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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #45761
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...mpression=true

    lol, Stormy Daniels is suing trump to void the NDA
    Actually an '06.

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  2. #45762
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    >Stormy Daniels, whose legal name is Stephanie Clifford
    still sounds like a porn pseudonym

  3. #45763
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    I think im now 100% confused as to what the fuck is going on in this investigation. I guess that means all the twists and turns have worked on me... That was the idea right? Confuse people enough so they don't care anymore..

    I'm also guessing this tactic isn't going to work on an organization who's job it is to defend America against this type of shit though. Someone will to down. The case is being made.
    TLDR Version:

    1. Muller has unlimited scope to investigate.
    2. He seems to think Trump and most of his higher level staff were on the payroll of and actively colluding with foreign Governments.
    3. He's shown that at least Paul Manafort (and his bro Rick Gates) were acting as Foreign Agents, didn't disclose it, and didn't report their earnings (tax violation).
    4. He's bringing in everyone he can, making them testify on every possible meeting, conversation and document over a looooong period of time, so he can nail them for lying and use them via plea deal to against higher folks. i.e. Papadopolous, Gates, Flynn, van der Zwaan.
    5. He appears to now be after Roger Stone rather hard, and Stone's shadowy relationship with Wikileaks (i.e. the Russians, supposedly), and is using drunk depressed guy Nunberg (A Stone friend/ally/confidant) to get to him.

    So not too confusing really.

    At some point, someone is going to try and save their own ass, and to do it they'll say Trump knew all along, and this thing will reach a head with a prosecution of President Trump, if not by Muller, then by Congress after Muller reports his evidence.

    But we're likely a loooooong way away from that date as yet, a goodly number fo underlings still need to get caught and flipped.
    I thought that the bigger case on Trump isn't the collusion as such, but more so the obstruction of justice in the investigation of said collusion? If they'd gone along with things better we might have the current situation.

    Unless there is real dirt to be dig out, in which case lol.
    If there was nothing to cover up i.e. no collusion, they're be nothing to obstruct over.

    If I were a Democrat, I would certainly hope this isn't/wasn't a fishing-for-perjury-and-obstruction case, and that there is/was actual collusion/illegal actions that warranted the initial investigation.

    The worst outcome for the American left is a couple of "Lied to FBI" guilty plea cases and a bagful of nothing on the core Trump Campaign/Administration people in terms of collusion/payola/influence peddling/lawbreaking in relation to the Russians and the election.

    As I said, I think in time there will be some legit prosecutions that come out of this, not the petty shit so far (Flynn, for example). Manafort-level accusation and then some. Hard to see Manafort not doing some serious time if he is all that comes out of this and he doesn't turn state witness. It's like musical chairs, never be the last one without a seat (i.e. plea deal)
    Given that trump proudly claimed he is fighting back against the investigation on live TV, Mullers team doesn't even have to to prove intent (normally the hardest part of obstruction charges). Thanks to Trump already admitting to intent, any and all actions he has taken that impact negatively on the investigation are now obstruction. No fishing is required, they could push an obstruction charge right now if they wanted to.

    They are clearly holding off for something more than that.
    A public claim of "fighting back", i.e. defending oneself and their administration from (thus far unproven) accusations, is not valid as evidence of intent to collude or intent to obstruct. If claims of innocence = obstruction, everyone innocent person would be guilty.

    Constitutionally speaking, no one here is all that sure a sitting President CAN be changed with obstruction as yet. Certainly pundits and scholars have been debating that very question, with predictable outcomes.

    The Special Council will (IMO) have to find something materially and substantially more than obstruction in order to unseat the sitting President.

    But, we'll see. As Trump getting elected proves, you just never know. And ss said, long way still to go, sadly. This is not good for our country, but seems we're stuck with it for the duration.


  4. #45764
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortior View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    I think im now 100% confused as to what the fuck is going on in this investigation. I guess that means all the twists and turns have worked on me... That was the idea right? Confuse people enough so they don't care anymore..

    I'm also guessing this tactic isn't going to work on an organization who's job it is to defend America against this type of shit though. Someone will to down. The case is being made.
    TLDR Version:

    1. Muller has unlimited scope to investigate.
    2. He seems to think Trump and most of his higher level staff were on the payroll of and actively colluding with foreign Governments.
    3. He's shown that at least Paul Manafort (and his bro Rick Gates) were acting as Foreign Agents, didn't disclose it, and didn't report their earnings (tax violation).
    4. He's bringing in everyone he can, making them testify on every possible meeting, conversation and document over a looooong period of time, so he can nail them for lying and use them via plea deal to against higher folks. i.e. Papadopolous, Gates, Flynn, van der Zwaan.
    5. He appears to now be after Roger Stone rather hard, and Stone's shadowy relationship with Wikileaks (i.e. the Russians, supposedly), and is using drunk depressed guy Nunberg (A Stone friend/ally/confidant) to get to him.

    So not too confusing really.

    At some point, someone is going to try and save their own ass, and to do it they'll say Trump knew all along, and this thing will reach a head with a prosecution of President Trump, if not by Muller, then by Congress after Muller reports his evidence.

    But we're likely a loooooong way away from that date as yet, a goodly number fo underlings still need to get caught and flipped.
    I thought that the bigger case on Trump isn't the collusion as such, but more so the obstruction of justice in the investigation of said collusion? If they'd gone along with things better we might have the current situation.

    Unless there is real dirt to be dig out, in which case lol.
    If there was nothing to cover up i.e. no collusion, they're be nothing to obstruct over.

    If I were a Democrat, I would certainly hope this isn't/wasn't a fishing-for-perjury-and-obstruction case, and that there is/was actual collusion/illegal actions that warranted the initial investigation.

    The worst outcome for the American left is a couple of "Lied to FBI" guilty plea cases and a bagful of nothing on the core Trump Campaign/Administration people in terms of collusion/payola/influence peddling/lawbreaking in relation to the Russians and the election.

    As I said, I think in time there will be some legit prosecutions that come out of this, not the petty shit so far (Flynn, for example). Manafort-level accusation and then some. Hard to see Manafort not doing some serious time if he is all that comes out of this and he doesn't turn state witness. It's like musical chairs, never be the last one without a seat (i.e. plea deal)
    Given that trump proudly claimed he is fighting back against the investigation on live TV, Mullers team doesn't even have to to prove intent (normally the hardest part of obstruction charges). Thanks to Trump already admitting to intent, any and all actions he has taken that impact negatively on the investigation are now obstruction. No fishing is required, they could push an obstruction charge right now if they wanted to.

    They are clearly holding off for something more than that.
    A public claim of "fighting back", i.e. defending oneself and their administration from (thus far unproven) accusations, is not valid as evidence of intent to collude or intent to obstruct. If claims of innocence = obstruction, everyone innocent person would be guilty.

    Constitutionally speaking, no one here is all that sure a sitting President CAN be changed with obstruction as yet. Certainly pundits and scholars have been debating that very question, with predictable outcomes.

    The Special Council will (IMO) have to find something materially and substantially more than obstruction in order to unseat the sitting President.

    But, we'll see. As Trump getting elected proves, you just never know. And ss said, long way still to go, sadly. This is not good for our country, but seems we're stuck with it for the duration.
    All previous (attempted, if pre-empted) impeachments of US presidents were about obstruction of justice.

    I agree, however, that claiming, publicly, to defend oneself against accusations is not enough to imply intent, and that substantially more evidence would have to be presented to start impeachment procedures.

    But that is mainly because Meuller isn't just up against Trump. He's also up against a Republican house, senate, and SCOTUS. And that makes the burden that much harder.

    I think he'll get there in the end though, because Trump, and his coterie, are, actually, dumb enough to have actually colluded with Russia/Putin in order to win the election. In fact, I think Meuller has evidence to that effect, he just needs to substantiate it; because of the above ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  5. #45765
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Firing the head of the FBI and then publically stating it was about the Russia investigation might qualify though.

  6. #45766
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Firing the head of the FBI and then publically stating it was about the Russia investigation might qualify though.
    Maybe after the midterms, but currently: not nearly enough ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  7. #45767
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Taibbi on point

    also, i like how the gradually escalating teacher strike starting in West Virginia is apparently getting incredibly tepid coverage, you'd imagine that people striking for better working conditions and so forth would provoke a frothing rage from american media.
    Taibbi is obviously a Russian plant. It's the only possible explanation. What kind of a name is "Taibbi" anyway?

  8. #45768
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    subjugation of Abkhazia
    Bitch please abkhazians love russia
      Spoiler:
    for helping them out with the georgians they hate
    .

  9. #45769
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Taibbi on point

    also, i like how the gradually escalating teacher strike starting in West Virginia is apparently getting incredibly tepid coverage, you'd imagine that people striking for better working conditions and so forth would provoke a frothing rage from american media.
    That's actually precisely why it does not have large media coverage. The nation is a tinderbox waiting to be lit when it comes to the economic suffering imposed on the population. The media chiefs think that by denying the strikers (or others protesting economic injustice) a spotlight and misdirecting the public with trivialities in the headlines, that their message won't spread far. And they're probably right, since the US media is a global master of propaganda.
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; March 7 2018 at 06:27:42 AM.

  10. #45770
    Liare's Avatar
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    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  11. #45771
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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  12. #45772
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Taibbi on point

    also, i like how the gradually escalating teacher strike starting in West Virginia is apparently getting incredibly tepid coverage, you'd imagine that people striking for better working conditions and so forth would provoke a frothing rage from american media.
    That's actually precisely why it does not have large media coverage. The nation is a tinderbox waiting to be lit when it comes to the economic suffering imposed on the population. The media chiefs think that by denying the strikers (or others protesting economic injustice) a spotlight and misdirecting the public with trivialities in the headlines, that their message won't spread far. And they're probably right, since the US media is a global master of propaganda.

  13. #45773
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    How many series could HBO get out of this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  14. #45774
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    How many series could HBO get out of this?
    See this is why I cant follow.. The fact is changing too fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  15. #45775
    Duckslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    this is just a tribute....


  16. #45776

  17. #45777
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    EU has prepared list of products for retaliatory tariffs, calculated for maximum political impact. List includes Harley-Davidson to hurt Paul Ryan, bourbon whiskey to hurt Mitch McConnell, and Levi-Strauss to hurt Nancy Pelosi.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...r_retaliatory/

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...taliation-plan

    The EU is certainly taking the tariffs very seriously and prepared a very targeted response. Each product hits a different state and different politician of importance across the aisle.

    Can Trump impose tariffs through executive orders? I doubt it but you never know.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  18. #45778
    theBlind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    EU has prepared list of products for retaliatory tariffs, calculated for maximum political impact. List includes Harley-Davidson to hurt Paul Ryan, bourbon whiskey to hurt Mitch McConnell, and Levi-Strauss to hurt Nancy Pelosi.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/c...r_retaliatory/

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...taliation-plan

    The EU is certainly taking the tariffs very seriously and prepared a very targeted response. Each product hits a different state and different politician of importance across the aisle.

    Can Trump impose tariffs through executive orders? I doubt it but you never know.

    Tapapapatalk
    Yes-ish. He can impose tariffs if doing so is in the interest of national security. That's why this is about steel and aluminum, muh tanks n guns and such. If this would hold up its another question, but possibly not the important one. If the EU reacts, this has a chance of getting its own momentum, of becoming an us vs. Them situation, US politicians closing ranks, nobody challenging this internally with enough force, maybe re-reactions and voila, runaway trade war. It doesn't have to be this way obviously, but the mere prospect is frightening.
    Tanks: theBlind[URBAD] (in my heart there will always be a place for [FAIL])
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  19. #45779

  20. #45780
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Generic question: If Country A provides direct subsidization aid to an industry or levies tariffs against foreign competing industry, can/should Country B impose equal tariffs to equalize the market or no?

    If not, why not?


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