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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #47021
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    lol. Cohens other client is Sean "THE DEEEEP STAAATE" Hannity.
    meh

  2. #47022
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Since Alistair is incapable of making his point, I took it upon myself to find an article that did it for him. Partial excerpt follows.

    https://harpers.org/archive/2018/05/exiled/

    Exiled
    Mike Pence and the evangelical fantasy of persecution
    By Meghan O’Gieblyn

    It has become something of a commonplace to say that Mike Pence belongs to another era. He is a politician whom the New York Times has called a “throwback,” a “conservative proudly out of sync with his times,” and a “dangerous anachronism,” a man whose social policies and outspoken Christian faith are so redolent of the previous century’s culture wars that he appeared to have no future until, in the words of one journalist, he was plucked “off the political garbage heap” by Donald Trump and given new life. Pence’s rise to the vice presidency was not merely a personal advancement; it marked the return of religion and ideology to American politics at a time when the titles of political analyses were proclaiming the Twilight of Social Conservatism (2015) and the End of White Christian America (2016). It revealed the furious persistence of the religious right, an entity whose final demise was for so long considered imminent that even as white evangelicals came out in droves to support the Trump-Pence ticket, their enthusiasm was dismissed, in the Washington Post, as the movement’s “last spastic breath.”

    But Pence is a curious kind of Christian politician. He is more fixated on theological arcana than on the Bible’s greatest hits (the Ten Commandments, the beatitudes). His faith is not that of Mike Huckabee, say, whose folksy Christian nationalism is reflected in the title of his book God, Guns, Grits, and Gravy; nor is it the humble self-help Methodism to which George W. Bush once deferred (at least in his early years, before his faith was hijacked by a geopolitical crusade), speaking of Jesus as the guy who had “changed my heart.” Indeed, the most peculiar thing about Pence’s Christianity is how rarely he mentions the teachings of Christ. Despite his fluency with Scripture, he seldom quotes the Gospels. He speaks fondly not just of the Good Book but also of the Old Book, by which he usually means the Hebrew Bible, and it is this earlier testament that he draws from in his speeches, often with the preface that it contains “ancient truths” that are “as true today as they were in millennia past.”

    Pence does live in the past, a past far more ancient than anyone has assumed. He speaks of the Old Testament as familiar terrain and regards its covenants as deeply relevant to evangelicals. The God of these stories is not the familiar, tranquilized Jesus of hymns and dashboard figurines but the more forbidding Yahweh who disciplines and delivers the nation of Israel. The God of Mike Pence is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, a God who sets up kings and tears them down, who raises the poor from the dust and lifts up the needy, who pulls candidates off the political garbage heap and allows them to rule with princes. He is a God who keeps his promises, and the promise, throughout the ages, has always been the same: that the Chosen People will be restored to their rightful home.

    The biblical concept of exile—a banishment followed by a return to the homeland—has lately acquired special meaning for evangelicals. The term inundated Christian discourse in the United States following the failure of Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), which Pence, then the governor, signed in 2015, soon after a judge struck down the state’s ban on same-sex marriage. The bill, which would have allowed businesspeople such as florists and caterers to refuse to serve gay clients, inspired a national boycott and culminated in a disastrous appearance on George Stephanopoulos’s This Week, in which Pence evaded question after question and stammered about open-mindedness being a two-way street. “From people who preach tolerance every day,” he said, “we have been under an avalanche of intolerance.” Pence was forced to neuter the bill, and the ordeal soon fell out of the news cycle.

    But for conservative Christians, who had long seen themselves as at war with the culture, the backlash was a wake-up call. Rod Dreher, an Eastern Orthodox writer for The American Conservative, claims this was the moment he realized that American believers were “living in a new country.” In late June 2015, the Obergefell v. Hodges decision legalized gay marriage in all fifty states, and Dreher proclaimed in Time magazine that the culture wars were officially over. Progressive views on marriage and sexuality had become consensus, and Christians would now be targeted as dissenters, their beliefs classed as hate speech. “We are going to have to learn how to live as exiles in our own country,” he wrote. Russell Moore of the Southern Baptist Convention lamented Obergefell but offered a brighter perspective, calling on Christians to “joyfully march toward Zion” as “strangers and exiles in American culture.” Soon, cries of exile (or #exile, per Twitter) could be heard all over Christendom.

    I left the faith more than a decade ago but remain connected to it, tangentially, through a large born-again family and an abiding anthro*pological curiosity, so these things tend to reach me. I knew that while exile appeared to be a fluid metaphor—a way to talk about religious liberties and political impotence—it also had a specific historic referent: the period the Jews spent in Babylonian captivity. Accounts of the exile are scattered throughout the books of the Old Testament, though the story generally begins in 587 bc, when Nebuchadnezzar’s army razed Jerusalem and burned the Temple to the ground. The Israelites were deported to Babylon, where they remained for seventy years, lamenting the ruin of Zion and praying for deliverance. In these stories, the empire is led by a series of despotic rulers—Nebuchadnezzar, Nabonidus, Belshazzar—who seem to find sadistic pleasure in forcing the Jews to renounce their God and, when they refuse, throwing them to wild animals or into the fiery furnace. When I was studying theology at Moody Bible Institute, during the Bush years, none of my fellow students were particularly drawn to these books. But Christians have often returned to them during times of persecution, and apparently they had become newly relevant for believers who saw themselves as a religious minority in a hostile pagan empire—a people who had long mistaken Washington for Jerusalem, and for whom the image of the White House lit up in a rainbow was a defeat as final as the desecration of the Temple.

    Of course, for anyone familiar with evangelical rhetoric, it is obvious that “exile” is not a white flag but a revamped strategy. The Babylonian exile, after all, was temporary. All the lamentations were ultimately about deliverance, and that deliverance came in the form of a strongman: in 539 bc, Cyrus the Great, the king of Persia, conquered Babylon and allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem.

    Once Donald Trump became a serious contender for the Republican Party’s presidential nomination in early 2016, some Christians saw him as the instrument of deliverance. This idea came primarily from the theological fringe that Trump courted: televangelists, Pentecostals, health-and-wealth hucksters. It came from men such as Lance Wallnau, an evangelical public speaker who met with Trump during his campaign and, since 2015, had been writing articles that likened the candidate to Cyrus. Throughout history, Wallnau argued, God had used pagan leaders to enact his will and protect his people. Just as Cyrus was a powerful leader anointed by Yahweh to end the exile, so Trump was “a wrecking ball to the spirit of political correctness.” Wallnau eventually published his theory in a book titled God’s Chaos Candidate (2016). Just before the election, it reached number nineteen on Amazon’s bestseller list, and others have continued to make the comparison. In March 2018, Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited the United States and joined the evangelical chorus. “The Jewish people have a long memory,” he told Trump in the Oval Office. They remember Cyrus. “Twenty-five hundred years ago, he proclaimed that the Jewish exiles in Babylon could come back and rebuild our temple in Jerusalem.”

    Plenty of Christians cautioned against this narrative—most notably Moore, in the Washington Post. He and Dreher represent a more orthodox core who remained skeptical of Trump and believed his presidency would be a continuation of pagan rule. (Dreher has condemned Christians who want to “Make Babylon Great Again.”) Alan Snyder, a Christian historian, wrote on his blog, “There’s another biblical figure who didn’t acknowledge God, yet God used him to carry out a purpose.” He was referring to Nebuchadnezzar, who is not remembered kindly in the Old Testament. In one story, he decrees the construction of a gold statue of himself and orders his subjects to bow down and worship it. In another, his counselors fail to adequately interpret a dream, and he threatens to kill off his entire court. He is suspicious of his advisers, tortured by nightmares of his own demise; eventually, he loses his mind. For Christians who were anti-Trump, the parallels were obvious, and ominous: “His purpose?” Snyder wrote of Nebuchadnezzar. “To destroy Jerusalem and take the people into captivity.”

    How did Pence fit into these narratives? Soon after the Republican National Convention that summer, a friend asked me about the likelihood of Pence solidifying the evangelical vote. (As a former believer, I am sometimes considered an authority on such things.) I remarked offhandedly that Christians regarded Pence as an intercessor, one who would temper the president’s moral excesses just as Christ intervened two thousand years ago to mollify the reckless whims of Yahweh.

    I’d forgotten that there is a more apt analogy in the Old Testament. One of the foremost heroes of the exile stories is Daniel, an Israelite who serves in Nebuchadnezzar’s palace. Daniel manages to preserve his Jewish identity, refusing the king’s food and wine and continuing to pray to his God, sometimes in secret. When Daniel correctly interprets one of the king’s dreams, he is promoted to chief counselor, a position he uses to establish protections for the Jews and secure appointments for his Hebrew friends. He also ends up serving as the king’s spiritual adviser, encouraging him to turn from idolatry and worship Yahweh, the one true god. Still, despite earning royal favor, Daniel frequently comes into conflict with the king’s temper and the paganism of Babylon. When he refuses to obey a decree that would prohibit him from praying to his God, he is thrown into the lion’s den.

    These stories have long been read by Christians as a handbook in civil disobedience. (Martin Luther King Jr. invoked the Book of Daniel in “Letter from Birmingham Jail” to defend the virtue of protesting without a permit.) But the story of Daniel also suggests that godly people can negotiate power by influencing leaders whose values differ vastly from their own. At the dawn of the Trump era, the lesson contemporary evangelicals gleaned from the story of Daniel was that God’s people can survive in exile—even under the fist of a despotic ruler—so long as one of their own tribe advocates on their behalf in the corridors of power.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  3. #47023

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    I wish I hadn't read any of this. Because it's systematic of why the Republic is probably going to fail, and sadly, soonish. I don't know which side started it and I don't care, but this current phenomenon of both sides trying to devalue the humanity of the other side, historically it's how you get blood in the streets. Both sides are flawed, because humans are flawed. This by nature means that your own side is flawed, somewhere, at some point. We are all humans and we better start remembering that real quick because telling half the country they are stupid and racist and horrible and deplorable is exactly how Hillary CAUSED Trump.

    I voted for neither of them. Trump's not stupid, but he is unprincipled and most likely not fully stable. I watched Hillary and Bill (mostly Hillary because Bill was off fucking something new every week) bankrupt my neighbor state. But I do fear what that election has done to the fabric of the republic.

    The people you disagree with are still people, still allowed to exist, still allowed to not agree with you. Please folks remember that and remember your own humanity as well.


    And now, I will be flamed by everyone probably. I really regret having read this thread.
    A critical exception has occurred. The exception is FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

  4. #47024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post

    Only right wing feelings need to be considered. They can call us "libtards" and "cucks" and that's just their little bit of banter.
    See the namecalling is kind of funny in a pathetic way. You can make memes of someone whose favorite word is libtard.

    But what really made me mad is when they decided it was okay to be condescending and shitty to mass shooting survivors.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    I wish I hadn't read any of this. Because it's systematic of why the Republic is probably going to fail, and sadly, soonish. I don't know which side started it and I don't care, but this current phenomenon of both sides trying to devalue the humanity of the other side, historically it's how you get blood in the streets. Both sides are flawed, because humans are flawed. This by nature means that your own side is flawed, somewhere, at some point. We are all humans and we better start remembering that real quick because telling half the country they are stupid and racist and horrible and deplorable is exactly how Hillary CAUSED Trump.

    I voted for neither of them. Trump's not stupid, but he is unprincipled and most likely not fully stable. I watched Hillary and Bill (mostly Hillary because Bill was off fucking something new every week) bankrupt my neighbor state. But I do fear what that election has done to the fabric of the republic.

    The people you disagree with are still people, still allowed to exist, still allowed to not agree with you. Please folks remember that and remember your own humanity as well.


    And now, I will be flamed by everyone probably. I really regret having read this thread.
    "both sides"

    Democrats are just as bad in some ways, mediocre in others, and a lot better for the common man in a few others. They can be pretty terrible depending on your local flavor of Dem, but they aren't the ones trying to drive the republic off a cliff

  5. #47025

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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post

    Only right wing feelings need to be considered. They can call us "libtards" and "cucks" and that's just their little bit of banter.
    See the namecalling is kind of funny in a pathetic way. You can make memes of someone whose favorite word is libtard.

    But what really made me mad is when they decided it was okay to be condescending and shitty to mass shooting survivors.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    I wish I hadn't read any of this. Because it's systematic of why the Republic is probably going to fail, and sadly, soonish. I don't know which side started it and I don't care, but this current phenomenon of both sides trying to devalue the humanity of the other side, historically it's how you get blood in the streets. Both sides are flawed, because humans are flawed. This by nature means that your own side is flawed, somewhere, at some point. We are all humans and we better start remembering that real quick because telling half the country they are stupid and racist and horrible and deplorable is exactly how Hillary CAUSED Trump.

    I voted for neither of them. Trump's not stupid, but he is unprincipled and most likely not fully stable. I watched Hillary and Bill (mostly Hillary because Bill was off fucking something new every week) bankrupt my neighbor state. But I do fear what that election has done to the fabric of the republic.

    The people you disagree with are still people, still allowed to exist, still allowed to not agree with you. Please folks remember that and remember your own humanity as well.


    And now, I will be flamed by everyone probably. I really regret having read this thread.
    "both sides"

    Democrats are just as bad in some ways, mediocre in others, and a lot better for the common man in a few others. They can be pretty terrible depending on your local flavor of Dem, but they aren't the ones trying to drive the republic off a cliff

    See I don't believe either side wants to do that. But they've ragefucked for so long that they literally refuse to see each other as humans.

    We can have the philosophical discussion about which ideas from which side work, because the answer is some of each, but no we can't even have that discussion anymore most of the time.
    A critical exception has occurred. The exception is FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

  6. #47026
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    It's a bit late to pretend the right thinks everyone is human

  7. #47027

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/an...-new-york-city

    If you want to know why Trump voters exist, I suggest you read this article.
    OK, the chain of logic escapes me. What does this article have to do with Trump voters?
    Seems to escape all of you.

    No worries, just bolsters the argument tbqh, that not a single one of you can read that piece and extrapolate why, perhaps, some voters don't really like Democrats (and their urban elitist base) much. And why some voters feel as they do, to the point of supporting a chucklefuck like Trump over an experienced and talented public servant like say, all the (R)'s he beat, and Ms. Clinton.

    I'd take more time to explain, but I know where these exchanges tend to go. In before the usual trio and their copyapasta posts of "it's all about racism and bigotry and FOX News lies and nothing else!!!"
    Pretty much nobody here says that, and most people here get it, so much so that we don't really need to keep discussing it all the time.

    What are you even trying to do here? More "intellectual debate" over pointless shit that's obvious to anyone with a pulse when there are more interesting topics?

  8. #47028
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/an...-new-york-city

    If you want to know why Trump voters exist, I suggest you read this article.
    OK, the chain of logic escapes me. What does this article have to do with Trump voters?
    Seems to escape all of you.

    No worries, just bolsters the argument tbqh, that not a single one of you can read that piece and extrapolate why, perhaps, some voters don't really like Democrats (and their urban elitist base) much. And why some voters feel as they do, to the point of supporting a chucklefuck like Trump over an experienced and talented public servant like say, all the (R)'s he beat, and Ms. Clinton.

    I'd take more time to explain, but I know where these exchanges tend to go. In before the usual trio and their copyapasta posts of "it's all about racism and bigotry and FOX News lies and nothing else!!!"
    it's not at all that we don't understand: we understand quite well (although I feel like you're skipping over the offended white privilege element, which is a huge factor however much you dislike recognising that). It's been obvious since 2015 that trump was the living avatar of the modern American right, and I and others have been saying so in so many words. We're not talking about it for the same reason that we're not discussing the wetness of water or the height of Mt Everest or whether a metre is longer than a yard.
    Uncharacteristically very reasonable response from Malc, return ball to Alistair!
    Reaonable? It's a long-winded way of saying exactly what I expected him to say "It's all racism and bigotry and FOX News lies!" i.e. what Malc means when Malc says "the avatar of the modern American right".

    As expected, he missed by a country mile the point, but made sure to let everyone know how much he hates "the right" too.

    The reason article like that help create Trump-type voters is rather simple, people don't like being shit on, having the things they like shit on, and having their faith shit on, by other people who view themselves as superior in every way to the people they're shitting on. We get that point rather clearly most of the time when the victim is anyone other than a white, male, Christian. It's interesting to see how hard that is for many to see when it is something that culturally is considered white, or christian in some form (as if the chicken is christian chicken, lol).

    Of course, Malcs comment on "offended white privilege" is just another way to deflect and disarm and counter argument, "white privilege" means those folks being shit on cant be offended or bothered when thy get shit on, because clearly, they deserve it for all that privilege they enjoy and the sins of their ancestors to brown people, duh! Two sets of rules are ok, see!

    I fully expect the idea to get crushed here, and that's fine. Safe to to say none of you, certainly not our many resident Euros, have much interaction with actual, real Trump voters. Nor if you did would you spent a moment of your time trying to understand them, rather than just dismissing them as alt-right literal Nazi's to the last man.

    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/an...-new-york-city

    If you want to know why Trump voters exist, I suggest you read this article.
    OK, the chain of logic escapes me. What does this article have to do with Trump voters?
    Seems to escape all of you.

    No worries, just bolsters the argument tbqh, that not a single one of you can read that piece and extrapolate why, perhaps, some voters don't really like Democrats (and their urban elitist base) much. And why some voters feel as they do, to the point of supporting a chucklefuck like Trump over an experienced and talented public servant like say, all the (R)'s he beat, and Ms. Clinton.

    I'd take more time to explain, but I know where these exchanges tend to go. In before the usual trio and their copyapasta posts of "it's all about racism and bigotry and FOX News lies and nothing else!!!"
    That goes both ways my friend.

    The nastiness of this administration and its supporters hasn't exactly been winning over the other 50-60% of the country.
    Quite right. Unquestionably right, tbqh. And that should be unacceptable. Trump himself is the personification of this style of nastyness.

    With that said, this kind of response post would be universally decried here as "Whataboutism!" if I were to have written it.

    Does Trumpism, a very recent phenomena, justify the tone and loathing within the article? The clear hatred of what average folks clearly love? The blatant religious bigotry?

    Maybe it does, that's up to each to decide.


  9. #47029

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    Please stop playing the victim at every point thinking it makes your arguments stronger, please.

  10. #47030

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    ost:
    The problem is the Christians keep trying to turn America into a Christian theocracy. If they spent more time worrying about themselves and less time worrying about what two men do in the bedroom, they'd catch a lot less grief. It's not persecution when people are telling you that you're not allowed to persecute others.

    Now bad@botes

  11. #47031
    Frug's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/an...-new-york-city

    If you want to know why Trump voters exist, I suggest you read this article.
    OK, the chain of logic escapes me. What does this article have to do with Trump voters?
    Seems to escape all of you.

    No worries, just bolsters the argument tbqh, that not a single one of you can read that piece and extrapolate why, perhaps, some voters don't really like Democrats (and their urban elitist base) much. And why some voters feel as they do, to the point of supporting a chucklefuck like Trump over an experienced and talented public servant like say, all the (R)'s he beat, and Ms. Clinton.

    I'd take more time to explain, but I know where these exchanges tend to go. In before the usual trio and their copyapasta posts of "it's all about racism and bigotry and FOX News lies and nothing else!!!"
    This is what I get for taking you off ignore.

    I asked, and I've made it abundantly clear I'm not a leftist nor do I think it's all "racism and bigotry." Put your argument on the table you douche.

    edit: oh, you did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  12. #47032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    The reason article like that help create Trump-type voters is rather simple, people don't like being shit on, having the things they like shit on, and having their faith shit on, by other people who view themselves as superior in every way to the people they're shitting on. We get that point rather clearly most of the time when the victim is anyone other than a white, male, Christian. It's interesting to see how hard that is for many to see when it is something that culturally is considered white, or christian in some form (as if the chicken is christian chicken, lol).
    The reason your logical leap isn't clear is because the article is so barely tangentially related I didn't pick up on what you're actually driving at. I'd agree roughly with your point if you weren't using Chick-Fil-A as an example and this article, which is talking about the success of that franchise in a place that sure ain't the deep south. As in, people appear to be fine with it except an obviously left slanted editorial, which is completely predictable and understandable. Shit, that article's tame by today's standards.

    Chick-Fil-A (omg typing that's a fucking pain) chose to wade into politics and to put their business up front with their views, it's unreasonable to expect anything other than a negative response from people who don't share those views. If you don't want your business to get involved, don't use it as a pulpit. This has gotta be the worst example of why there's pushback against the mainstream narrative you could come up with.

    I remember something about Oreo cookies supporting pride, followed by a (predictable) backlash from the right of people on facebook writing rants at them about how they'll never buy those cookies again! Fuck you, rainbow cookies! You're with the gays! Yeah that didn't work. Hell I still like Oreos more because of it (and they're vegan).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I fully expect the idea to get crushed here, and that's fine. Safe to to say none of you, certainly not our many resident Euros, have much interaction with actual, real Trump voters.
    What am I, chopped liver? I just think your example was really vague and needed explanation. Calm down.

    Also they asked for it, and they're doing just fine.
    Last edited by Frug; April 17 2018 at 04:41:31 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  13. #47033
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/an...-new-york-city

    If you want to know why Trump voters exist, I suggest you read this article.
    OK, the chain of logic escapes me. What does this article have to do with Trump voters?
    Seems to escape all of you.

    No worries, just bolsters the argument tbqh, that not a single one of you can read that piece and extrapolate why, perhaps, some voters don't really like Democrats (and their urban elitist base) much. And why some voters feel as they do, to the point of supporting a chucklefuck like Trump over an experienced and talented public servant like say, all the (R)'s he beat, and Ms. Clinton.

    I'd take more time to explain, but I know where these exchanges tend to go. In before the usual trio and their copyapasta posts of "it's all about racism and bigotry and FOX News lies and nothing else!!!"
    it's not at all that we don't understand: we understand quite well (although I feel like you're skipping over the offended white privilege element, which is a huge factor however much you dislike recognising that). It's been obvious since 2015 that trump was the living avatar of the modern American right, and I and others have been saying so in so many words. We're not talking about it for the same reason that we're not discussing the wetness of water or the height of Mt Everest or whether a metre is longer than a yard.
    This, TBFH.

    But that doesn't work for alistair. Because this isn't about 'some voters' not really liking Democrats (which no one here challenges). This is about alistair really not liking Democrats and/or Hillary Clinton. And in alistairland, hyper partisan as it is, that means that surely they, and/or she, are to be blamed for everything. Or at the very least, have to share the blame for everything. A message that he's apparently perfectly willing to repeat ad nauseam, and in infinite varieties. Even if/when it make no bloody sense at all, which it almost invariably does.

    So no: Trump, Trump voters, and Trumpism in general doesn't exists because of the Democrats, or 'progressive America'. It is almost exclusively a creation of the (modern) American right. Which is why it is so obvious, to everyone else apparently, that Trump is the living embodiment of that same modern American right, e.g., the GOP. It is the American right that nursed the resentment, fanned the outrage, encouraged the hatred, engaged in that type of dogwistle politics; and subsequently birthed this abomination. And the major difference is just that Trump is now saying, and doing, out in the open; what the American right, and the GOP, have been saying, and doing behind closed doors.

    Trump voters don't stick to Trump because they hate the 'urban elitists'. That's just another scapegoat in their manufactured pantheon of hate. They vote for, and stick with Trump because he's just like them. He speaks out loud about the same resentments, outrage, and hatred that the American right has been embedding in their hearts and minds - just as in Trumps! - for decades now. And they'll only let go when it'll finally dawn on them that they've been had. Which is to say, for some/most (including Trump): never.

    Let's face it, the modern American right, and the GOP, is a malignant cancer on the US body politic. Unless addressed this parasite will kill the host, and the country with it. They've surely done enough damage to it already. In that context, it doesn't matter that the Democrats are like the common cold (which they are). And it certainly doesn't make any sense to try to present the common cold as a cancer, just in order to make the latter look better. Unless you're the cancer, and that's the best you can hope for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  14. #47034
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    The Democrats have done just as much to develop America into such willing recipients of a Trump government.

    A Trump POTUS was going to come along eventually, purely because the American political elite on both sides were cultivating the economic environment for him to flourish.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #47035
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    The Democrats have done just as much to develop America into such willing recipients of a Trump government.

    A Trump POTUS was going to come along eventually, purely because the American political elite on both sides were cultivating the economic environment for him to flourish.
    1/10
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  16. #47036
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Am i the only person who thinks Trump was the culmination of the internet's huge effect on the changing style of public discourse in western society? We are all anonymous. We can all interject into any conversation and be viewed publicly. We dont ge tthe social cues that a face to face chat would give, and things like tone and intent are obfuscated. We argue to extremes and for the sake of playing devils advocate, and half in jest. Nobody can be really sure of honesty or integrity of anybody elses argument. Traditional media takes those themes as serious and runs with it, as they do. Drama sells. Suddenly Trump, the proto Troll is the world's most powerful man.

    Is it all the result of a large bunch of White privileged American males taking the piss and trolling on the internet to support a baffoon? People dont actually do the whole "murica Fuck Yeah!" thing seriously, surely. R-The donald is gonna be, for its members one of those things they tell their grandkids right? "We trolled the whole world into doing something retarded because we all got a new form of mass group-autism from the internet. It was our 'Nam "

  17. #47037
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    People dont actually do the whole "murica Fuck Yeah!" thing seriously, surely.
    Sorry to break this to you ducky, but yes, yes, there are people this actually-retarded.
    meh

  18. #47038
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Am i the only person who thinks Trump was the culmination of the internet's huge effect on the changing style of public discourse in western society? We are all anonymous. We can all interject into any conversation and be viewed publicly. We dont ge tthe social cues that a face to face chat would give, and things like tone and intent are obfuscated. We argue to extremes and for the sake of playing devils advocate, and half in jest. Nobody can be really sure of honesty or integrity of anybody elses argument. Traditional media takes those themes as serious and runs with it, as they do. Drama sells. Suddenly Trump, the proto Troll is the world's most powerful man.

    Is it all the result of a large bunch of White privileged American males taking the piss and trolling on the internet to support a baffoon? People dont actually do the whole "murica Fuck Yeah!" thing seriously, surely. R-The donald is gonna be, for its members one of those things they tell their grandkids right? "We trolled the whole world into doing something retarded because we all got a new form of mass group-autism from the internet. It was our 'Nam "
    There's a big crossover between the 2 factors.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  19. #47039
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    Am i the only person who thinks Trump was the culmination of the internet's huge effect on the changing style of public discourse in western society? We are all anonymous. We can all interject into any conversation and be viewed publicly. We dont ge tthe social cues that a face to face chat would give, and things like tone and intent are obfuscated. We argue to extremes and for the sake of playing devils advocate, and half in jest. Nobody can be really sure of honesty or integrity of anybody elses argument. Traditional media takes those themes as serious and runs with it, as they do. Drama sells. Suddenly Trump, the proto Troll is the world's most powerful man.

    Is it all the result of a large bunch of White privileged American males taking the piss and trolling on the internet to support a baffoon? People dont actually do the whole "murica Fuck Yeah!" thing seriously, surely. R-The donald is gonna be, for its members one of those things they tell their grandkids right? "We trolled the whole world into doing something retarded because we all got a new form of mass group-autism from the internet. It was our 'Nam "
    There's a big crossover between the 2 factors.
    I mean the same lizard people who want to actually run nations saw the power of 4chans weaponized autism and infiltrated and coopted their methods and community to promote their ends and set the agenda for the mainstream media to follow. Russia got in early and its obviously a highly effective and cheap way to influence the retards

  20. #47040

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    People dont actually do the whole "murica Fuck Yeah!" thing seriously, surely.
    Very seriously, and they will often take offence if you don't wholeheartedly join in.

    R-The donald is gonna be, for its members one of those things they tell their grandkids right? "We trolled the whole world into doing something retarded because we all got a new form of mass group-autism from the internet. It was our 'Nam "
    It starts like that, then a load of people join in who don't get that it's a joke and then no one stops it and then before you know it you've got a literal gang of fascists running about thinking it's ok to behave like that.

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