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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #50961
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    .... but damn it might be nice to have an ugly, uncharasmatic President who absolutely knows public policy, is unquestionably ethical and entirely competent for a change.
    That would be nice, but best of luck with that.
    I get it mate, be assured, just a damn shame that our society here values all the wrong things.

    Of course, we do that in a whole host of ways, not just voting for President, but President is a big ticket item.

    Yeah, pipe dream, I know.


  2. #50962
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    I mean, if there is one good thing about all this, if shows up how retarded the concept of American exceptionalism really is, if this is the best we can do at president. We elected a tiny, petty, vile human being as our leader and nearly 30% of our population is overjoyed at this because it gives them permission to be the vile human beings they really are.

    Perhaps we can learn to be humble and genuinely willing to help again in the future, like we where when we where really great.
    meh

  3. #50963

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    .... but damn it might be nice to have an ugly, uncharasmatic President who absolutely knows public policy, is unquestionably ethical and entirely competent for a change.
    That would be nice, but best of luck with that.
    I get it mate, be assured, just a damn shame that our society here values all the wrong things.

    Of course, we do that in a whole host of ways, not just voting for President, but President is a big ticket item.

    Yeah, pipe dream, I know.
    In fairness thats hardly US specific, though i think you guys take it to pretty much the most extreme, especially on the money front. Your Presidential campaigns are just mind boggling to outsiders.

  4. #50964
    Keckers's Avatar
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    You need to be a professional politician to successfully navigate the establishment nowadays and make a career of politics. There are entire industries which exist as an extension of politics and political establishment (lobbying and thinktanks), there are whole hosts of clumsy compromises between tradition and pragmatism in the way states function, there's a lot of historical baggage and institutional inertia in civil services, and then you have the monolithic party structures which are almost deliberately dense and opaque. The game requires professionalism and expert knowledge to rise through the ranks.

    Trump is a massive anomaly, and he's got to where he is with shameless self promotion, 'wealth' and getting lucky with the way the GOP is structured. You aren't going to get a 'good guy' non-politician into the White House because the only way to navigate politics is either through knowing the game (and thus being a politician) or bulldozing through the traditional obstacles with money and/or cultural clout.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  5. #50965
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    You need to be a professional politician to successfully navigate the establishment nowadays and make a career of politics. There are entire industries which exist as an extension of politics and political establishment (lobbying and thinktanks), there are whole hosts of clumsy compromises between tradition and pragmatism in the way states function, there's a lot of historical baggage and institutional inertia in civil services, and then you have the monolithic party structures which are almost deliberately dense and opaque. The game requires professionalism and expert knowledge to rise through the ranks.

    Trump is a massive anomaly, and he's got to where he is with shameless self promotion, 'wealth' and getting lucky with the way the GOP is structured. You aren't going to get a 'good guy' non-politician into the White House because the only way to navigate politics is either through knowing the game (and thus being a politician) or bulldozing through the traditional obstacles with money and/or cultural clout.
    What about Obama? Or Carter? Or Truman?

    A community organiser, a peanut farmer, and a haberdasher. Are you telling me they didn't know what it was like to stand in a grocery line? Work for a living?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  6. #50966
    Keckers's Avatar
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    They were absolutely professional politicians.

    Carter had been in politics since '63, Truman was a judge in the early 20s and Obama was a member of the Illinois Senate in '97. They all had political pedigree, know how the establishment operated and had party connections and therefore coaching well before they sat in the White House.

    Terrible examples to choose.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  7. #50967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    You need to be a professional politician to successfully navigate the establishment nowadays and make a career of politics. There are entire industries which exist as an extension of politics and political establishment (lobbying and thinktanks), there are whole hosts of clumsy compromises between tradition and pragmatism in the way states function, there's a lot of historical baggage and institutional inertia in civil services, and then you have the monolithic party structures which are almost deliberately dense and opaque. The game requires professionalism and expert knowledge to rise through the ranks.

    Trump is a massive anomaly, and he's got to where he is with shameless self promotion, 'wealth' and getting lucky with the way the GOP is structured. You aren't going to get a 'good guy' non-politician into the White House because the only way to navigate politics is either through knowing the game (and thus being a politician) or bulldozing through the traditional obstacles with money and/or cultural clout.
    What about Obama? Or Carter? Or Truman?

    A community organiser, a peanut farmer, and a haberdasher. Are you telling me they didn't know what it was like to stand in a grocery line? Work for a living?
    "community organiser" is about as career politician as you can get.

  8. #50968

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    .... but damn it might be nice to have an ugly, uncharasmatic President who absolutely knows public policy, is unquestionably ethical and entirely competent for a change.
    That would be nice, but best of luck with that.
    Here's what I thought might be the election campaign slogan that would show such a candidate: "I'll do so many things right, that absolutely no one will even consider reelecting me."

    And in fact such a candidate would implement the right policies. Before Trump, there was the vague possibility that such a candidate would do everything wrong and therefore would lose all support, even from his most favorable supporters. But as Trump has proven: doing everything wrong doesn't do that.

  9. #50969
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    They were absolutely professional politicians.

    Carter had been in politics since '63, Truman was a judge in the early 20s and Obama was a member of the Illinois Senate in '97. They all had political pedigree, know how the establishment operated and had party connections and therefore coaching well before they sat in the White House.

    Terrible examples to choose.
    Well, they were the best examples I could come up with of presidents who, while having had a career in politics (yes), also knew what it meant to, like, stand in a grocery line etc.

    Trump doesn't have political pedigree, but then again, has absolutely no experience of what it is like to be an absolutely ordinary Joe Smoe waiting in a grocery line. How is that working out?

    Just to be clear: I agree that too much about US politics is about how things look, and not enough about policy etc. And I agree that that is a bad thing ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  10. #50970
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/wh...661b7dc7311644

    Something something fox, something something hen house.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  11. #50971
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    They were absolutely professional politicians.

    Carter had been in politics since '63, Truman was a judge in the early 20s and Obama was a member of the Illinois Senate in '97. They all had political pedigree, know how the establishment operated and had party connections and therefore coaching well before they sat in the White House.

    Terrible examples to choose.
    Well, they were the best examples I could come up with of presidents who, while having had a career in politics (yes), also knew what it meant to, like, stand in a grocery line etc.

    Trump doesn't have political pedigree, but then again, has absolutely no experience of what it is like to be an absolutely ordinary Joe Smoe waiting in a grocery line. How is that working out?

    Just to be clear: I agree that too much about US politics is about how things look, and not enough about policy etc. And I agree that that is a bad thing ...
    If they were the best examples you could find then you just proved my point for me
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  12. #50972
    Omega Supreme's Avatar
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    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/02/polit...za/index.html?

    Trump Jr calling Demos Nazis, and saying they're the same, ideologically.

    While also saying history is biased against conservatism.

    Holy shit. Does he not know who the fuck sponsored education for about 1200 years and was the primary source? What's that? The Catholic Church?

    Fake news!

    That is some next level from Junior.

  13. #50973
    Kai's Avatar
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    "We're going to improve the delivery of public services."

    "They want to make the trains run on time. Nazis!"

  14. #50974
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Personally speaking, I don't think you can call proto-fascist liars who blatantly ignore science while obnoxiously trying to destroy every legal protection this natural country has while on spending sprees like drunken sailors on shore leave in Thailand conservatives, but that's just me.
    meh

  15. #50975
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Personally speaking, I don't think you can call proto-fascist liars who blatantly ignore science while obnoxiously trying to destroy every legal protection this natural country has while on spending sprees like drunken sailors on shore leave in Thailand conservatives, but that's just me.
    We've been calling them conservatives for a century now. It might be time to accept that the English language has once again evolved in that adorably irrational way we've all come to know and love.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  16. #50976
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Personally speaking, I don't think you can call proto-fascist liars who blatantly ignore science while obnoxiously trying to destroy every legal protection this natural country has while on spending sprees like drunken sailors on shore leave in Thailand conservatives, but that's just me.
    We've been calling them conservatives for a century now. It might be time to accept that the English language has once again evolved in that adorably irrational way we've all come to know and love.
    Could just stick to the traditional word for them.. Wankers..
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  17. #50977
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    They were absolutely professional politicians.

    Carter had been in politics since '63, Truman was a judge in the early 20s and Obama was a member of the Illinois Senate in '97. They all had political pedigree, know how the establishment operated and had party connections and therefore coaching well before they sat in the White House.

    Terrible examples to choose.
    Well, they were the best examples I could come up with of presidents who, while having had a career in politics (yes), also knew what it meant to, like, stand in a grocery line etc.

    Trump doesn't have political pedigree, but then again, has absolutely no experience of what it is like to be an absolutely ordinary Joe Smoe waiting in a grocery line. How is that working out?

    Just to be clear: I agree that too much about US politics is about how things look, and not enough about policy etc. And I agree that that is a bad thing ...
    If they were the best examples you could find then you just proved my point for me
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  18. #50978
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    I'm socially liberal, but a fiscal wanker.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  19. #50979

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    I'm socially liberal, but a fiscal wanker.
    So you wank off businessmen for money?

    This actually works really well. Good shout Lana.

  20. #50980
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    I'm socially liberal, but a fiscal wanker.
    I am (I think):

    Social Rights/Equality Policy - Progressive

    Social Safety-Net Policy - Liberal trending leftwards

    Tax Policy - Trending liberal now (higher rates for the ultra-wealthy + all income same rates)

    Fiscal Management and Accountability of Govt. Policy - Ultra-Conservative

    Defense Policy - Isolationist/Non-Interventionist

    Border Policy - Conservative (on border control and enforcement), Liberal (on Policy)

    Law & Order Policy - Conservative

    Drug Policy - Progressive

    Abortion Policy - Moderate (some limits, some allowances)

    Wanker Policy - Fully supportive

    Pillow-Fucker Policy - Anti-Pillowist


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