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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #48021
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    I knew Xeno was bad, but his latest bout of vehemently defending genocide is some next level terrible.
    What a plot twist, vocal SJW turns out to be closeted whatever he fights against. Honestly I don't know why you act surprised, did you miss his 'gas the slavs' posting spree?

  2. #48022
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    It's a goddamn retard fight. Both in this thread and over there.
    meh

  3. #48023
    walrus's Avatar
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    Is crimes against humanity a bannable offense?
      Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    But islamism IS a product of class warfare. Rich white countries come into developing brown dictatorships, wreck the leadership, infrastructure and economy and then act all surprised that religious fanaticism is on the rise.
    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    walrus isnt a bad poster.
    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    also i like walrus.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmaNutin View Post
    Yer a hoot

  4. #48024
    vDJ's Avatar
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    Why not put Erdogan and Netanyahu on a island and let them settle this ?

  5. #48025
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vDJ View Post
    Why not put Erdogan and Netanyahu on a island and let them settle this ?
    Because Netanyahu, having served in the fucking sayeret matkal, would win.

  6. #48026
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vDJ View Post
    Why not put Erdogan and Netanyahu on a island and let them settle this ?
    Because Netanyahu, having served in the fucking sayeret matkal, would win.
    Yes but if the island in question was, say in the English channel, they might solve another problem at the same time.

  7. #48027
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    I knew Xeno was bad, but his latest bout of vehemently defending genocide is some next level terrible.
    Good thing I didn't do that then

    If Israel are conducting a genocide then they're doing the worlds worst job of it, who manages to let the purged population increase massively instead?


    Was excessive force used? Yes
    Are Israel being nobbers with settlement expansion etc? Yes


    edit: removed some excessive flamebait so people don't miss the bolded part
    Last edited by XenosisMk4; May 16 2018 at 10:08:09 AM.

  8. #48028

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    The "good news" now is nothing short of a military preemptive strike will stop Iran, which I totally acknowledge is an ideological driven and therefore dangerous regime - owning and using nukes. That bestest Korean leader already offered Iran those a couple of years ago ...
    So without the U.S., the entirety of the EU, Russia and China can do nothing then? Sad commentary on the irrelevance of the EU in global affairs, wouldn't you say?

    If a non-nuclear Iran is so vital, maybe the EU should take the lead and fix the problem without the U.S. (especially given the horrible leadership here at current).
    What the hell do you think was tried with that contract? Sadly enough one can't fix things with "team killers" playing in the own team. In case you haven't recognized it by now: there are other ways than just bombing the shit outta everything to "fix things". And perhaps the U.S. should let the "adults" in the room do their stuff, because they have bit of experience how to support people in turning against their own regimes.

    Also - why the fuck should the EU always fix the mess that the U.S. leaves behind? The U.S. replaced a democratically elected president in Iran, installing a dictorship there (because yet again of oil) which led to the rise of the current regime. Are the U.S. intelligence services still that bad that they don't realize that there's a ongoing power struggle in Iran, with Rohani representing the moderate
    forces in Iran. And he is/was a proponent for the that treaty and lobbied to sign it. To which the radical forces, currently represented by Khamenei, finally agreed to, not without loudly raising their concerns. And those extremist forces are now in the (for them) comfortable "See - I told ya!" position.

    Here's something to consider: there are "conventional"/power-driven (of a lack of better terms) authorian regimes in the world, e.g. Syria, Saudi Arabia or Iraq under Hussein, Lybia under Gaddafi. And then there are ideological driven authorian regimes (like Cuba or Iran). To the former, sanctions are a pain. To the later not so much. Often sanctions just reaffirms their notion and make their convictions stronger.
    Sanctions only work if there is enough universal support to make them work. Cuba didn't work because there was not enough universal support (was also a bad tactic for Cuba specifically IMO, but that's another thread).

    If the U.S., China, Russia and the EU enforced the sanctions in unity against Iran, they would have worked.
    All major power blocks supporting actions against rogue states would indeed be the preferable way to deal with it. Just that the major opponents don't play along too nicely with each other ... with a few notable exceptions. Lemme think about a second for a fitting example. Oh hey! There was a treaty with Iran supported and developed by all big players.

  9. #48029

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    but Israel is limited in what they can actually do to diffuse the situation.
    I know this is you we're talking about but can you stop being a fucking mong
    What's your suggestion? tear the fence down and let things go wild?
    The fences they built on a foreign nation's ground? That's ofc never ever an option...

  10. #48030
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    but Israel is limited in what they can actually do to diffuse the situation.
    I know this is you we're talking about but can you stop being a fucking mong
    What's your suggestion? tear the fence down and let things go wild?
    The fences they built on a foreign nation's ground? That's ofc never ever an option...
    Is that a realistic option at this point?

  11. #48031
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    more realistic than the 2 state solution everybody is still waxing lyrical about.

    because a 2-state solution with Israel in control of all the infrastructure and the whole place pockmarked with israeli settlements is gr8.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  12. #48032

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    A quick reminder, which has already been posted here a couple of times, that at least that Israel/Palestine issue was on a good way back in the 1990s(?). But extremists on both sides killed that quickly. Having resolved that issue would've done a lot to advance the whole region to a state that would not have been exactly a peaceful paradise - I doubt that will ever happen - but would have at least turned down the constant state-level tensions going on there.

    I mean, how many wars are currently going on down there? I've really lost track of 'em. E.g. that Saudi + Jemen vs. Iran + Jemen conflict is practically non-existant in public perception.

  13. #48033
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    In a somewhat amusing twist, a Hamas official speaking to Al-Aqsa (Hamas controlled media) claims "50 of the 62 (were) martyrs of Hamas"

    Make of that what you will (I assume it's not all 62 because retroactively claiming children are martyrs for your cause isn't very good PR)
    Last edited by XenosisMk4; May 16 2018 at 02:25:19 PM.

  14. #48034
    Liare's Avatar
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    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  15. #48035
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    Last few pages, FHC living up to expectations fully.

    In ACTUAL U.S. Political News, the Senate Judiciary Committee has released ~2,000 pages regarding Trump Jr. and the Trump Tower + Russian Lawyer Dirt-on-Clinton meeting.

    https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/pre...-tower-meeting

    Enjoy.

    In other news, Gena Haspel is likely to be confirmed as new CIA Head, despite objections from (amongst others) McCain:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...D=ansmsnnews11
    Last edited by Alistair; May 16 2018 at 03:25:33 PM.


  16. #48036
    Donor Rami's Avatar
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    For those of you unfamiliar with some of the specifics, the whole Israel affair has been brewing for a long, long time but is primarily a problem made in the early 20th century.

    * Before and during the first world war the Ottomans (Turkish) ruled Palestine

    * Britain promised (1915/1916) the formation of a united Arab state in the Palestinian region in exchange for mass Arab support in uprising against the Ottomans

    * In 1917 Britain also promised to establish a Jewish national state in the same region. There are many reasons why this was done, including such things as the Restoration movement dating up to several hundred years prior, all the way up to a blatant need for the Zionist money machine. Either way, the 'Balfour declaration' made this promise

    * 1918, as WWI finished, Britain was granted oversight of the Palestinian region and Jewish migration began.

    * In 1922 the nowadays Israel and Palestine region consisted of ~80% Arabs, ~10% Jews and ~10% Christians.

    * Migration continued up to WWII, they brought a lot of infrastructure and wealth with them

    * Prior to WWII between 1936-1939 there was a big Arab revolt in Palestine, primarily against British rule and also Jewish migration (and the implications of such long term large migration). Lots of people died on both sides, Britain tried policing hard but didn't really suppress it. It petered out but it did make for the 'white paper of 1939' where Britain *withdrew* their promise from 1917 to establish a state.

    * During WWII, in terms of this particular affair things were pretty quiet, but of note is the Jewish Brigade that was formed to fight in the war would later contribute forming the Israeli Defence Forces (ISD). Second item of note was that due to the white paper of 1993 Britain limited the migration that was allowed into Palestine, this would come back after the war.

    * After WWII the British were forced to leave the region for numerous reasons: the cost of maintaining an army, the negativity around the British stopping the Jewish from migrating due to the White Paper which was seen as harsh on the Holocaust survivors, promises made to the US to whom Britain now owed a lot of money

    * In 1947 the British announced they wanted to stop their mandate but they explicitly *refused* to ensure that the solution for this would be good to both sides (Arab and Jew). In the same year the UN passed resolution 18 that dictated the creation of *both* an Arab state and a Jewish state, Jerusalem in a special mixed state. The Palestinian Jewish leaders accepted, the Palestinian Arabs and *all* Arab states rejected it, seeing it as a violation of promises made to them. Civil war ensued. British withdrew from the stage at this point, washing their hands of the conflict.

    * The conflict lasted for less than 6 months, the Jewish forces won and the Arab Palestinian society collapsed.

    * 1948, the state of Israel is officially announced. Arab states immediately took control over Palestinian territory but failed to take Isreali territory. In 1949 a truce was agreed, the time that provided was used by Israel to drastically bolster its army. This conflict, and the civil war before it, drove out huge amounts of Arab Palestinians, and Israel expanded to its current borders.

    * Also in 1949 the Arab states announced the creation of a new Arab state in Palestine, directly countering the creation of Israel. Called the All-Palestine Government in the Arab League, it suffered from credibility issues relying heavily on Egypt for leadership, infrastructure and military. Jordan did not recognise it either. Over the next few decades the Palestinians would settle primarily in the west bank and gaza strip.

    * 1959, Israel invades the Egyptian Sinai, but fails to hold it. They do succeed in their aim of getting access to the Straights of Tiran which was important for their shipping and economy. Invading shit never helped relations, so time goes on.

    * 1960-1967, tensions rise, the Arab states, and specifically Egypt threaten to close the straights once again, which Israel said would be an act of war. June 5th 1967, Israel surprise attacks the Egyptian air force bases, pretty much wiping out their air force. Israel then wage a ground offensive across the Sinai, again catching Egypt by surprise and gaining the Sinai region in the end. Egypt gets Syria and Jordan involved who strike back, but that invites Israeli counter strikes and they take the west bank, east Jerusalem and the golan heights.

    * After the short war, the UN passed resolution 242 demanding Israel return the conquered areas in return for a cessation of aggression by Arab states. Israel agrees, Arab Palestinians re-affirm their demand to create an Arab state and the removal of Israel.

    * 1973, Egypt attack across the Suez to retake the Golan heights, they catch Israel by surprise but the war conclused without a real winner. In peace negotiations the Golan heights are returned to Egypt.


    Tbh, the last 40-odd years have been a persistent back and forth with Israel encroaching on more territory and the likelihood of a Palestian state decreasing over time.

    TL Fucking DR

  17. #48037
    Caldrion Dosto's Avatar
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    At the end you confuse Sinai with Golan heights.

    Egypt retook Sinai.

  18. #48038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caldrion Dosto View Post
    At the end you confuse Sinai with Golan heights.

    Egypt retook Sinai.
    They didn't retake the Sinai. It was given back to them at the Camp David peace accords between Begin and Sadat (for which Sadat got assassinated). Rabin was assassinated as well after the Oslo treaty in the 90s. My big take on middle east politics goes like this: You agree to peace, the other side and your side sees it as weakness and shit happens.
    Будь смиренным, будь кротким, не заботься о тленном
    Власти, данной Богом, сынок, будь навеки верным...
    Я люблю Росcию, я - патриот

  19. #48039
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    In a somewhat amusing twist, a Hamas official speaking to Al-Aqsa (Hamas controlled media) claims "50 of the 62 (were) martyrs of Hamas"

    Make of that what you will (I assume it's not all 62 because retroactively claiming children are martyrs for your cause isn't very good PR)
    "Haha made you murder children!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  20. #48040
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    They were deliberately sniping clearly uniformed medical personnel too. They literally could not get to a hospital after they got shot because the Israelis were suppressing the paramedics with sniper fire. It was 100% deliberate targeting.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...r-gaza-border/

    A Canadian-Palestinian doctor was shot in the legs by an Israeli sniper and one of his paramedics was killed on the Gaza border Monday as clashes between Palestinian protesters and Israeli Defence Forces left dozens dead and more than 1,000 wounded.

    “I am very seasoned about not being shot at. I know where to stand. I know where to be. I know how not to get shot,” he told The Globe and Mail in a telephone interview from Gaza where he recuperating. “Snipers don’t reach me because of mistakes. I did everything right. We were all huddled. We were high visibility. It was quiet at the exact moment I got shot. The bullet went through my left leg, through my right leg out and hit the ground.

    ...

    About an hour later, Mr. Abuhassanin was shot by a sniper while providing medical help to protesters north of where Dr. Loubani was shot. “There was relatively heavy fire that was going on. He was wearing a high visibility jacket. It was clearly marked. He was shot in the chest,” Dr. Loubani said. “They couldn’t remove him. They couldn’t recover him for about 30 minutes until finally they dragged him to a blind spot and then dragged him down a hill and took him to the hospital in a civilian vehicle. He died before he got to the hospital.”


    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; May 16 2018 at 07:06:15 PM.

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