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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #46941
    Smarnca's Avatar
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  2. #46942
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    I guarantee you he's justifying this to himself with some Atlas Shrugeed John Galt cloud castle bullshit.

  3. #46943
    Keckers's Avatar
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    >tfw you write a novel for your ideology but even within a fictional framework you need to include a perpetual motion machine to make it work
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  4. #46944
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    It very funny that some of you think the Republican Party and Donald Trump are on the same side and one and the same.

    Makes for a great narrative, isn't remotely true. Elected establishment (R) hate Trump almost as much as the Dems do.

    There are a few Trumpies around in congress, no doubt, and they're often loud. But I guarantee you a poll of (R) elected officials would be materially in favor of anyone BUT Trump being the (R) President.
    I'm not sure there are many that think Trump is on the same side as the GOP. It simply doesn't matter, the GOP support Trump because he is in the whitehouse, elements of the GOP are batshit insane and support Trump because they like populism.

    Establishment GOP are stuck between a rock and a hard place, on the one hand they really don't want a democrat in the whitehouse, on the other hand they don't really want Trump either.
    They do have a third option, break off (at the cost of power) and build their own party without the elements of Trumpism they find disagreeable/offensive, etc.

    Sadly, no one ever accepts the bargain of less power for more diverse, numerous and better defined parties.


  5. #46945

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    It very funny that some of you think the Republican Party and Donald Trump are on the same side and one and the same.

    Makes for a great narrative, isn't remotely true. Elected establishment (R) hate Trump almost as much as the Dems do.

    There are a few Trumpies around in congress, no doubt, and they're often loud. But I guarantee you a poll of (R) elected officials would be materially in favor of anyone BUT Trump being the (R) President.
    I'm not sure there are many that think Trump is on the same side as the GOP. It simply doesn't matter, the GOP support Trump because he is in the whitehouse, elements of the GOP are batshit insane and support Trump because they like populism.

    Establishment GOP are stuck between a rock and a hard place, on the one hand they really don't want a democrat in the whitehouse, on the other hand they don't really want Trump either.
    They do have a third option, break off (at the cost of power) and build their own party without the elements of Trumpism they find disagreeable/offensive, etc.

    Sadly, no one ever accepts the bargain of less power for more diverse, numerous and better defined parties.
    We've been over this, it's because the system very much is not conducive to it. But yeah to change it you'd have to be in power and spectacularly lucky, and by that point you probably won't want to change it.

  6. #46946

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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    It very funny that some of you think the Republican Party and Donald Trump are on the same side and one and the same.

    Makes for a great narrative, isn't remotely true. Elected establishment (R) hate Trump almost as much as the Dems do.

    There are a few Trumpies around in congress, no doubt, and they're often loud. But I guarantee you a poll of (R) elected officials would be materially in favor of anyone BUT Trump being the (R) President.
    I'm not sure there are many that think Trump is on the same side as the GOP. It simply doesn't matter, the GOP support Trump because he is in the whitehouse, elements of the GOP are batshit insane and support Trump because they like populism.

    Establishment GOP are stuck between a rock and a hard place, on the one hand they really don't want a democrat in the whitehouse, on the other hand they don't really want Trump either.
    They do have a third option, break off (at the cost of power) and build their own party without the elements of Trumpism they find disagreeable/offensive, etc.

    Sadly, no one ever accepts the bargain of less power for more diverse, numerous and better defined parties.
    We've been over this, it's because the system very much is not conducive to it. But yeah to change it you'd have to be in power and spectacularly lucky, and by that point you probably won't want to change it.
    TBH the democrats would stand a good chance to fracture first if they changed electoral system to something more representative.

  7. #46947
    Saul's Avatar
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    Last edited by Saul; April 12 2018 at 06:34:27 PM.

  8. #46948
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    It very funny that some of you think the Republican Party and Donald Trump are on the same side and one and the same.

    Makes for a great narrative, isn't remotely true. Elected establishment (R) hate Trump almost as much as the Dems do.

    There are a few Trumpies around in congress, no doubt, and they're often loud. But I guarantee you a poll of (R) elected officials would be materially in favor of anyone BUT Trump being the (R) President.
    I'm not sure there are many that think Trump is on the same side as the GOP. It simply doesn't matter, the GOP support Trump because he is in the whitehouse, elements of the GOP are batshit insane and support Trump because they like populism.

    Establishment GOP are stuck between a rock and a hard place, on the one hand they really don't want a democrat in the whitehouse, on the other hand they don't really want Trump either.
    They do have a third option, break off (at the cost of power) and build their own party without the elements of Trumpism they find disagreeable/offensive, etc.

    Sadly, no one ever accepts the bargain of less power for more diverse, numerous and better defined parties.
    There's very little about "Trumpism" that the modern GOP dislikes on an ideological basis. They're just mad that he's saying the quiet parts out loud, and he's not properly handwaving away the gigantic damage that GOP policies will do to the white working & middle class so now some of them are getting spooked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  9. #46949
    Smarnca's Avatar
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    US senators are dumb as rocks

    They were asking him questions so simple a 10 year old could answer them


  10. #46950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    US senators are dumb as rocks

    They were asking him questions so simple a 10 year old could answer them
    You dont get the point of these hearings.

    The biggest part of its importance is getting it all on record. Cant get more official than a senate hearing.
    Schopenhauer:

    All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed.
    Second, it is violently opposed.
    Third, it is accepted as being self-evident..

  11. #46951
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    It very funny that some of you think the Republican Party and Donald Trump are on the same side and one and the same.

    Makes for a great narrative, isn't remotely true. Elected establishment (R) hate Trump almost as much as the Dems do.

    There are a few Trumpies around in congress, no doubt, and they're often loud. But I guarantee you a poll of (R) elected officials would be materially in favor of anyone BUT Trump being the (R) President.
    I'm not sure there are many that think Trump is on the same side as the GOP. It simply doesn't matter, the GOP support Trump because he is in the whitehouse, elements of the GOP are batshit insane and support Trump because they like populism.

    Establishment GOP are stuck between a rock and a hard place, on the one hand they really don't want a democrat in the whitehouse, on the other hand they don't really want Trump either.
    They do have a third option, break off (at the cost of power) and build their own party without the elements of Trumpism they find disagreeable/offensive, etc.

    Sadly, no one ever accepts the bargain of less power for more diverse, numerous and better defined parties.
    We've been over this, it's because the system very much is not conducive to it. But yeah to change it you'd have to be in power and spectacularly lucky, and by that point you probably won't want to change it.
    TBH the democrats would stand a good chance to fracture first if they changed electoral system to something more representative.
    Perhaps the best thing that could happen to us would be a double fracture.

    Progressives - (Moderate) Democrats - (Moderate) Republicans - Nationalists

    Exclude the two fringes and their low-but-loud populations to their own parties, rule from the Center via two moderate parties that maybe, just maybe, could govern via compromise and working together, and keeping their respective fringe elements where they perhaps belong, the fringes, used occasionally for an idea or two, and not permitted to wield any real power.

    It's a nice daydream, if nothing else.


  12. #46952
    Jori McKie's Avatar
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    WTF, long read but worth it, Comey's memoir selected preprint.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...?noredirect=on

    Golden Shower, Prostitutes, Loyalty pledge like mafia oath... all in all a profound description how the Orange ticks.
    God help us all and especially the american people.
    Last edited by Jori McKie; April 13 2018 at 05:48:06 AM.

  13. #46953
    DerWish's Avatar
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  14. #46954
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    The president-elect quickly interrupted the FBI director. According to Comey’s account in a new memoir, Trump “strongly denied the allegations, asking — rhetorically, I assumed — whether he seemed like a guy who needed the service of prostitutes. He then began discussing cases where women had accused him of sexual assault, a subject I had not raised. He mentioned a number of women, and seemed to have memorized their allegations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #46955
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Mr. Comey is the very definition of an unreliable and biased 'witness'. The CYA is strong with this one....


  16. #46956

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Mr. Comey is the very definition of an unreliable and biased 'witness'. The CYA is strong with this one....
    Biased towards whom though. Remember that he torpedoed Hillaries campaign when he found some emails on Wieners laptop? That turned out to be nothing special in those emails but the media impact was huge and Clintons poll numbers dropped after it happened. Hillary partly attributed the loss to that specific day.

    No, more likely Comey is exactly what he appears to be, a boring bureaucrat true to the law and his word.

  17. #46957
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Mr. Comey is the very definition of an unreliable and biased 'witness'. The CYA is strong with this one....
    Biased towards whom though.
    Himself and his own mismanagement and improper actions perhaps? If you think this current Comey book campaign is anything more than pure profiteering and CYA, well......

    Remember that he torpedoed Hillaries campaign when he found some emails on Wieners laptop? That turned out to be nothing special in those emails but the media impact was huge and Clintons poll numbers dropped after it happened. Hillary partly attributed the loss to that specific day.
    Oh, because Hillary attributed it, it must be so. Funny how she attributed her own defeats to pretty much everyone but herself.

    As a reminder, Comey also protected Clinton from prosecution for her various violations of law and statute.

    In before the usual Clinton-protection of vast oversimplification about "she din doo nuff'in!" and it being "just about some emails".

    No, more likely Comey is exactly what he appears to be, a boring bureaucrat true to the law and his word.
    It's funny how often honesty and integrity are seen through the prism of party affiliation. Comey hates Trump today, so he must be "true to the law and honest" now.

    When he was "matter"ing Clinton (to use the officially sanctioned Loretta Lynch-directed term, not "investigation!"), he was part of the great vast right wing conspiracy out to tank Hillary who, as we know, din doo nuff'in.....


  18. #46958
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Mr. Comey is the very definition of an unreliable and biased 'witness'. The CYA is strong with this one....
    Biased towards whom though.
    Himself and his own mismanagement and improper actions perhaps? If you think this current Comey book campaign is anything more than pure profiteering and CYA, well......

    Remember that he torpedoed Hillaries campaign when he found some emails on Wieners laptop? That turned out to be nothing special in those emails but the media impact was huge and Clintons poll numbers dropped after it happened. Hillary partly attributed the loss to that specific day.
    Oh, because Hillary attributed it, it must be so. Funny how she attributed her own defeats to pretty much everyone but herself.

    As a reminder, Comey also protected Clinton from prosecution for her various violations of law and statute.

    In before the usual Clinton-protection of vast oversimplification about "she din doo nuff'in!" and it being "just about some emails".

    No, more likely Comey is exactly what he appears to be, a boring bureaucrat true to the law and his word.
    It's funny how often honesty and integrity are seen through the prism of party affiliation. Comey hates Trump today, so he must be "true to the law and honest" now.

    When he was "matter"ing Clinton (to use the officially sanctioned Loretta Lynch-directed term, not "investigation!"), he was part of the great vast right wing conspiracy out to tank Hillary who, as we know, din doo nuff'in.....
    It's funny how often, in your posts, honesty and integrity are seen through the prism of your hatred of everything Clinton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  19. #46959

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax;1776969

    [quote
    No, more likely Comey is exactly what he appears to be, a boring bureaucrat true to the law and his word.
    It's funny how often honesty and integrity are seen through the prism of party affiliation. Comey hates Trump today, so he must be "true to the law and honest" now.

    When he was "matter"ing Clinton (to use the officially sanctioned Loretta Lynch-directed term, not "investigation!"), he was part of the great vast right wing conspiracy out to tank Hillary who, as we know, din doo nuff'in.....
    Don't drag me into your ficticious "This side vs that side". I said the exact same thing during the election. Comey promised Congress he would brief them if anything new turned up regarding the emails, he did so before they had been scrutinized. True to his _god_ _damb_ word. Hell, Trump even praised him for it. (And then later he chided him for it but, you know, Trump...)

  20. #46960
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Mr. Comey is the very definition of an unreliable and biased 'witness'. The CYA is strong with this one....
    Biased towards whom though.
    Himself and his own mismanagement and improper actions perhaps? If you think this current Comey book campaign is anything more than pure profiteering and CYA, well......

    Remember that he torpedoed Hillaries campaign when he found some emails on Wieners laptop? That turned out to be nothing special in those emails but the media impact was huge and Clintons poll numbers dropped after it happened. Hillary partly attributed the loss to that specific day.
    Oh, because Hillary attributed it, it must be so. Funny how she attributed her own defeats to pretty much everyone but herself.

    As a reminder, Comey also protected Clinton from prosecution for her various violations of law and statute.

    In before the usual Clinton-protection of vast oversimplification about "she din doo nuff'in!" and it being "just about some emails".

    No, more likely Comey is exactly what he appears to be, a boring bureaucrat true to the law and his word.
    It's funny how often honesty and integrity are seen through the prism of party affiliation. Comey hates Trump today, so he must be "true to the law and honest" now.

    When he was "matter"ing Clinton (to use the officially sanctioned Loretta Lynch-directed term, not "investigation!"), he was part of the great vast right wing conspiracy out to tank Hillary who, as we know, din doo nuff'in.....
    It's funny how often, in your posts, honesty and integrity are seen through the prism of your hatred of everything Clinton.
    I mean its an optically sound prism! Invisible to the user though.

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