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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #53881
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    If by "health care for all", you mean universal health care, this didn't become part of the democrat platform until after the last presidential election. (Thanks Bernie) Hillary didn't even support it, despite her push for it as first lady.
    That's mostly because the Republicans have (fair is fair) been far more successful in poisoning the well of political debate in the US. In that it is now almost impossible to talk sensibly about things like health care before you get 'death panels' (or 'socialised medicine') shoved in your face (or worse, if Trump is doing the shoving).

    Ofcourse, they have had massive help from the likes of Fox News et al.

    I guess the point of all this is that Trump, I truly believe, has been the watershed moment for the Republican party, and for a lot of 'Mericans as well. Once they embraced him (which, really, they only did after he won), there was no more going back for them. Let's face it, he is so counter to so many things the Republicans have proclaimed holy in the past (but never lived upto themselves) that for a lot of people this was, and is, really a bridge too far.

    Count in demographics, and there's light at the end of the tunnel ...

    The only problem is that 'Merican voters have an attention span the length of a goldfish's.

    But as long as Trump keeps being Trump, and the Republicans keep standing beside him while he is, that may be less of a problem nowadays ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  2. #53882
    Ruri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    If by "health care for all", you mean universal health care, this didn't become part of the democrat platform until after the last presidential election. (Thanks Bernie) Hillary didn't even support it, despite her push for it as first lady.
    Agreed, but the rapidity with which it's been adopted as a mantra by basically every current Democratic candidate suggests that the base was merely waiting for their leadership to catch up with them. And the ACA was an honest, tragic example of Dems attempting to compromise and find common ground in pursuit of that goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
    Do you even lift? Do you even post.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Ass ass ass.

  3. #53883
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    If by "health care for all", you mean universal health care, this didn't become part of the democrat platform until after the last presidential election. (Thanks Bernie) Hillary didn't even support it, despite her push for it as first lady.
    Agreed, but the rapidity with which it's been adopted as a mantra by basically every current Democratic candidate suggests that the base was merely waiting for their leadership to catch up with them. And the ACA was an honest, tragic example of Dems attempting to compromise and find common ground in pursuit of that goal.
    That's the actual problem with the Democrats: the base is still waiting for the leadership of the party to catch up with them. Mostly because the leadership is still doing politics old-style and, ofcourse, don't want to see themselves be sidelined in the process.

    But, as I see it, that's not a position they can hold on for much longer if there's a blue wave in November. I doubt that the young guns will put up with it for much longer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  4. #53884
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    If by "health care for all", you mean universal health care, this didn't become part of the democrat platform until after the last presidential election. (Thanks Bernie) Hillary didn't even support it, despite her push for it as first lady.
    Agreed, but the rapidity with which it's been adopted as a mantra by basically every current Democratic candidate suggests that the base was merely waiting for their leadership to catch up with them. And the ACA was an honest, tragic example of Dems attempting to compromise and find common ground in pursuit of that goal.
    That's the actual problem with the Democrats: the base is still waiting for the leadership of the party to catch up with them. Mostly because the leadership is still doing politics old-style and, ofcourse, don't want to see themselves be sidelined in the process.

    But, as I see it, that's not a position they can hold on for much longer if there's a blue wave in November. I doubt that the young guns will put up with it for much longer.
    Yeah well the GOP leadership did catch up with the base and look how well that's turned out. No wonder they're cautious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  5. #53885

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    If by "health care for all", you mean universal health care, this didn't become part of the democrat platform until after the last presidential election. (Thanks Bernie) Hillary didn't even support it, despite her push for it as first lady.
    Agreed, but the rapidity with which it's been adopted as a mantra by basically every current Democratic candidate suggests that the base was merely waiting for their leadership to catch up with them. And the ACA was an honest, tragic example of Dems attempting to compromise and find common ground in pursuit of that goal.
    That's the actual problem with the Democrats: the base is still waiting for the leadership of the party to catch up with them. Mostly because the leadership is still doing politics old-style and, ofcourse, don't want to see themselves be sidelined in the process.

    But, as I see it, that's not a position they can hold on for much longer if there's a blue wave in November. I doubt that the young guns will put up with it for much longer.
    Yeah well the GOP leadership did catch up with the base and look how well that's turned out. No wonder they're cautious.
    TBF, the GOP leadership has been encouraging the insanity of their base (while hoping it wouldn't infect their leadership, lol). Their voters didn't leave them behind, they were pushed. Any time during the last decade or two, they could have said "Whoa, hold on, we're not actually insane." But that insanity gave them power, so they fed it.

    The fact that the democratic base has moved left despite the intransigence of the old guard should be a good sign.

    That's not to say that there's no one encouraging people leftward. Sanders et al. have been hard at work selling democratic socialism.

    But no one is going to try to compare Sanders with Limbaugh or Alex Jones.

      Spoiler:
    Except maybe Don.
    Totally not Victoria Stecker forgetting his password and not having access to his work email.

  6. #53886
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    Fits nicely here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post


    

  7. #53887
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    "Did you vote Republican"
    "Yes"
    *BLAM*

    problem solved

    no reason to vote republican, prove me wrong

  8. #53888

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    "Did you vote Republican"
    "Yes"
    *BLAM*

    problem solved

    no reason to vote republican, prove me wrong
    To annoy you seems to be pretty good.

  9. #53889

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    "Did you vote Republican"
    "Yes"
    *BLAM*

    problem solved

    no reason to vote republican, prove me wrong
    If you live a life of wealth and comfort (or are at least persuaded into believing so) and your vote helps to maintain that position (or the belief of position), then what is the harm if it causes a little oppression?

  10. #53890

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruri View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    If by "health care for all", you mean universal health care, this didn't become part of the democrat platform until after the last presidential election. (Thanks Bernie) Hillary didn't even support it, despite her push for it as first lady.
    Agreed, but the rapidity with which it's been adopted as a mantra by basically every current Democratic candidate suggests that the base was merely waiting for their leadership to catch up with them. And the ACA was an honest, tragic example of Dems attempting to compromise and find common ground in pursuit of that goal.
    That's the actual problem with the Democrats: the base is still waiting for the leadership of the party to catch up with them. Mostly because the leadership is still doing politics old-style and, ofcourse, don't want to see themselves be sidelined in the process.

    But, as I see it, that's not a position they can hold on for much longer if there's a blue wave in November. I doubt that the young guns will put up with it for much longer.
    The Democratic establishment still has broad control over the party and heavy influence in the media. Iirc no Democratic Senators lost their primaries and only a couple of Democratic members of Congress did. Bear in mind that Congressional seats contain roughly 710,000 people so are very difficult to win without media support or at least an impartial media that covers all candidates fairly. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez did stage such an upset but she did it in a ridiculously low turn-out election - she won with ~16,000 votes in a ~9% turnout election.

    There may be a a few more lefties that get elected but the establishment has been very busy recruiting MIC types to run in 'competitive' districts so it's likely that the actual power swing will be to more wars.

  11. #53891
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Big business friendly*. Citizens United supreme court ruling really broke US democracy.
    That one is really a lesson all other democratic countries should learn from once something similar is coming up in their country.
    Yep, learn from our mistakes, and make the equivalent of your Republicans scared for their lives and to leave their houses. Do not allow them to fester like we have.
    or.. OR.. Force your entire population to actually vote so a minority cant run the country.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  12. #53892
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Big business friendly*. Citizens United supreme court ruling really broke US democracy.
    That one is really a lesson all other democratic countries should learn from once something similar is coming up in their country.
    Yep, learn from our mistakes, and make the equivalent of your Republicans scared for their lives and to leave their houses. Do not allow them to fester like we have.
    or.. OR.. Force your entire population to actually vote so a minority cant run the country.
    How's that working out for us?

  13. #53893
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Big business friendly*. Citizens United supreme court ruling really broke US democracy.
    That one is really a lesson all other democratic countries should learn from once something similar is coming up in their country.
    Yep, learn from our mistakes, and make the equivalent of your Republicans scared for their lives and to leave their houses. Do not allow them to fester like we have.
    or.. OR.. Force your entire population to actually vote so a minority cant run the country.
    How's that working out for us?
    I duno.. The government is generally not pandering much to minorities and the racists and bigots are generally kept under control.. We just have a complete wasteland of non-people to vote for..

    I mean.. At least we dont have trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  14. #53894
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Big business friendly*. Citizens United supreme court ruling really broke US democracy.
    That one is really a lesson all other democratic countries should learn from once something similar is coming up in their country.
    Yep, learn from our mistakes, and make the equivalent of your Republicans scared for their lives and to leave their houses. Do not allow them to fester like we have.
    or.. OR.. Force your entire population to actually vote so a minority cant run the country.
    How's that working out for us?
    I duno.. The government is generally not pandering much to minorities and the racists and bigots are generally kept under control.. We just have a complete wasteland of non-people to vote for..

    I mean.. At least we dont have trump.
    Depends if you consider the coal lobby and Murdoch press as "minority" or "racists and bigots".

  15. #53895
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Big business friendly*. Citizens United supreme court ruling really broke US democracy.
    That one is really a lesson all other democratic countries should learn from once something similar is coming up in their country.
    Yep, learn from our mistakes, and make the equivalent of your Republicans scared for their lives and to leave their houses. Do not allow them to fester like we have.
    or.. OR.. Force your entire population to actually vote so a minority cant run the country.
    How's that working out for us?
    I duno.. The government is generally not pandering much to minorities and the racists and bigots are generally kept under control.. We just have a complete wasteland of non-people to vote for..

    I mean.. At least we dont have trump.
    meh

  16. #53896
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Big business friendly*. Citizens United supreme court ruling really broke US democracy.
    That one is really a lesson all other democratic countries should learn from once something similar is coming up in their country.
    Yep, learn from our mistakes, and make the equivalent of your Republicans scared for their lives and to leave their houses. Do not allow them to fester like we have.
    or.. OR.. Force your entire population to actually vote so a minority cant run the country.
    How's that working out for us?
    I duno.. The government is generally not pandering much to minorities and the racists and bigots are generally kept under control.. We just have a complete wasteland of non-people to vote for..

    I mean.. At least we dont have trump.
    Yeeaaahhhhhhhh.. I'm not saying its a perfect system.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  17. #53897
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Well, if Kavanaugh becomes an issue, the Democrats can always pack the court when they're back in power ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  18. #53898

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Well, if Kavanaugh becomes an issue, the Democrats can always pack the court when they're back in power ...
    Nah, they'll just let the Republicans say "nope" again despite having the power to make it happen.

  19. #53899
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Well, if Kavanaugh becomes an issue, the Democrats can always pack the court when they're back in power ...
    Nah, they'll just let the Republicans say "nope" again despite having the power to make it happen.
    It's just legislation. The number of on the bench is not in the constitution. Lincoln packed the court to make sure emancipation got through.

    If the Dems gain enough seats, there's actually no way to stop them doing it. They can just put two more progressive judges on the bench, and not have to worry about SCOTUS. And with the Republicans having gone for the nuclear option, they can do it with a straight majority as well.

    Whether they will is a different matter though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  20. #53900
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Well, if Kavanaugh becomes an issue, the Democrats can always pack the court when they're back in power ...
    Nah, they'll just let the Republicans say "nope" again despite having the power to make it happen.
    At least the dems were ballsy enough to bump Scalia off, just need to send a few more justices on "hunting trips." :trollface:
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


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