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Thread: Ship Thread - Viper Goes Faster

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by CastleBravo View Post
    If you want to run all lasers for farming, I suggest pulse lasers since they are more cap efficient.
    I like pulses - but not because of the cap use. I think you guys seriously overestimate the difference in firing time between beams and every other weapon out there. The reason I like pulses is because they perform about as well as Beams but allow for better thrusters and sensors. Against Cobras, beams and pulses have very similar TTKs. I expect Anacondas the pulses will be slower, but I haven't faced one yet. If pulses can perform as well against the Anacondas, then I'll keep the pulses.

  2. #42
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CastleBravo View Post
    If you want to run all lasers for farming, I suggest pulse lasers since they are more cap efficient.
    I like pulses - but not because of the cap use. I think you guys seriously overestimate the difference in firing time between beams and every other weapon out there. The reason I like pulses is because they perform about as well as Beams but allow for better thrusters and sensors. Against Cobras, beams and pulses have very similar TTKs. I expect Anacondas the pulses will be slower, but I haven't faced one yet. If pulses can perform as well against the Anacondas, then I'll keep the pulses.
    use burst?

  3. #43
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Coutu View Post

    use burst?
    It sounds like your use case and the use case of most posters is very different. Me personally, i use android because i have female friends.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CastleBravo View Post
    If you want to run all lasers for farming, I suggest pulse lasers since they are more cap efficient.
    I like pulses - but not because of the cap use. I think you guys seriously overestimate the difference in firing time between beams and every other weapon out there. The reason I like pulses is because they perform about as well as Beams but allow for better thrusters and sensors. Against Cobras, beams and pulses have very similar TTKs. I expect Anacondas the pulses will be slower, but I haven't faced one yet. If pulses can perform as well against the Anacondas, then I'll keep the pulses.
    My experience is the exact opposite.

    Cobras and Vipers are sometimes quicker to kill with beams since your cap stores enough juice to deal a significant amount of damage to them before it is drained, and also because you can't keep your sights planted on them for continuous DPS application like you can against an Anaconda.

    The Anaconda on the other hand can tank a significant amount of damage, so your weapon capacitor recharge becomes the limiting factor unless you rely upon projectile or missile weapons. Since the pulse lasers are more cap efficient, your sustained DPS after the cap is empty will be higher than it would be with beams or burst.

    Beams = high burst DPS, low sustained DPS
    Pulses = high sustained DPS, low burst DPS
    Bursts = compromise

    This video is with a Python using large weapons, but I would imagine that you would get similar results with medium and small hardpoints. Pulse lasers were the clear winner for slicing up Anacondas.

    Last edited by CastleBravo; January 26 2015 at 05:56:39 PM.

  5. #45

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    I wonder if both beams and pulses have the same damage fall-off over ranges. And I wonder if that fall-off is the same for every weapon.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland View Post
    I wonder if both beams and pulses have the same damage fall-off over ranges. And I wonder if that fall-off is the same for every weapon.
    Falloff is the same for fixed. Turret performance in this test is influenced by accuracy at range.




  7. #47

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    That's good information there.

  8. #48
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Here is my ratting Viper fit - Tips welcome:

    http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70M,5R...c,7Pc7fO7eI4wE

    Please note -

    Pulse Lasers only due to Ammo costs/re-arm time. I have found rearming to be the bane of my life. If I want to sit in a RES Site or Nav beacon for 2 hours I can.

    Gimballed because I find my actual dps is better than with fixed due to my shitty aiming with my joystick.

    Pulse instead of beam as I found I spent more time re-charging with beam than actually firing, even with 4 pips in weapons. Also Pulse has better armour penetration.

    Chaff launcher is great for enemy missiles and also disrupts enemy gimballed turrets.

    Kill warrant scanner is very handy for increasing bounties - Scan anything that you are going to kill anyway, don't bother scanning if the target is "clean" as you will just get a fine for engaging them in a system they are not wanted in. Locked myself out of 2 systems this way so far.


    Modules that are powered down when hardpoints are deployed :

    FSD
    Fuel Scoop
    2E Shield Cell Bank ( It is just there to provide more charges for the 3B Shield Cell Bank )

    This leaves you at 11.90 out of 12 Powergrid used.



    The 3B Shield Cell bank recharges 119 each charge, total shield strength is 178.5 so you can use this at 1 or 1.5 bars of shield left and have a healthy amount once its topped you up. This helps in tough fights, but you always have the option to run.

    Always keep 150k Credits available for the insurance. However I haven't lost one of these in combat yet. Just boosting into the station walls.

    The fuel scoop is just because this ship has such a terrible jump range and fuel bay, sometimes you might want to top up and can't be bothered to go all the way to the station. This is for those times.

    I don't want a cargo hold as I just seem to get fines for picking up loot in the RES Sites/Nav beacons, as I am working with the local security forces.

    I intend to make a PVP Version of this - but for now this is purely for PVE.

  9. #49

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    Not much use PvPing in a viper these days, unless you go looking for new players. Anybody serious about fighting players is running a Python, Clipper or FDL with a bunch of Vultures & Anacondas thrown in. All of them will either nuke you before you manage to hit the shield cell button or they will run you down easily.

    You might consider upgrading to a Diamondback scout, because its just as fast and has more fitting room:

    [Diamondback Scout]
    S: 1G/G Pulse Laser
    S: 1G/G Pulse Laser
    M: 2F/G Pulse Laser
    M: 2F/G Pulse Laser
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher
    U: 0E Kill Warrant Scanner
    U: 0A Shield Booster
    U: 0A Shield Booster

    BH: 1I Military Grade Composite
    RB: 4A Power Plant
    TM: 4A Thrusters
    FH: 4A Frame Shift Drive
    EC: 2D Life Support
    PC: 3A Power Distributor
    SS: 2D Sensors
    FS: 4C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 16)

    3: 3A Shield Generator
    3: 3A Shield Cell Bank
    3: 3A Shield Cell Bank
    2: 2A Fuel Scoop
    ---
    Shield: 196,57 MJ
    Power : 13,29 MW retracted (85%)
    15,47 MW deployed (99%)
    15,60 MW available
    Cargo : 0 T
    Fuel : 16 T
    Mass : 280,6 T empty
    296,6 T full
    Range : 19,52 LY unladen
    19,52 LY laden
    Price : 7.767.247 CR
    Re-Buy: 388.362 CR @ 95% insurance
    Last edited by Torashuu; June 23 2015 at 09:34:36 AM.

  10. #50
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Cool. At least I know I'll use my Viper to PVE and PVE only. Not much use working on a PVP fit then.

    I think the Vulture is going to be my next ship, but might take a look at the Diamondback as a partial upgrade.

    The only thing is, it doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade... only 20 more shields or so, and the same dps from weapons...


    Also - why do you fit class A shield cell banks?

    Surely you can only keep one powered on anyhow?

    And if it isn't powered on as expected, ie, you have the other just for charges, isn't it better to use a 3E rather than a 3A as its A) Cheaper and B) Holds more charges?

    Also if you look at this table running a 3B will actually net you more shield overall due to the increased amount of charges over an A type?



    Heres what I did to your fit - it holds two more charges and I've upgraded the sensors and K-Scanner with the powergrid saved from the A type downgrade to B on the Shield Cell Bank.

    [Diamondback Scout]
    S: 1G/G Pulse Laser
    S: 1G/G Pulse Laser
    M: 2F/G Pulse Laser
    M: 2F/G Pulse Laser
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher
    U: 0D Kill Warrant Scanner
    U: 0A Shield Booster
    U: 0A Shield Booster

    BH: 1I Military Grade Composite
    RB: 4A Power Plant
    TM: 4A Thrusters
    FH: 4A Frame Shift Drive
    EC: 2D Life Support
    PC: 3A Power Distributor
    SS: 2C Sensors
    FS: 4C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 16)

    3: 3A Shield Generator
    3: 3B Shield Cell Bank
    3: 3A Fuel Scoop
    2: 2E Shield Cell Bank
    ---
    Shield: 196.57 MJ
    Power : 13.10 MW retracted (84%)
    15.48 MW deployed (99%)
    15.60 MW available
    Cargo : 0 T
    Fuel : 16 T
    Mass : 282.6 T empty
    298.6 T full
    Range : 19.39 LY unladen
    19.39 LY laden
    Price : 8,165,994 CR
    Re-Buy: 408,300 CR @ 95% insurance
    Last edited by Sp4m; June 23 2015 at 10:26:13 AM.

  11. #51

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    A SCB gives most shield in a single charge, which is what you want when facing overwhelming firepower (i.e. when you need to use one). For ratting B fit might do fine as well. KWS doesn't really need more then E since all it gets you is range and you're keeping up with all NPCs anyway. Better use it for either sensors yes, maybe lifesupport. Or use it to fit heavier weaponry like Plasma Accelerators. When I was toying around with it, it was basically a Viper with more grid, so I get to cram in all the toys I never could on the Viper.

  12. #52
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torashuu View Post
    A SCB gives most shield in a single charge, which is what you want when facing overwhelming firepower (i.e. when you need to use one). For ratting B fit might do fine as well. KWS doesn't really need more then E since all it gets you is range and you're keeping up with all NPCs anyway. Better use it for either sensors yes, maybe lifesupport. Or use it to fit heavier weaponry like Plasma Accelerators. When I was toying around with it, it was basically a Viper with more grid, so I get to cram in all the toys I never could on the Viper.
    But what's the reload like, 5-10 seconds? Having more sustained shield available seems more of a priority then 3 quick charges for me.

    I go for the K-Scanner as if we have a regular scanner than can identify a target at 4.5k as wanted then being able to scan at 2.5k instead of 2 means by the time i'm in the targets face the scan is nearly done.

    10 second scan is bloody long tho, I wish the higher grade ones reduced scan time.

    Are the Medium mounts on the viper on the underside or on the top bit?

    If they are on the underside I might try a fit with plasma accelerators, although that would break my no ammo rule, they might be fun for pew pew. And so far this game is all about fun for me. Maybe a bit of theorycrafting at work too

  13. #53

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    Mediums are underside & outboard, smalls top near cockpit. Personally never had issues with ammo supplies. 2 (fixed) med pulses & 2 gimballed multi-cannons or regular cannons do quiet well on the Viper. Cannons because, contrary to multis, they get less performance reduction vs medium & large hulls. I find fixed guns on the viper worth it because it allows you to duke it out vs bigger NPCS with turrets/gimbals whos accuracy falls off alot at range allowing you to outshoot them.
    Last edited by Torashuu; June 23 2015 at 11:20:18 AM.

  14. #54
    Sp4m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torashuu View Post
    Mediums are underside & outboard, smalls top near cockpit
    Welp. Fitting plasma accelerators is a bit of a sqeeeeeeeze

    But it can be done.

    Bye bye thrusters.

    Class D for - DANGEROUS :P

    (I bet they are shit tho tbh)

  15. #55

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    Haha, on the viper yes its tough of fit. I meant on the Diamondback Scout.

  16. #56

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    Current load out, for those few souls who still play, with current engineers adaptations:

    [Viper MkIII, Viper MkIII Torashuu Edition] [-1]
    M: 2B/F Rail Gun [+1]
    *: Mass=4.819; Power Draw=1.83; Damage=38.6; Distributor Draw=7.57
    *: Maximum Range=4950; Reload Time=2
    M: 2B/FS Seeker Missile Rack [+1]
    S: 1F/F Burst Laser [+1]
    S: 1F/F Burst Laser [+1]
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher [+1]
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher [+1]

    BH: 1A Military Grade Composite
    RB: 3A Power Plant
    **: Integrity=63; Power Capacity=13.3; Heat Efficiency=0.41
    TM: 3A Thrusters [+1]
    **: Mass=4; Integrity=67.26; Power Draw=4.39; Optimal Mass=106.8
    **: Optimal Multiplier=128.8; Thermal Load=2.3
    FH: 3A Frame Shift Drive [-1]
    **: Mass=6.936; Integrity=73; Power Draw=0.5422; Optimal Mass=221
    EC: 2D Life Support [+1]
    PC: 3A Power Distributor [+1]
    SS: 3D Sensors [+1]
    FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)

    3: 3C Bi-Weave Shield Generator [+1]
    3: 3A Fuel Scoop [-1]
    2: 2A Frame Shift Drive Interdictor [-1]
    1: 1D Hull Reinforcement Package
    ---
    Shield: 147.0
    Power : 7.85 MW retracted (59%)
    12.18 MW deployed (92%)
    13.30 MW available
    Cargo : 0
    Fuel : 4 T
    Mass : 115.4 T empty
    119.4 T full
    Range : 19.04 LY unladen
    19.04 LY laden
    Price : 6,599,300 CR
    Re-Buy: 329,965 CR @ 95% insurance

    Might actually swap out the jumprange mod for a boot mod, so it turns on quicker after not being powered, so I can use the grid for fitting, then again, might not.
    Last edited by Torashuu; November 25 2016 at 09:53:02 AM.

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