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Thread: Ship Thread - Viper Goes Faster

  1. #21
    Kraken's Avatar
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    do burst lazors over class 1 exist?

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandzibar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Torashuu View Post
    Haven't noticed a difference vs armor wrt different laser types. Sauce?
    If you look at the comparison tool in outfitting all weps have an A rating for armour pen. Some however have a better level of "A" than others. LOLWUT. Blue is better than current. Yellow is the same. Red is worse.

    Rails > Cannons / Mcannons > Pulses/Bursts > Beams - off the top of my head.

    Would be nice if they used real numbers but tbh their whole fitting window stats thing needs a massive overhaul. So much missing data.
    Doh! Knew that, but never bothered to check. Got most of that from testing. But didn't know beams were worse vs hull. Even vs shield I'd say its a coinflip between burst & beam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    do burst lazors over class 1 exist?
    Class 3 definitely has burst lasers yes.

  3. #23
    Kraken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torashuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandzibar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Torashuu View Post
    Haven't noticed a difference vs armor wrt different laser types. Sauce?
    If you look at the comparison tool in outfitting all weps have an A rating for armour pen. Some however have a better level of "A" than others. LOLWUT. Blue is better than current. Yellow is the same. Red is worse.

    Rails > Cannons / Mcannons > Pulses/Bursts > Beams - off the top of my head.

    Would be nice if they used real numbers but tbh their whole fitting window stats thing needs a massive overhaul. So much missing data.
    Doh! Knew that, but never bothered to check. Got most of that from testing. But didn't know beams were worse vs hull. Even vs shield I'd say its a coinflip between burst & beam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    do burst lazors over class 1 exist?
    Class 3 definitely has burst lasers yes.
    ive found burst to be far more sustainable on fewerpips. so if you dont miss with beams they are probably great but if you miss with burst you can keep on firing long after beams are unable. Right?

  4. #24

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    yeah but what I meant that even taking accuracy out the equation I'm not convinced beam does any better.

  5. #25
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    so if you dont miss with beams they are probably great but if you miss with burst you can keep on firing long after beams are unable. Right?
    That's kinda backwards;

    Pulses have the highest DPS, the worst heat capacity & the best cool down.

    Bursts are in the middle

    Beams have the worst DPS, the best heat capacity, & the worst cool down.

    That is to say that beams can sustain fire for the longest period of time, but if you over heat them they take a long time to cool down and become usable again. Whereas pulses put out a lot of damage in a short period of time before they reach max heat, but they have excellent cool down so they can sustain a reduced rate of fire unlike beams which just stop.

  6. #26
    Sandzibar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraken View Post
    so if you dont miss with beams they are probably great but if you miss with burst you can keep on firing long after beams are unable. Right?
    That's kinda backwards;

    Pulses have the highest DPS, the worst heat capacity & the best cool down.

    Bursts are in the middle

    Beams have the worst DPS, the best heat capacity, & the worst cool down.

    That is to say that beams can sustain fire for the longest period of time, but if you over heat them they take a long time to cool down and become usable again. Whereas pulses put out a lot of damage in a short period of time before they reach max heat, but they have excellent cool down so they can sustain a reduced rate of fire unlike beams which just stop.
    Yep.

    Beams are highest DPS (and thus the best vs shields), but least sustainable (very cap hungry), and weakest vs armour/components.
    Burst are next best DPS (as they fire 3 pulse laser shots per attack), more sustainable than beams, ok vs armour.
    Pulse worst DPS of the lasers, most sustainable with low pips in weps, same vs armour as bursts.

    Thats why you either go full pulse - to make the most of their low cap use, or you go a burst/beam and mcannon/rail split - to offset the higher cap use whilst maintaining dmg output. Or you throw in some derp missiles for PvP.
    Last edited by Sandzibar; January 19 2015 at 08:26:24 PM.

  7. #27
    Liare's Avatar
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    i switched to multicannons per failheaps suggestion, :motherofgod:

    the lack of shield bite is somewhat annoying but the ammo consumption and raw killing power once the shields do go down is downright impressive and the enforced breaks are kinda nice too. have some reps.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  8. #28
    Hoggbert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    the lack of shield bite is somewhat annoying
    This is why you have both lasers and multicannons

  9. #29

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    Trouble is now you're forever switching between small kinetic + med laser or vice versa because there is always one component lacking in oomph.. That FDL better have 4 med slots or better....

    edit: Current setup for Anaconda hunting & peeveepee.
    [Viper]
    M: 2D/F Beam Laser
    M: 2D/F Beam Laser
    S: 1B/FD Missile Rack
    S: 1B/FD Missile Rack
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher
    U: 0E Kill Warrant Scanner

    BH: 1I Reactive Surface Composite
    RB: 3A Power Plant
    TM: 3A Thrusters
    FH: 3A Frame Shift Drive
    EC: 2D Life Support
    PC: 3A Power Distributor
    SS: 3A Sensors
    FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)

    3: 3A Shield Generator
    3: 3A Shield Cell Bank
    2: 2A Fuel Scoop
    1: 1E Frame Shift Drive Interdictor

    edit edit:
    also fun, workable Plasma fit, heat is a big problem:
    [Viper]
    M: 2C/F Plasma Accelerator
    M: 2C/F Plasma Accelerator
    S: 1F/F Multi-cannon
    S: 1F/F Multi-cannon
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher
    U: 0E Kill Warrant Scanner

    BH: 1I Reactive Surface Composite
    RB: 3A Power Plant
    TM: 3A Thrusters
    FH: 3E Frame Shift Drive
    EC: 2D Life Support
    PC: 3A Power Distributor
    SS: 3A Sensors
    FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)

    3: 3A Shield Generator
    3: 3A Shield Cell Bank
    2: 2A Fuel Scoop
    1: 1E Frame Shift Drive Interdictor
    Last edited by Torashuu; January 20 2015 at 12:27:27 AM.

  10. #30
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    the lack of shield bite is somewhat annoying
    This is why you have both lasers and multicannons
    yea, but fuck gimbaled guns i prefer fixed on a Viper that means two racks of identical guns to get the same aimpoint.
    Last edited by Liare; January 20 2015 at 08:25:21 AM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  11. #31
    Sandzibar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggbert View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    the lack of shield bite is somewhat annoying
    This is why you have both lasers and multicannons
    yea, but fuck gimbaled guns i prefer fixed on a Viper that means two racks of identical guns to get the same aimpoint.
    I think the most common setup is 2 small beams 2 medium mcannons / rails. Rails requires some serious power tweaking. I like 1 fixed medium beam, and all the rest as gimbled mcannons. However, I'm odd.

  12. #32

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    For rails and plasma cannons, keep in mind if you know you're fighting in the same/close system, you can downgrade your FSD to free up a bit.
    Biggest problem is heat, not power, as you only get 1-2 shots off before overheating. This means you are limited in ROF by the heat it generates. The Plasma Accelerators are thus rather unimpressive on the Viper as the time between shots is so long, it might as well fit lasers. Upside is the alpha punch.

    Rails are OK against both shields and hull, but relatively expensive and limited in ammo for NPC hunting, best used against big targets. I hear PvP outfit currently favored are 2x med Rails + 2x small seeker missile bays (on cobra).
    Last edited by Torashuu; January 20 2015 at 09:35:26 AM.

  13. #33

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    Here is what I'm using to Bounty hunt with.

    [Viper]
    M: 2D/F Beam Laser
    M: 2D/F Beam Laser
    S: 1E/F Beam Laser
    S: 1E/F Beam Laser
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher

    BH: 1I Military Grade Composite
    RB: 3A Power Plant
    TM: 3C Thrusters
    FH: 3B Frame Shift Drive
    EC: 2D Life Support
    PC: 3A Power Distributor
    SS: 3B Sensors
    FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)

    3: 3E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 8)
    3: 3A Shield Generator
    2: 1B Shield Cell Bank
    1: 1C Frame Shift Drive Interdictor
    ---
    Shield: 115.57 MJ
    Power : 8.56 MW retracted (71%)
    12.18 MW deployed (102%)
    12.00 MW available
    Cargo : 8 T
    Fuel : 4 T
    Mass : 121.4 T empty
    133.4 T full
    Range : 10.25 LY unladen
    9.64 LY laden
    Price : 2,512,667 CR
    Re-Buy: 125,633 CR @ 95% insurance


    I am very happy with this ship. When I face Anacondas, I knock out their Engines first and then knock out the Power plant. I'm sure others can take out the anaconda's faster than me - but I have no problem fighting 5 of them in a row or any number of cobras, so I often stay in the extraction field until I have 500K before returning to a port.

  14. #34
    Sandzibar's Avatar
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    I cant help but think that the cap usage on 4 beams means youre not going to be able to output as much consistant dps as you would with a beam / mcannon split.

    But if it works for you, and you are happy with it, cool.

  15. #35
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland View Post
    Here is what I'm using to Bounty hunt with.

    [Viper]
    M: 2D/F Beam Laser
    M: 2D/F Beam Laser
    S: 1E/F Beam Laser
    S: 1E/F Beam Laser
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher
    U: 0I Chaff Launcher

    BH: 1I Military Grade Composite
    RB: 3A Power Plant
    TM: 3C Thrusters
    FH: 3B Frame Shift Drive
    EC: 2D Life Support
    PC: 3A Power Distributor
    SS: 3B Sensors
    FS: 2C Fuel Tank (Capacity: 4)

    3: 3E Cargo Rack (Capacity: 8)
    3: 3A Shield Generator
    2: 1B Shield Cell Bank
    1: 1C Frame Shift Drive Interdictor
    ---
    Shield: 115.57 MJ
    Power : 8.56 MW retracted (71%)
    12.18 MW deployed (102%)
    12.00 MW available
    Cargo : 8 T
    Fuel : 4 T
    Mass : 121.4 T empty
    133.4 T full
    Range : 10.25 LY unladen
    9.64 LY laden
    Price : 2,512,667 CR
    Re-Buy: 125,633 CR @ 95% insurance


    I am very happy with this ship. When I face Anacondas, I knock out their Engines first and then knock out the Power plant. I'm sure others can take out the anaconda's faster than me - but I have no problem fighting 5 of them in a row or any number of cobras, so I often stay in the extraction field until I have 500K before returning to a port.
    and you get a full glorious 4 seconds of actions out of those beam lasers before the distributor is empty.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    and you get a full glorious 4 seconds of actions out of those beam lasers before the distributor is empty.
    It works for me. I'm sure other setups would work as well, this just happens to be the one I'm using.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland View Post

    It works for me. I'm sure other setups would work as well, this just happens to be the one I'm using.
    I too put medium arty on my Megathron.

    In all seriousness though try to small fixed burst lasers and two medium gimbaled mcannons. I think you'll find an increase in performance.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Procellus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirkland View Post

    It works for me. I'm sure other setups would work as well, this just happens to be the one I'm using.
    I too put medium arty on my Megathron.

    In all seriousness though try to small fixed burst lasers and two medium gimbaled mcannons. I think you'll find an increase in performance.
    I tried it. On a 1v1 situation - it's clearly better. But for farming - I prefer the beams by a large margin.

  19. #39

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    If you want to run all lasers for farming, I suggest pulse lasers since they are more cap efficient.

  20. #40
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandzibar View Post

    Yep.

    Beams are highest DPS (and thus the best vs shields), but least sustainable (very cap hungry), and weakest vs armour/components.
    Burst are next best DPS (as they fire 3 pulse laser shots per attack), more sustainable than beams, ok vs armour.
    Pulse worst DPS of the lasers, most sustainable with low pips in weps, same vs armour as bursts.

    Thats why you either go full pulse - to make the most of their low cap use, or you go a burst/beam and mcannon/rail split - to offset the higher cap use whilst maintaining dmg output. Or you throw in some derp missiles for PvP.
    Are you in.

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