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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #53921
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Well, if Kavanaugh becomes an issue, the Democrats can always pack the court when they're back in power ...
    I like that "when".

    Trump just openly delegitimised the Democrats btw.
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  2. #53922
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    The Supreme Court becomes a rotating body of 101 justices, selected for each case in a cryptographic-random way from a pool of possible candidates. Each then decides on the case at hand. Each case gets a different pool.

    Bye bye political appointments and popularity contests.
    And then it turns back into 9 appointees the picosecond the GOP get a president again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
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  3. #53923
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Funny thing...people/parties don’t adopt these tactics for fun. They work, and are increasingly beating more traditional “nice” (lol, right) politics more and more consistently. How to change that without sinking to the same level is a tricky question.
    Why don't you ask Tiberius Gracchus or Julius Caesar? Or Cato or Cicero, if that's more your speed.


    fill in the blanks which character represents which political party in the USA

  4. #53924

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    Not to worry, Chuck Shumer has already floated the idea of returning the number of votes needed to confirm a supreme court justice to 60 if the Democrats get a majority in the Senate, thus ensuring that the Republicans will be able to Garland all future Democratic nominees.

  5. #53925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nax View Post
    Not to worry, Chuck Shumer has already floated the idea of returning the number of votes needed to confirm a supreme court justice to 60 if the Democrats get a majority in the Senate, thus ensuring that the Republicans will be able to Garland all future Democratic nominees.
    how gentlemanly of him

    after all they're friends, they play golf together with republicans

  6. #53926
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Funny thing...people/parties don’t adopt these tactics for fun. They work, and are increasingly beating more traditional “nice” (lol, right) politics more and more consistently. How to change that without sinking to the same level is a tricky question.
    Why don't you ask Tiberius Gracchus or Julius Caesar? Or Cato or Cicero, if that's more your speed.


    fill in the blanks which character represents which political party in the USA
    Uhhh by the time of Cicero's death the analogy really doesn't make any sense anymore.

  7. #53927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Funny thing...people/parties don’t adopt these tactics for fun. They work, and are increasingly beating more traditional “nice” (lol, right) politics more and more consistently. How to change that without sinking to the same level is a tricky question.
    Why don't you ask Tiberius Gracchus or Julius Caesar? Or Cato or Cicero, if that's more your speed.


    fill in the blanks which character represents which political party in the USA
    Uhhh by the time of Cicero's death the analogy really doesn't make any sense anymore.
    shut up and give me the weak democrat vs ruthless republican analogy

  8. #53928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Funny thing...people/parties don’t adopt these tactics for fun. They work, and are increasingly beating more traditional “nice” (lol, right) politics more and more consistently. How to change that without sinking to the same level is a tricky question.
    Why don't you ask Tiberius Gracchus or Julius Caesar? Or Cato or Cicero, if that's more your speed.


    fill in the blanks which character represents which political party in the USA
    Uhhh by the time of Cicero's death the analogy really doesn't make any sense anymore.
    shut up and give me the weak democrat vs ruthless republican analogy
    Except that Caesar, Antony, and Octavian were essentially the Roman left, and Antony was a party traitor.

    If anything, Caesar is Lenin, Octavian is Stalin, and Antony is Trotsky.

  9. #53929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Funny thing...people/parties don’t adopt these tactics for fun. They work, and are increasingly beating more traditional “nice” (lol, right) politics more and more consistently. How to change that without sinking to the same level is a tricky question.
    Why don't you ask Tiberius Gracchus or Julius Caesar? Or Cato or Cicero, if that's more your speed.


    fill in the blanks which character represents which political party in the USA
    Uhhh by the time of Cicero's death the analogy really doesn't make any sense anymore.
    shut up and give me the weak democrat vs ruthless republican analogy
    Except that Caesar, Antony, and Octavian were essentially the Roman left, and Antony was a party traitor.

    If anything, Caesar is Lenin, Octavian is Stalin, and Antony is Trotsky.
    ugh

  10. #53930
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    e-voting, if done in the correct way.
    We call that a pencil.

    Also just stop politically appointing and/or electing judges you shitters it's a terrible idea
    for life

  11. #53931
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    e-voting, if done in the correct way.
    We call that a pencil.

    Also just stop politically appointing and/or electing judges you shitters it's a terrible idea
    We also elect our prosecutors and sheriffs

    No idea why anyone thinks this is a good idea

  12. #53932

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    The theory is that it gives voters direct control rather than making all of these positions political appointments. The reality is that it's honestly worse. There are states where judges are elected. It's fucking terrible.
    Totally not Victoria Stecker forgetting his password and not having access to his work email.

  13. #53933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Funny thing...people/parties don’t adopt these tactics for fun. They work, and are increasingly beating more traditional “nice” (lol, right) politics more and more consistently. How to change that without sinking to the same level is a tricky question.
    Why don't you ask Tiberius Gracchus or Julius Caesar? Or Cato or Cicero, if that's more your speed.


    fill in the blanks which character represents which political party in the USA
    Uhhh by the time of Cicero's death the analogy really doesn't make any sense anymore.
    shut up and give me the weak democrat vs ruthless republican analogy
    Except that Caesar, Antony, and Octavian were essentially the Roman left, and Antony was a party traitor.

    If anything, Caesar is Lenin, Octavian is Stalin, and Antony is Trotsky.
    ugh
    I mean I already said it was a bad analogy.

    But the republic did collapse over issues of land reform, labor conditions, and voting rights. Those aren't really right-wing causes.

  14. #53934
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Funny thing...people/parties don’t adopt these tactics for fun. They work, and are increasingly beating more traditional “nice” (lol, right) politics more and more consistently. How to change that without sinking to the same level is a tricky question.
    Why don't you ask Tiberius Gracchus or Julius Caesar? Or Cato or Cicero, if that's more your speed.


    fill in the blanks which character represents which political party in the USA
    Uhhh by the time of Cicero's death the analogy really doesn't make any sense anymore.
    shut up and give me the weak democrat vs ruthless republican analogy
    Except that Caesar, Antony, and Octavian were essentially the Roman left, and Antony was a party traitor.

    If anything, Caesar is Lenin, Octavian is Stalin, and Antony is Trotsky.
    ugh
    I mean I already said it was a bad analogy.

    But the republic did collapse over issues of land reform, labor conditions, and voting rights. Those aren't really right-wing causes.
    Stopping them is.

  15. #53935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Funny thing...people/parties don’t adopt these tactics for fun. They work, and are increasingly beating more traditional “nice” (lol, right) politics more and more consistently. How to change that without sinking to the same level is a tricky question.
    Why don't you ask Tiberius Gracchus or Julius Caesar? Or Cato or Cicero, if that's more your speed.


    fill in the blanks which character represents which political party in the USA
    Uhhh by the time of Cicero's death the analogy really doesn't make any sense anymore.
    shut up and give me the weak democrat vs ruthless republican analogy
    Except that Caesar, Antony, and Octavian were essentially the Roman left, and Antony was a party traitor.

    If anything, Caesar is Lenin, Octavian is Stalin, and Antony is Trotsky.
    ugh
    I mean I already said it was a bad analogy.

    But the republic did collapse over issues of land reform, labor conditions, and voting rights. Those aren't really right-wing causes.
    Stopping them is.
    Sure, but Gracchus and (a century later) Caesar and Octavian were on the side advocating for land reform (or at least against the senate, which was anti-reform), not against it. And they won.


    I still think the Lenin/Stalin/Trotsky analogy is better than anything in American history. Caesar brought down the state, Octavian rose to absolute power after Caesar's death, and Antony was one of Caesar's generals in the preceding civil wars who was killed by Octavian because he was a threat to Octavian's power. :dunno:

    Again, it's a shitty analogy.

    The only use in referring to the Gracchi and to Caesar is to point out that republics do tend to collapse and that the whole "Well if our party just plays by the rules" thing doesn't really do much to prevent republican decay. It might not even delay it, depending on the nature of the crisis. It's not to say that Roman politics are analogous to American politics, even if we also face a republican (Republican, am I right?) crisis.
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; October 9 2018 at 11:51:52 PM.

  16. #53936
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Court packing/stacking is a hilariously bad idea
    Why, exactly?

    Because it breaks another norm?

    Or put another way, how is it an inferior choice compared to continuing to allow the high coirt's membership to be controlled by a minority of the electorate for another few generations?
    You'll be destroying the legitimacy of the judiciary in the eyes of half of the population. And in the best case scenario this decision will fuel a wave of civil obedience and unrest. The options get progressively worse from there.
    Hahaha, so packing the court would destroy the legitimacy of SCOTUS? You mean, even more, after the circus that we just had with Kavanaugh? After Citizens United? Etc. Puuuulease, give me a break, why don't you?

    And then what? 2nd amendment remedies? Or worse? By the less than a third of population in the US that are still represented by the Republicans nationwide? Common, not even you can believe that!

    Packing the court is a perfectly viable and legitimate alternative if this SCOTUS is going to go all Republican on Roe vs. Wade, gun control, customer and worker protection, social programmes, LGBT rights, etc.

    The idea that two thirds of the population will just go sit on their hands while this partisan court signs away their rights and protections for two to three generations is just ludicrous. And why would any political party, with the means to do something about it, let that continue to happen anyway?

    Quite frankly, in that context, packing the court is simply the most legal and peaceful way for democracy in the US to defend itself from these proto-fascist practices. The alternative could be a lot worse.

    And who knows, perhaps putting the Republicans on the court on notice will make them think twice?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  17. #53937
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steckersaurus View Post
    The theory is that it gives voters direct control rather than making all of these positions political appointments. The reality is that it's honestly worse. There are states where judges are elected. It's fucking terrible.
    Or you get LAWN ORDER sheriffs like Joe Arpaio, who want American jails to more closely resemble gulags

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post

    Hahaha, so packing the court would destroy the legitimacy of SCOTUS? You mean, even more, after the circus that we just had with Kavanaugh? After Citizens United? Etc. Puuuulease, give me a break, why don't you?

    And then what? 2nd amendment remedies? Or worse? By the less than a third of population in the US that are still represented by the Republicans nationwide? Common, not even you can believe that!

    Packing the court is a perfectly viable and legitimate alternative if this SCOTUS is going to go all Republican on Roe vs. Wade, gun control, customer and worker protection, social programmes, LGBT rights, etc.

    The idea that two thirds of the population will just go sit on their hands while this partisan court signs away their rights and protections for two to three generations is just ludicrous. And why would any political party, with the means to do something about it, let that continue to happen anyway?

    Quite frankly, in that context, packing the court is simply the most legal and peaceful way for democracy in the US to defend itself from these proto-fascist practices. The alternative could be a lot worse.

    And who knows, perhaps putting the Republicans on the court on notice will make them think twice?
    It's horrible fucking idea regardless of who does it.

    And it's still a horrible fucking idea even after Mitch has done a number on Supreme Court legitimacy.

    The last thing we want is for people to start thinking there is no point in a judiciary or the rule of law. When that red line is crossed, it's not the left who wins typically. This is such a retarded and self-destructive notion just to satisfy some petty revenge fantasy.

  18. #53938
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steckersaurus View Post
    The theory is that it gives voters direct control rather than making all of these positions political appointments. The reality is that it's honestly worse. There are states where judges are elected. It's fucking terrible.
    Or you get LAWN ORDER sheriffs like Joe Arpaio, who want American jails to more closely resemble gulags

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post

    Hahaha, so packing the court would destroy the legitimacy of SCOTUS? You mean, even more, after the circus that we just had with Kavanaugh? After Citizens United? Etc. Puuuulease, give me a break, why don't you?

    And then what? 2nd amendment remedies? Or worse? By the less than a third of population in the US that are still represented by the Republicans nationwide? Common, not even you can believe that!

    Packing the court is a perfectly viable and legitimate alternative if this SCOTUS is going to go all Republican on Roe vs. Wade, gun control, customer and worker protection, social programmes, LGBT rights, etc.

    The idea that two thirds of the population will just go sit on their hands while this partisan court signs away their rights and protections for two to three generations is just ludicrous. And why would any political party, with the means to do something about it, let that continue to happen anyway?

    Quite frankly, in that context, packing the court is simply the most legal and peaceful way for democracy in the US to defend itself from these proto-fascist practices. The alternative could be a lot worse.

    And who knows, perhaps putting the Republicans on the court on notice will make them think twice?
    It's horrible fucking idea regardless of who does it.

    And it's still a horrible fucking idea even after Mitch has done a number on Supreme Court legitimacy.

    The last thing we want is for people to start thinking there is no point in a judiciary or the rule of law. When that red line is crossed, it's not the left who wins typically. This is such a retarded and self-destructive notion just to satisfy some petty revenge fantasy.
    Basically you want a "return to civility", from what I gather? The red line was already been crossed during the Obama administration, there's no going back now. If the Democrats keep playing nice, the Republicans will keep winning.

    If some rednecks and alt-reichers decide to start a US version of "The Troubles" because they no longer have the electoral power to discriminate against gays, women, and minorities, then it's just something the US is going to have to go through. Even if the Dems don't court pack and play nice with the far right, I think an American "troubles" are inevitable right now.

    Also, Democrats are not "The Left", they are a center-right party.
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; October 10 2018 at 08:24:14 PM.

  19. #53939
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Court packing/stacking is a hilariously bad idea
    Why, exactly?

    Because it breaks another norm?

    Or put another way, how is it an inferior choice compared to continuing to allow the high coirt's membership to be controlled by a minority of the electorate for another few generations?
    You'll be destroying the legitimacy of the judiciary in the eyes of half of the population. And in the best case scenario this decision will fuel a wave of civil obedience and unrest. The options get progressively worse from there.
    Hahaha, so packing the court would destroy the legitimacy of SCOTUS? You mean, even more, after the circus that we just had with Kavanaugh? After Citizens United? Etc. Puuuulease, give me a break, why don't you?

    And then what? 2nd amendment remedies? Or worse? By the less than a third of population in the US that are still represented by the Republicans nationwide? Common, not even you can believe that!

    Packing the court is a perfectly viable and legitimate alternative if this SCOTUS is going to go all Republican on Roe vs. Wade, gun control, customer and worker protection, social programmes, LGBT rights, etc.

    The idea that two thirds of the population will just go sit on their hands while this partisan court signs away their rights and protections for two to three generations is just ludicrous. And why would any political party, with the means to do something about it, let that continue to happen anyway?

    Quite frankly, in that context, packing the court is simply the most legal and peaceful way for democracy in the US to defend itself from these proto-fascist practices. The alternative could be a lot worse.

    And who knows, perhaps putting the Republicans on the court on notice will make them think twice?
    At this point, since I won't directly be affected, I say fuck it, let the dog catch the car. We all know conservatives think the only moral abortion is their abortion; let's see how they deal with dominionist shit-heads who won't make an exception. We all know conservatives hate worker protection because they think it means browns and women; let's see how they deal with billionaire aristocrats making them into actual serfs. Turn the whole US into one big Kansas flavoured demonstration of why one should be careful what one wishes for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  20. #53940
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steckersaurus View Post
    The theory is that it gives voters direct control rather than making all of these positions political appointments. The reality is that it's honestly worse. There are states where judges are elected. It's fucking terrible.
    Or you get LAWN ORDER sheriffs like Joe Arpaio, who want American jails to more closely resemble gulags

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post

    Hahaha, so packing the court would destroy the legitimacy of SCOTUS? You mean, even more, after the circus that we just had with Kavanaugh? After Citizens United? Etc. Puuuulease, give me a break, why don't you?

    And then what? 2nd amendment remedies? Or worse? By the less than a third of population in the US that are still represented by the Republicans nationwide? Common, not even you can believe that!

    Packing the court is a perfectly viable and legitimate alternative if this SCOTUS is going to go all Republican on Roe vs. Wade, gun control, customer and worker protection, social programmes, LGBT rights, etc.

    The idea that two thirds of the population will just go sit on their hands while this partisan court signs away their rights and protections for two to three generations is just ludicrous. And why would any political party, with the means to do something about it, let that continue to happen anyway?

    Quite frankly, in that context, packing the court is simply the most legal and peaceful way for democracy in the US to defend itself from these proto-fascist practices. The alternative could be a lot worse.

    And who knows, perhaps putting the Republicans on the court on notice will make them think twice?
    It's horrible fucking idea regardless of who does it.

    And it's still a horrible fucking idea even after Mitch has done a number on Supreme Court legitimacy.

    The last thing we want is for people to start thinking there is no point in a judiciary or the rule of law. When that red line is crossed, it's not the left who wins typically. This is such a retarded and self-destructive notion just to satisfy some petty revenge fantasy.
    Basically you want a "return to civility", from what I gather? The red line was already been crossed during the Obama administration, there's no going back now. If the Democrats keep playing nice, the Republicans will keep winning.

    If some rednecks and alt-reichers decide to start a US version of "The Troubles" because they no longer have the electoral power to discriminate against gays, women, and minorities, then it's just something the US is going to have to go through. Even if the Dems don't court pack and play nice with the far right, I think an American "troubles" are inevitable right now.

    Also, Democrats are not "The Left", they are a center-right party.
    Reconstruction II - Electric Boogaloo!
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
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