation. That type seems to thrive on charging exorbitant fees; maybe their victims' belief hinges on the amount of extortion ("if it's this expensive and people pay that, it MUST work")

    Perhaps your friend would be better served with undertaking some action him/herself. Changing your diet has beneficial effects for most people. By that I don't mean to just cut out gluten and munch chia seeds or whatever the latest craze is. I mean: making sure you ingest more vegetables and fruit than you used to, reducing sugar, limiting the amount of fats consumed to a reasonable amount, not drinking 15 cups of coffee a day, etc. It is no longer speculation that certain food patterns encourage inflammation and others reduce it. It's not a miracle cure by any means, but it could help. Similarly with regards to - however difficult - exercise. Maybe swimming is an option? Then there's things like regular meditation, making sure you get enough sleep, etc. That is the kind of approach that I do believe in (and that's not expensive apart from the food - fresh produce is always more expensive than shitty food). Common sense and personal experience.
    I expected better from you Indi.
    I'll listen to you when you aren't trolling.

  16. #16
    Keckers's Avatar
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    I find it strange how encouraging people to eat healthily and have a more active lifestyle is considered treatment or medicine.

  17. #17
    Pacefalm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    Placebo effect is creepily important, if they have the mindset to believe in that shit then it'll help to some degree. Just try to find the least shitty conniving quack. In fact finding one who believes in their own bullshit would probably be great for the positive mental attitude side of it all.
    This is a fundamental misunderstanding about the placebo effect. The placebo effect is often regarded as "if you believe in it, it works a little bit". But this is not true. It is purely a psychological effect that makes patients REPORT they feel better, but there is zero evidence that their condition actually improves. In other words, a group of people that is given nothing and a group of people that is given placebo's will both recover equally as fast. There is no real "effect" there, just a bias that has to be taken into account when depending on self-reported wellbeing for the purpose of medicine efficacy tests.
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  18. #18
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by indi View Post
    I think the holistic approach makes sense. Before you shoot me, let me explain. Treating one or two processes in the body (or functions, or whatever) certainly has effects elsewhere too. It's better to look at the whole. Bit like a healthy lifestyle: it's not just eating well, it's also exercising and making sure you get enough sleep.

    There are plenty of therapies that used to be considered "alternative" and are now more mainstream. Having said that, there's also a lot of shall we say, exploitation of desperation. That type seems to thrive on charging exorbitant fees; maybe their victims' belief hinges on the amount of extortion ("if it's this expensive and people pay that, it MUST work")

    Perhaps your friend would be better served with undertaking some action him/herself. Changing your diet has beneficial effects for most people. By that I don't mean to just cut out gluten and munch chia seeds or whatever the latest craze is. I mean: making sure you ingest more vegetables and fruit than you used to, reducing sugar, limiting the amount of fats consumed to a reasonable amount, not drinking 15 cups of coffee a day, etc. It is no longer speculation that certain food patterns encourage inflammation and others reduce it. It's not a miracle cure by any means, but it could help. Similarly with regards to - however difficult - exercise. Maybe swimming is an option? Then there's things like regular meditation, making sure you get enough sleep, etc. That is the kind of approach that I do believe in (and that's not expensive apart from the food - fresh produce is always more expensive than shitty food). Common sense and personal experience.
    Except you and we all have no idea what "holistic treatment" the person in the OP is actually undergoing.

    A holistic treatment in actual medicine would be bringing different doctors from different fields together.

    You're simply giving dietary advice..which is cool, but not really relevant :f

    There are plenty of therapies that used to be considered "alternative" and are now more mainstream
    Strong nope. If it is actual, science-based medicine, the term for new treatments is "experimental".

    If it can't be verified but you want to sell it for $$$, then the term is 'alternative medicine' so you can't get sued for malpractice/fraud and don't have to take any actual responsibility.

    There simply isn't an alternative to medicine, just as there is no 'alternative' to statics.

    There are complementary treatments, like physical therapy. But that, too, is an actual natural science about the workings of the body and heavily researched field.
    Last edited by FatFreddy; March 13 2015 at 07:29:33 PM.
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  19. #19
    Seamus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacefalm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    Placebo effect is creepily important, if they have the mindset to believe in that shit then it'll help to some degree. Just try to find the least shitty conniving quack. In fact finding one who believes in their own bullshit would probably be great for the positive mental attitude side of it all.
    This is a fundamental misunderstanding about the placebo effect. The placebo effect is often regarded as "if you believe in it, it works a little bit". But this is not true. It is purely a psychological effect that makes patients REPORT they feel better, but there is zero evidence that their condition actually improves. In other words, a group of people that is given nothing and a group of people that is given placebo's will both recover equally as fast. There is no real "effect" there, just a bias that has to be taken into account when depending on self-reported wellbeing for the purpose of medicine efficacy tests.
    In that case fuck most 'alternative medicine'.

    Interesting though, I've not considered that before, the combination of proper evidence and anecdotal (myself included) looked legit. I'm sure I've read stuff by Ben Goldstein that had it as an actual effect but I'll read more into it either way, Cheers
    "But the vast majority of this forum is European and/or highly urbanized and quite liberal in their firearms views. Take this discussion to ih8mud.com (Toyota Land Cruiser forum) or even knifeforums.com and you'd see the opposite."
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  20. #20
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacefalm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
    Placebo effect is creepily important, if they have the mindset to believe in that shit then it'll help to some degree. Just try to find the least shitty conniving quack. In fact finding one who believes in their own bullshit would probably be great for the positive mental attitude side of it all.
    This is a fundamental misunderstanding about the placebo effect. The placebo effect is often regarded as "if you believe in it, it works a little bit". But this is not true. It is purely a psychological effect that makes patients REPORT they feel better, but there is zero evidence that their condition actually improves. In other words, a group of people that is given nothing and a group of people that is given placebo's will both recover equally as fast. There is no real "effect" there, just a bias that has to be taken into account when depending on self-reported wellbeing for the purpose of medicine efficacy tests.
    In that case fuck most 'alternative medicine'.

    Interesting though, I've not considered that before, the combination of proper evidence and anecdotal (myself included) looked legit. I'm sure I've read stuff by Ben Goldstein that had it as an actual effect but I'll read more into it either way, Cheers
    Nope, pacefalm is p. spot on.

    If the topic intrigues you, look into pain therapy and the problems surrounding it, for example that you can't even really measure pain because it's always a completely subjective statement by the patient which can often be misleading or completely false. It's p. fascinating.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotXenosis View Post

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