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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #48081

  2. #48082
    Donor lubica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Everyone has an agenda.

    Who owns what?
    The "It's All About Capitalism, So All Sides Do It" Defense.
    The post I'm replaying to is you literally trying to make the point that both sides are doing it

    All sides do it because all sides are a product of the same material environment. American news is an entertainment media used to sell ad space targeted at a partisan population.

    It seems pretty disingenuous to dismiss everything I say just because I'm consistent
    What if you're consistently wrong?


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  3. #48083
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Everyone has an agenda.

    Who owns what?
    The "It's All About Capitalism, So All Sides Do It" Defense.
    The post I'm replaying to is you literally trying to make the point that both sides are doing it

    All sides do it because all sides are a product of the same material environment. American news is an entertainment media used to sell ad space targeted at a partisan population.

    It seems pretty disingenuous to dismiss everything I say just because I'm consistent
    What if you're consistently wrong?
    Well in his defence both sides are consistently wrong.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  4. #48084
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    We should get Quackbot to post something whenever "both sides" is posted tbh

  5. #48085
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    I miss Quackbot

  6. #48086
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    I miss Quackbot
    He still posts in the star citizen subforum

    well, he's the only poster the entire subforum

  7. #48087
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    I miss Quackbot
    He still posts in the star citizen subforum

    well, he's the only poster the entire subforum
    It's because he's the only poster. It's impossible to use.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  8. #48088
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    I miss Quackbot
    He still posts in the star citizen subforum

    well, he's the only poster the entire subforum
    It's because he's the only poster. It's impossible to use.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    so does that make it his territory?

  9. #48089
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    I miss Quackbot
    He still posts in the star citizen subforum

    well, he's the only poster the entire subforum
    It's because he's the only poster. It's impossible to use.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Star citizen or the forum?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  10. #48090
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    Quackers is all of us; we are all Quackers.

  11. #48091
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    We should get Quackbot to post something whenever "both sides" is posted tbh
    A chat filter that turns "both sides" into any of a pre-selected list of ridiculous phrases would be easier.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  12. #48092
    Smarnca's Avatar
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    Federal judge who rules against his country

    Probably a communist too

    Careful not head hit on rock!
    laughs in Slovenian

  13. #48093
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Federal judge who rules against his country

    Probably a communist too
    Or just a sign that due process is still a thing.


  14. #48094
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    We should get Quackbot to post something whenever "both sides" is posted tbh
    A chat filter that turns "both sides" into any of a pre-selected list of ridiculous phrases would be easier.
    I miss bonii

  15. #48095
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    http://thehill.com/policy/energy-env...causing-higher

    A Republican lawmaker on the House Science, Space and Technology Committee said Thursday that rocks from the White Cliffs of Dover and the California coastline, as well as silt from rivers tumbling into the ocean, are contributing to high sea levels globally.

    We have the best scientists folks, the best people on the committee let me tell ya

  16. #48096
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    ...

    I don't even

  17. #48097
    smuggo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Federal judge who rules against his country

    Probably a communist too
    >Judge Ricardo S. Martinez*

  18. #48098
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    http://thehill.com/policy/energy-env...causing-higher

    A Republican lawmaker on the House Science, Space and Technology Committee said Thursday that rocks from the White Cliffs of Dover and the California coastline, as well as silt from rivers tumbling into the ocean, are contributing to high sea levels globally.

    We have the best scientists folks, the best people on the committee let me tell ya
    I see your problem.

    Lawmaker =/= Scientist

    Being on a Science committee does not make one a scientist.

    As another example (WHATABOUT!!!) of the stupid people we tend to elect, try this one:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hank-jo...arine-buildup/

    Rep. Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) is raising some eyebrows with a comment he made about the U.S. territory of Guam during a House Armed Services Committee hearing last Thursday.

    In a discussion regarding a planned military buildup on the Pacific island, Johnson expressed some concerns about the plans to Adm. Robert Willard, head of the U.S. Pacific fleet.

    "My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize," Johnson said. Willard paused and replied, "We don't anticipate that."
    At least the idea of siltation (or things like creation and artificial expansion of land masses) has a basis in science as a factor. The fact it's rather obvious is a completely immaterial factor does make the claim seem pretty dumb.

    No dumber that capsizing Islands of course, but yeah. Lawmakers and Lawyers, get what you elect.

    I wonder if capsizing Islands might be a factor is sea level rise......


  19. #48099

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    So guys, I know FOX lies, and is dishonest, and I am dumb for reading them.

    So I wanted to ask what lies and dishonesty is FOX telling/using in this article about other media selectively quoting then misrepresenting a Trump comment on MS-13 as being anti-immigrant racism:

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment...s-animals.html

    Thanks for helping me see through Trumps and FOX's lies.


    Ill bite too, since apparently everyone is doing it.

    The "context source" they link to as evidence is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tmT7-dhOWs (is it irony that its a CBS, not Fox, link? You tell me.)

    Now, i dont have a transcript, but ill try to sum it up:

    0:00 Video starts, Trump calls up some woman who i assume to be a county sherrif.

    0:03 She starts out by pointing out conflicting states and federal laws regarding local-level immigration and cooperation with ICE.

    0:20 "When there came a legal challenge to the 48hr hold by ICE..." its fair to jump right into the topic in a topical roundtable discussion, but i as a viewer dont know what she is referring to. Who challenged what? Was it successful, is it pending? I dont know.

    0:30 "We didnt have the staffing..." okay so shes asking for money?

    The sentence continues "... to be able to help, um, figure out who they wanted to talk to, they didnt, i said 'come on in', work with our people, to keep our communities safe." What the who now? Doesnt ICE want to talk to all people held on immigration charges? Clearly, i am not educated enough on the actual legal role of ICE. The end of that rambling sentence is of course "keep our X safe", which is supposed to make it all better i guess.

    0:40 "Two weeks later [Person X] was murdered." Who? Doing what? By whom? From context im going to assume its a deputy or somesuch in county jail? Missing the relation to the previous sentence here, did he have anything to do with "the community"?

    0:50 "... and it was perfect ..." So i guess the dead guy didnt have anything to do with your procedure after all?

    0:55 "... because we didnt have to do anything ..." Honey, they are your prisoners your responsibility.

    1:00 "... and then The Initiative started happening ..." How ominous. How did "it" happen? How did those acts get passed? Are you, mayheaps, beholden to the will of the voters?

    1:20 "... and thats why we welcome Sessions' lawsuit, because that will provide us clarity, ..." If it works out that way, i completely agree. People held on immigration charges shouldnt be stuck in a legal or procedural limbo.

    1:40 "... to find the bad guys ..." First time anything is being said about guilt. Also notice how they are still guys, not critters. But "bad guys" is dog-whistle enough i guess.

    1:44 "... unless they reach a certain threshold ..." Oh, so they can after all? What is that threshold? Is it, maybe, a reasonable one?

    1:50 "... and its really put us in a very bad - Trump starts interrupting her: "Its a disgrace" - it, its a disgrace."

    1:55 Trump: "And, we [unintelligble, "we so we know that"?], and were working hard, and i think itll all come together, because people want it to come together." Typical Trump verbal diarreha.

    cont.: "Its so ridiculous, the concept that were even talking about it is so ridiculous. Well take care of it Margaret." I can see why the redcaps call him Daddy Trump.

    Now starts the critical bit, and they are talking a fair bit over each other so excuse me if i dont get this 100%.

    2:05 "Thank you [Trump: [unintelligble, "go, go away"? ] Why, why there has to be an MS13 gang member [Trump: "Its true!"] I know about, if they dont reach this certain threshold, I cannot tell ICE about him." Again with the 'certain threshold'. How do you know about him? Do you have proof? Logically, if there is proof, and gang membership is something that is to be reported to ICE, then that must pass the threshold, whatever that may be, no? Otherwise its abitrary persecution based on hearsay, i guess youre fine with that?

    2:13 Guy in the background "Yeah" Always some enablers around...

    2:15 Here starteth the statement: "We have people coming into the country or trying to come in, were stopping a lot of them. But were taking people out of the country, you wouldnt be believe how bad these people are. These arent people. These are animals. And were taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate thats never happened before. And because of the weak laws they come in fast, we get em, we release em, we get em again, we bring em out, its crazy. The dumbest laws, as i said before, the dumbest laws on immigration in the world. So were going to take care of it Margaret. [Margaret starts cutting in: [unintelligble, "Then why is.." ?]" Trump points to somewhere else, video is cutting out.

    Theres a lot to unpack here, but first off, from the direction he is looking during the video, as well as him closing out with her name, its clear Trump is addressing this directly to her. It also appears that she isnt satisified with "well take care of it", but thats besides the point. What is the point, is that he is answering her entire question, from the top, as evidenced by him starting before she throws in the MS13 tidbit. But that one really makes him go off the rails.
    Go back to 2:05: Trump: "Its true!" what is true, that there exist MS13 gang members in this world? Thanks for the insight...
    2:15 onwards:
    "We have people coming into the coutry or trying to come in, were stopping a lot of them." Well gee thanks again for the insight, i didnt know what immigrants are.

    "But were taking people out of the country, you wouldnt believe how bad these people are." You are talking directly to a sherriff, who has intimate knowledge of whos coming into her jail. I think you got that one turned around. He is referring to some indeterminate "people" here (not limited to MS13, again he is adressing her entire bit, he is expanding on his sentence from 2:05 not replacing it), but he universally labels them as bad. So here is where the mental dissonance comes in. I can assume that its circular logic, people are getting taken out of the country, that must mean they are bad, which is why they are being taken out of the coutry. Or, the bad people who are getting taken out of the country are all MS13 members, in which case holy fuck that is one massive organization.

    "These arent people. These are animals. And were taking them out of the country at a level and at a rate thats never happened before." See above, if he is talking about the same people then he is calling ALL of them animals. More crucially, he refers to a "level and rate", which should give us a hint as to who he is referring to. Because i dont think there exists or he has seen a year-over-year statistic of MS13 members getting deported. What he could be talking about (and i dont know off the cuff if its even true) is the total number of deportations, which again means that he just called ALL deported illegals animals.

    "And because of the weak laws they come in fast, we get em, we release em, we get em again, we bring em out, its crazy. The dumbest laws, as i said before, the dumbest laws on immigration in the world. So were going to take care of it Margaret." Just for completeness sake. Its word salad with a hint of truth, some illegals may get caught multiple times, but its wrapped in bullshit.


    Now, lets head on over to the offending tweets. Keep in mind that it would be impossible to pack the entire thing into tweet length, and the aim of the news stations was to concisely summarize what he said within a single tweet in order to keep people engaged. Thats on Twitter the medium being shit, not the ebil MSM.

    NBC: "But were taking people out of the country, you wouldnt be believe how bad these people are. These arent people. These are animals." President Trump says the US has the "dumbest laws on immigration in the world" during a roundtable on sanctuary cities.

    Selective quoting? Yes. Factually true? Also yes. As i have demonstrated above, either hes calling all deported illegals animals, or he is intensely stupid.

    NYT: Trump lashed out at undocumented immigrants during a White House meeting, calling those trying to reach the countrys borders "animals"

    This one is patently not just out of context, but simply untrue. He was talking about people being deported. Fake News (tm)

    CBS: "These arent people. These are animals." President Trump used the harsh rhetoric to describe some undocumented immigrants during a California "sanctuary state" roundtable.

    Note the use of "some". Fair and balanced, also true.

    CNN: "were taking people out of the country, you wouldnt be believe how bad these people are. These arent people. These are animals." During a meeting with public officials California's sanctuary policies, Trump criticized US immigration laws.

    95% true, but somewhat misleading. I think the "animals" and "dumb laws" parts should be split in two. They dont expand on who the "animals" are, but they do include the "taking people out of the country" part, which makes it somewhat clearer. I guess they just didnt know that all deported people are MS13 members and illigal immigrants, guess they need to get with the program.

    ABC: Pres Trump refers to some who cross the border illegally as "animals", not people. "You wouldnt believe how bad these people are". The president was holding a roundtable discussion with California elected officials who oppose the stats sanctuary law.

    Again, refer to the use of "some". They do however leave out the "deported" part, just say that they crossed the border illegally. This one is borderline, while still 100% true.


    Im not calling any of the US media paragons of factuality, and the NYT one was unacceptably editorialized, but as long as you accept that the president calling people "animals" is newsworthy, then this is as good as you will get in your news-entertainment landscape. As said above, the problem is Twitter more than anything else.

    I gave you the better part of an hour compiling this, so i hope that youre happy and dont reply with another "gotcha" oneliner.
    Last edited by Lilalaunebör; May 18 2018 at 04:47:56 PM.

  20. #48100
    Jack Coutu's Avatar
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    He will, then he will go into his secret Trump shrine and cast some spells on us and laugh.

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