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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #47561
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Why does Saudi get Sovereign immunity but not Iran?
    One is an "Ally" and one is a "Bad Guy"?
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  2. #47562

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    And astonishingly enough, both have plenty of oil. Given the body count both have caused, one might think that Iran may be the better ally ...

  3. #47563
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Did you read the article? He's arguing that peace on any terms is not necessary a good idea and that Trump may agree to the win of 'peace' for domestic purposes that aren't in America's best long term strategic interests.

    Sure the title is complete fucking click bait but the premise is sound: peace on any terms in the Korean peninuslar could be worse than the status quo.
    In theory, could the same argument be made about the Iran Nuclear deal?

    That the deal (which, as an aside, really should have been a treaty and gone through Congress), may have served immediate domestic political interests, but long term may prove not to be (as you say) in "America's best long term strategic interests".


  4. #47564
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    do you have a point rolling around in that soft brain of yours?

    The media has bias against democraticaly elected 45th president of the United States of America Donald J. Trump
    whats your point?
    The media doesnt know what to post about so they make up these dumb stories while crying about fake news even though they are it
    What about these stories is "made up"
    End of war in N. Korea is somehow bad?
    (1) It hasnt ended yet

    (2) The current situation was precipitated by S Korea realising that the US is worthless as an ally. If the war does end it'll be good for Korea, but the US isn't going to like the outcome much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
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  5. #47565
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    do you have a point rolling around in that soft brain of yours?

    The media has bias against democraticaly elected 45th president of the United States of America Donald J. Trump
    whats your point?
    The media doesnt know what to post about so they make up these dumb stories while crying about fake news even though they are it
    What about these stories is "made up"
    End of war in N. Korea is somehow bad?
    (1) It hasnt ended yet

    (2) The current situation was precipitated by S Korea realising that the US is worthless as an ally. If the war does end it'll be good for Korea, but the US isn't going to like the outcome much.
    um

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-43971847

  6. #47566
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Did you read the article? He's arguing that peace on any terms is not necessary a good idea and that Trump may agree to the win of 'peace' for domestic purposes that aren't in America's best long term strategic interests.

    Sure the title is complete fucking click bait but the premise is sound: peace on any terms in the Korean peninuslar could be worse than the status quo.
    In theory, could the same argument be made about the Iran Nuclear deal?

    That the deal (which, as an aside, really should have been a treaty and gone through Congress), may have served immediate domestic political interests, but long term may prove not to be (as you say) in "America's best long term strategic interests".
    Yes. And I'd consider that to be valid column inches. I think conservative criticism of the Iran Nuclear deal on the premise that too much was given away and not enough gained is a solid premise on which to criticise the deal. I disagree with their conclusions but not the argument.

    There's a difference between saying 'left wing media are biased and you need to understand that when reading their sources' (that article significantly plays up the negative consequences while barely mentioning any concrete benefits) and highlight the known tendency of news sources to criticise their guy more than our guy. But decrying valid criticism as 'fake news' just makes you look like an idiot.

    Basically if Smarnca had gone:

    "lol this is exactly the same argument that Republicans make about Iran"

    I'd have considered it good bants and on the money.

  7. #47567
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    It would be valid column inches, if the Iraq War hadn't happened. I'd sooner throw their opinions in the trash than read them, because they have 0 credibility in this space imo

    Also can you blame Obama for rushing into the deal, knowing the cast of creatures who could inherit the White House?

  8. #47568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    (2) The current situation was precipitated by S Korea realising that the US is worthless as an ally. If the war does end it'll be good for Korea, but the US isn't going to like the outcome much.
    You think south korea kept the war going because they thought the US was a good ally, and now you think they think the US is a worthless ally so they're ending the war?

    Righto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  9. #47569
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It would be valid column inches, if the Iraq War hadn't happened. I'd sooner throw their opinions in the trash than read them, because they have 0 credibility in this space imo

    Also can you blame Obama for rushing into the deal, knowing the cast of creatures who could inherit the White House?
    Did he rush into the deal, or did he move with a sense of urgency?
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  10. #47570
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Trump admits to reimbursing Stormy Daniels payment, but 'not from the campaign'
    US President Donald Trump admits to reimbursing lawyer Michael Cohen for the $130,000 hush payment to Stormy Daniels — a payment he once claimed no knowledge of — but insists the money did not come from campaign funds.
    Mr Trump's tweets outlining the arrangement came after Rudy Giuliani, one of his attorneys, said Wednesday that Mr Trump reimbursed Mr Cohen for $130,000 in hush money to Ms Daniels days before the 2016 presidential election, appearing to contradict the President's past claims that he didn't know the source of the money.

    During an appearance on Fox News Channel's "Hannity," Mr Giuliani said the money to repay Michael Cohen had been "funnelled ... through the law firm and the President repaid it."

    Asked if Mr Trump knew about the arrangement, Mr Giuliani said: "He didn't know about the specifics of it, as far as I know. But he did know about the general arrangement, that Michael would take care of things like this, like I take care of things like this for my clients. I don't burden them with every single thing that comes along. These are busy people."

  11. #47571
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Trump admits to reimbursing Stormy Daniels payment, but 'not from the campaign'
    US President Donald Trump admits to reimbursing lawyer Michael Cohen for the $130,000 hush payment to Stormy Daniels — a payment he once claimed no knowledge of — but insists the money did not come from campaign funds.
    Mr Trump's tweets outlining the arrangement came after Rudy Giuliani, one of his attorneys, said Wednesday that Mr Trump reimbursed Mr Cohen for $130,000 in hush money to Ms Daniels days before the 2016 presidential election, appearing to contradict the President's past claims that he didn't know the source of the money.

    During an appearance on Fox News Channel's "Hannity," Mr Giuliani said the money to repay Michael Cohen had been "funnelled ... through the law firm and the President repaid it."

    Asked if Mr Trump knew about the arrangement, Mr Giuliani said: "He didn't know about the specifics of it, as far as I know. But he did know about the general arrangement, that Michael would take care of things like this, like I take care of things like this for my clients. I don't burden them with every single thing that comes along. These are busy people."
    Question: if he paid Cohen on a 'retainer', does that even matter?

    The hush money Cohen paid to Stormy Daniels was paid to keep her quiet during the campaign. Obviously this was to the benefit of Trump's campaign. Does it matter if the candidate pays it out from his own funds, or from campaign funds? Where's the distinction anyway?

    Any campaign finance specialists around here?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  12. #47572
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    I don't think there is a limit on personal spending, as that might make it so a non rich person would have a chance at getting elected. Edit: looks like it would still be illegal, as it wasn't reported.
    Last edited by Dorvil Barranis; May 3 2018 at 04:49:24 PM.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  13. #47573

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    I don't think there is a limit on personal spending, as that might make it so a non rich person would have a chance at getting elected. Edit: looks like it would still be illegal, as it wasn't reported.
    Yeah, the unreported payment is the problem.

    And the fact that they may have split the payment up into little pieces to avoid scrutiny, which is also illegal.

    For example, it's fine if I pay you $130k, so long as I report it. Failing to report it isn't ok, and splitting it into 20 payments of $6500 so that no one notices is another violation.
    Totally not Victoria Stecker forgetting his password and not having access to his work email.

  14. #47574
    Omega Supreme's Avatar
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    Oh....oh fuck.

  15. #47575
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    And how exactly is a "blue wave" supposed to convince Trump supporters to abandon the Cheeto-in-Chief?
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  16. #47576
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    And astonishingly enough, both have plenty of oil. Given the oil amount both have, one might think that Saudi Arabia may be the better ally ...
    fyp

  17. #47577
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    (2) The current situation was precipitated by S Korea realising that the US is worthless as an ally. If the war does end it'll be good for Korea, but the US isn't going to like the outcome much.
    You think south korea kept the war going because they thought the US was a good ally, and now you think they think the US is a worthless ally so they're ending the war?

    Righto.
    Well you parse it then. The US has definitely shown Korea that they're a worthless ally. South Korea has definitely made a huge effort to reach out to North Korea. Perhaps these events are unrelated?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
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  18. #47578
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Trump admits to reimbursing Stormy Daniels payment, but 'not from the campaign'
    US President Donald Trump admits to reimbursing lawyer Michael Cohen for the $130,000 hush payment to Stormy Daniels — a payment he once claimed no knowledge of — but insists the money did not come from campaign funds.
    Mr Trump's tweets outlining the arrangement came after Rudy Giuliani, one of his attorneys, said Wednesday that Mr Trump reimbursed Mr Cohen for $130,000 in hush money to Ms Daniels days before the 2016 presidential election, appearing to contradict the President's past claims that he didn't know the source of the money.

    During an appearance on Fox News Channel's "Hannity," Mr Giuliani said the money to repay Michael Cohen had been "funnelled ... through the law firm and the President repaid it."

    Asked if Mr Trump knew about the arrangement, Mr Giuliani said: "He didn't know about the specifics of it, as far as I know. But he did know about the general arrangement, that Michael would take care of things like this, like I take care of things like this for my clients. I don't burden them with every single thing that comes along. These are busy people."
    Question: if he paid Cohen on a 'retainer', does that even matter?

    The hush money Cohen paid to Stormy Daniels was paid to keep her quiet during the campaign. Obviously this was to the benefit of Trump's campaign. Does it matter if the candidate pays it out from his own funds, or from campaign funds? Where's the distinction anyway?

    Any campaign finance specialists around here?
    The distinction is where the enforcement agency decides it is, and where the courts (ultimately) agree or disagree.

    The law is written broadly enough that this payment could be considered a violation. Or maybe not.

    The courts will have to (I think ultimately) make that distinction based on how they read the laws in question.

    Here is a Wash Post article on this topic, I would presume they know more than any of us do on the topic:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.526f859d3747


  19. #47579
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...serious-crimes

    "As we already know, Michael Cohen is the prototypical fixer or bagman. In Mexico, as discussed in glorious detail in this NY Times expose on Wal-Mart’s massive corruption scandal in Mexico , a lawyer-fixer like Cohen would be known as a “gestore.” The bagman’s job is to get bribe money to people while insulating and giving deniability to the ultimate payor of the bribe. Having a dirty lawyer as a bagman provides a number of advantages.

    ...

    Trump is a major real estate developer in NY who has openly bragged about his ability to cut through red tape and get politicians in his pocket. We now have serious SDNY public corruption prosecutors and FBI agents in possession of a massive amount of electronic data from his bagman. They likely already have all of his financial records as well. And Rudy has now given them the roadmap for how Trump may have laundered bribes through Cohen as purported legal fees or retainer payments. Every invoice Cohen has ever issued to Trump is suspect. Every corrupt payment Cohen has ever made or facilitated to building inspectors, councilmen, pornstars, or whomever can potentially be tied back to Trump. In addition, I suspect Trump and his kids had a false sense of comfort that their communications with Cohen would be privileged. I am convinced this is why Trump and his family are freaking out about the Cohen raid and the possibility he could flip. The SDNY is sitting on the mother lode of evidence and Rudy has given them the connection between purported legal fees and payments by Cohen to third parties..."


    RUH ROH
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  20. #47580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jori McKie View Post
    I will laugh my ass off so hard if a Pornstar with the fitting name of Stormy Daniels will be the reason the Orange brought down in a fire.
    I usually don't quote myself but i'm very pleased right now. The raid on Cohen may have been a tipping point, i just hope prosecutors can and will use every bit of evidence they got.

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