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Thread: Idiot want to learn Java.

  1. #1
    Donor lt's Avatar
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    Idiot want to learn Java.

    Do you guys have any books you recommend for the complete beginner? I know that there is a lot of online material but I'd like to have something physical as well.


    -Ihatemyipad-
    Coming soon(tm).


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  2. #2
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    I was learned in Java in community college, set me up really well for rest of my life ,,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

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  3. #3
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Are you learning Java or learning to code?

    I re-learned Java by writing an Android App, can't really recommend any books but if you're going to do a project do that IMHO.

  4. #4
    Donor lt's Avatar
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    Learning to code.
    Coming soon(tm).


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  5. #5
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    How's your understanding of computers/electronics, and maths/logic?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  6. #6
    Donor lt's Avatar
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    Not impressive.
    Coming soon(tm).


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  7. #7
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Going back ~a decade, I didn't find "An Introduction to Object-Oriented Programming with Java" by 'C. Thomas Wu' to be the worst thing as an assigned book for a 1st year comp sci degree course. But I'd already taught myself some Java and other languages, and had a solid background in A-level electronics, as well as the rest of the starting course modules covering the basics of computational theory, logic, algorithms, etc. I wouldn't pay ~50 or however much they're charging students for such things though. Fuck that, torrent a PDF, or just read the free official language intro docs & tutorials.

    My general concern is that going for an OOP language might leave you ignorant of low level memory & processor details, and set you in some bad habits w.r.t. inefficient design because of the abstractions. But that wouldn't be uncommon these days...
    C/C++ is also a solid choice, things like Qt make it easy enough to do OOP with GUIs just as easy as Java.

    Either way, play with Python3 at the same time! You'll be able to see the similaries and differences, and maybe understand the common things happening underneath. Because both are go via a byte-code intermediary language stage, unlike C/C++. At the least, you should be able to pick up on what's common to expect from a programming language & their runtime environment, supporting libraries, utilities, IDEs, etc.
    Last edited by Daneel Trevize; January 27 2015 at 08:25:56 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  8. #8
    Donor lt's Avatar
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    Follow up question (reps will follow when I'm not on tapatalk).

    I'll occasionally have the time to study code while at work, but that means I have to practice code on an iPad. Is that stupid? (Would it be better if I brought my nexus7 along - or is that equally dumb? (I'll get a keyboard for either though)).
    Coming soon(tm).


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  9. #9
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Any full JRE should be effectively the same, regardless of platform. You might not have such a nice IDE or syntax highlighting text editor, but TBH you're probably better off learning the very few steps involved in configuring a CLASSPATH, compiling to .class files, and executing a class. You should be able to seamlessly check in & out even the .class files via a versioning system iirc, but regardless, where you code should have minimal impact on how or what you can code.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  10. #10
    Donor lt's Avatar
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    Great. Now i just need to find a good portable and not-too-easily-broken keyboard. :-)
    Coming soon(tm).


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  11. #11
    Movember 2012 I Legionnaire's Avatar
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    I'd argue against learning Java as your first language tbh, especially considering that you're stuck on a mobile device.

    Check out golang, it has an online playground where you can do most basic programming stuff , https://play.golang.org/.
    If golang isn't your cup of tea check out python via codeacademy or something similar until you want to build actual projects. http://www.codecademy.com/en/tracks/python

    All of the meta shit around programming like UNIX familiarity, version control, databases etc is important but probably not worth diving into for the first month or so until you know the basics of whatever language you decide to go(hint hint) with.


    In contrast to Daneel I'd advise to start simple, with one language in an environment where you don't need to worry about setup. Eventually you'll run into the limitations of that system and be able to explore. Don't miss the trees for the forest.

  12. #12
    Donor lt's Avatar
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    Oh, I'm not stuck on a mobile device, I'll only use it occasionally while at work.
    Coming soon(tm).


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  13. #13
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    Daneel appears to want to teach you computer science, you appear to want to learn some code. With due respect to the field and the incoming response...

    My general concern is that going for an OOP language might leave you ignorant of low level memory & processor details, and set you in some bad habits w.r.t. inefficient design because of the abstractions. But that wouldn't be uncommon these days...
    I disagree with this entirely. While a large scale software developer and/or a "computer scientist" (or an autist) may need or want this information on a very detailed level, a "guy who does some programming work as a side function of a job (i.e. automating simple tasks, etc) or a hobby is unlikely to need it. Rather than the "kids these days don't garbage collect their variables anymore" implication of the final ellipse, I'd say all of this is uncommon these days because it's (mostly) unnecessary.

    Similarly, while the knowledge is good to have, deep understanding of the electronics - level functions of a computer are also unnecessary... logic/algorithm design is where you want to focus.

    In short I recommend focusing on languages that achieve your objective with minimal overhead to you the programmer, rather than a more frustrating or less accessible path that may lower the overhead on a computer by a few %.. we can afford those clock cycles for the most part.


    What exactly is your aim with programming knowledge? Do you have some functional tasks or goals in mind?
    Last edited by Tyrus Tenebros; January 29 2015 at 10:34:49 PM.
    I tried to be cool and all I got was a lousy warning about my sig being too big.

  14. #14
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    I agree that's another angle to approach it from. I just got mine in first is all

    But I'd still say it'd be good to read the Python beginners guide/tutorial at the same rate as the Java one.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  15. #15
    roigon's Avatar
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    Agree with not starting with Java, you'll likely just be overwhelmed and not even sure how to start.

    I won't troll people by mentioning PHP, but give python a shot. Or really any scripting language. They tend to give good feedback about what's going on and it's easy to test stuff and hammer on it until it works.
    I'm personally not a big fan of ruby but I've heard good things about this web-book.
    http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-...chapter-2.html

    Broadly speaking there's 2 sides to programming, there's the actual code, the lines of text where you dictate what the computer should be doing right now, and then there is the abstractions, essentially ways of making it easier for yourself to tell the computer what it should be doing. These are the objects, methods, functions etc, and stuff you use in code to more or less create structure.

    Java tends to lean a lot on the latter, while languages like python or ruby allow more easily to just write code and make it do something. (Please note that this is also quite possible in Java, but less so)

    Now the abstractions are really important, but if you are literally starting from scratch you probably just want to get results fast, make your first program that writes out "Hello world", etc.. without having to worry about anything and just accomplishing just that goal.

    The structuring and object oriented stuff can come later, when you have a feel for how to make the computer actually do things.

    Since you specifically mention books, avoid anything that claims to teach you a language in x hours or days or whatever, they are crap and worthless.

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    I was learned in Java in community college, set me up really well for rest of my life ,,,,
    Well me and the noodles. I've been told the miniaturwunderland is well worth it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  18. #18
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    http://shouldilearnjava.com/index.php

    Yup.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lt View Post
    Learning to code.
    Aeafirstworldproblemsgalore: i think schools like java/python because they're the same wherever you run the code.

  20. #20
    Tailn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lt View Post
    Learning to code.
    Aeafirstworldproblemsgalore: i think schools like java/python because they're the same wherever you run the code.
    So Quackers if that is your opinion of java/python, if you were going to be rewritten what language would you prefer that to be done in?

    "Kerning is serious business"
    And having an image that does not cause Autism attacks even more so.

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