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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #45481
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  2. #45482
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    You've got to hand it to the NRA though. They have apparently convinced Trump that handing a gun to one in five teachers is a good idea (probably a number grasped from thin air).

    How many guns is that? Hundreds of thousands? Including guns for the instructors? All when gun sales were down, with Remington filing for bankruptcy. Under Obama, the gun nuts were running to the shop every month or so. Scare shitless that their hobby would be 'infringed upon'. Under Trump: not so much.

    And all that why the GOP was planning to cut the education budget for, what? $5Bn? Defunding programmes to deal with mental illness among students left right and centre. I'd say double standards where it not for the fact that the GOP doesn't have any standards to double in the first place.

    Anyway, it is a characteristically dumb idea from Trump that won't go anywhere. Like all of Trump's dumb ideas. He's becoming more and more irrelevant to the process. Which would be a good thing, were it not for the fact that GOP is even worse, and far less accountable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  3. #45483
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    Can the teachers trade their guns for school supplies?

    Is this too easy to satirise now?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  4. #45484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Can the teachers trade their guns for school supplies?

    Is this too easy to satirise now?
    I'm sure there will be enterprising young people willing to buy them.
    Tanks: theBlind[URBAD] (in my heart there will always be a place for [FAIL])
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  5. #45485
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theBlind View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Can the teachers trade their guns for school supplies?

    Is this too easy to satirise now?
    I'm sure there will be enterprising young people willing to buy them.
    In the absence of proper background checks: what's to stop them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  6. #45486
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    If they can't get funding for all the guns, perhaps they can make a mandatory Bring your own device program.
      Spoiler:
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    But islamism IS a product of class warfare. Rich white countries come into developing brown dictatorships, wreck the leadership, infrastructure and economy and then act all surprised that religious fanaticism is on the rise.
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    walrus isnt a bad poster.
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  7. #45487
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    America: Where the current regime thinks building guns is more important than building kids. Where they complain about government overreach, but have no problem distributing pre-assembled food boxes for poor people (undoubtedly sourced from companies with ties to the administration).
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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    WTF I hate white people now...

  8. #45488
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    America: Where the current regime thinks building guns is more important than building kids. Where they complain about government overreach, but have no problem distributing pre-assembled food boxes for poor people (undoubtedly sourced from companies with ties to the administration).
    What can you say but: the empire is falling ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  9. #45489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    America: Where the current regime thinks building guns is more important than building kids. Where they complain about government overreach, but have no problem distributing pre-assembled food boxes for poor people (undoubtedly sourced from companies with ties to the administration).
    What can you say but: the empire is falling ...
    Slow fall from hegemony, pretty fast fall from grace.

  10. #45490
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Well, at this point, all you can hope for really is more Republican kids get killed than Democrat kids so there is a generational correction over time.
    meh

  11. #45491
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, at this point, all you can hope for really is more Republican kids get killed than Democrat kids so there is a generational correction over time.
    Nah. The GOP is now so far gone, not even that will matter. They're now so desperate to cling to whatever power they have left, not even having their kids get killed in larger numbers will lead them to abandon the NRA.

    Anyway, demographics are such that that won't be necessary anyway. Gerrymandering will only get them so far. Those who vote for the GOP (the religilous, rich old white men, bigots, paedophiles): they'll be in a minority soon enough. No need for a cull ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  12. #45492
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, at this point, all you can hope for really is more Republican kids get killed than Democrat kids so there is a generational correction over time.
    Nah. The GOP is now so far gone, not even that will matter. They're now so desperate to cling to whatever power they have left, not even having their kids get killed in larger numbers will lead them to abandon the NRA.

    Anyway, demographics are such that that won't be necessary anyway. Gerrymandering will only get them so far. Those who vote for the GOP (the religilous, rich old white men, bigots, paedophiles): they'll be in a minority soon enough. No need for a cull ...
    Other than the obvious removing the crazy and sick...
    meh

  13. #45493
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Well, at this point, all you can hope for really is more Republican kids get killed than Democrat kids so there is a generational correction over time.
    Nah. The GOP is now so far gone, not even that will matter. They're now so desperate to cling to whatever power they have left, not even having their kids get killed in larger numbers will lead them to abandon the NRA.

    Anyway, demographics are such that that won't be necessary anyway. Gerrymandering will only get them so far. Those who vote for the GOP (the religilous, rich old white men, bigots, paedophiles): they'll be in a minority soon enough. No need for a cull ...
    Other than the obvious removing the crazy and sick...
    It's less work to start at the top?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  14. #45494
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    Arming teachers is a very poor, poorly thought out idea.

    Providing additional armed Police Officer security to schools is, IMO, a better idea.

    A school, where our most valuable social asset spends 8 hours a day, should not have less security than a bank, an airport, or a congressman's office. One rent-a-security-dude per school isn't enough.

    I would suggest that the modern American school system has a number of superfluous "administrative" positions that could be eliminated, and that budget used to hire additional police-officers (not security guards, but fully and specially trained police officers with police power and a focus in conflict resolution) who will work for both the local police department and the school board, in order to provide a more secure school environment.

    I would also enhance access limitations to school campuses. If Random office X can limit access to only employees, schools should be able to limit access to only permitted individuals. A badge access system would likely work just fine, at a somewhat minimal cost.

    But cost will rise, and taxpayers should accept that rise without complaint.


  15. #45495
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Arming teachers is a very poor, poorly thought out idea.

    Providing additional armed Police Officer security to schools is, IMO, a better idea.

    A school, where our most valuable social asset spends 8 hours a day, should not have less security than a bank, an airport, or a congressman's office. One rent-a-security-dude per school isn't enough.

    I would suggest that the modern American school system has a number of superfluous "administrative" positions that could be eliminated, and that budget used to hire additional police-officers (not security guards, but fully and specially trained police officers with police power and a focus in conflict resolution) who will work for both the local police department and the school board, in order to provide a more secure school environment.

    I would also enhance access limitations to school campuses. If Random office X can limit access to only employees, schools should be able to limit access to only permitted individuals. A badge access system would likely work just fine, at a somewhat minimal cost.

    But cost will rise, and taxpayers should accept that rise without complaint.
    Honestly mate. When I went to school we had metal detectors and the army guarding it, because terrorism. If you honestly think it’s an acceptable solution for society in general, I feel very sorry for you, and everyone that decided to have kids in this shithole.
    meh

  16. #45496
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Arming teachers is a very poor, poorly thought out idea.

    Providing additional armed Police Officer security to schools is, IMO, a better idea.

    A school, where our most valuable social asset spends 8 hours a day, should not have less security than a bank, an airport, or a congressman's office. One rent-a-security-dude per school isn't enough.

    I would suggest that the modern American school system has a number of superfluous "administrative" positions that could be eliminated, and that budget used to hire additional police-officers (not security guards, but fully and specially trained police officers with police power and a focus in conflict resolution) who will work for both the local police department and the school board, in order to provide a more secure school environment.

    I would also enhance access limitations to school campuses. If Random office X can limit access to only employees, schools should be able to limit access to only permitted individuals. A badge access system would likely work just fine, at a somewhat minimal cost.

    But cost will rise, and taxpayers should accept that rise without complaint.
    Honestly mate. When I went to school we had metal detectors and the army guarding it, because terrorism. If you honestly think it’s an acceptable solution for society in general, I feel very sorry for you, and everyone that decided to have kids in this shithole.
    Your objection is noted.


  17. #45497
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Arming teachers is a very poor, poorly thought out idea.
    Agreed. How long will it take before a teacher shoots a student or peer, or gets jumped by a group of students?
    Providing additional armed Police Officer security to schools is, IMO, a better idea.

    A school, where our most valuable social asset spends 8 hours a day, should not have less security than a bank, an airport, or a congressman's office. One rent-a-security-dude per school isn't enough.
    Who's going to pay for it? Is it going to be mandated? And what if the local community says "we don't want more guns in our schools, we are not complying with your unfunded mandate to hire more security"?
    I would suggest that the modern American school system has a number of superfluous "administrative" positions that could be eliminated, and that budget used to hire additional police-officers (not security guards, but fully and specially trained police officers with police power and a focus in conflict resolution) who will work for both the local police department and the school board, in order to provide a more secure school environment.
    More nebulous "Surely, we can cut out some of the cruft. Surely." bullshit.
    I would also enhance access limitations to school campuses. If Random office X can limit access to only employees, schools should be able to limit access to only permitted individuals. A badge access system would likely work just fine, at a somewhat minimal cost.
    Already in the process. However, a shooter can simply assault/kill an employee walking in/out and take their badge.
    But cost will rise, and taxpayers should accept that rise without complaint.
    No.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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  18. #45498
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Arming teachers is a very poor, poorly thought out idea.
    Agreed. How long will it take before a teacher shoots a student or peer, or gets jumped by a group of students?
    Yup. Just not a good idea.

    Providing additional armed Police Officer security to schools is, IMO, a better idea.

    A school, where our most valuable social asset spends 8 hours a day, should not have less security than a bank, an airport, or a congressman's office. One rent-a-security-dude per school isn't enough.
    Who's going to pay for it? Is it going to be mandated? And what if the local community says "we don't want more guns in our schools, we are not complying with your unfunded mandate to hire more security"?
    The taxpayer will have to pay for it as with all local school costs.

    I have no position of if it should be mandated or not, that's a different issue (Federal power vs. State power). The current system is the power is held locally, but the Feds are growing in authority to mandate to local jurisdictions.

    If a local jurisdiction pulls a "Sanctuary City" on the policy, so be it. That's why we have local elections.

    I would suggest that the modern American school system has a number of superfluous "administrative" positions that could be eliminated, and that budget used to hire additional police-officers (not security guards, but fully and specially trained police officers with police power and a focus in conflict resolution) who will work for both the local police department and the school board, in order to provide a more secure school environment.
    More nebulous "Surely, we can cut out some of the cruft. Surely." bullshit.
    I don't know what "cruft" means, but every teacher I know, and every criticism of schools today I've read, touches on the waste of administration positions. It's a position where I tend to agree with teachers.

    I would also enhance access limitations to school campuses. If Random office X can limit access to only employees, schools should be able to limit access to only permitted individuals. A badge access system would likely work just fine, at a somewhat minimal cost.
    Already in the process. However, a shooter can simply assault/kill an employee walking in/out and take their badge.
    That's a risk yes. Of course, the same can be said for any form of security, and I don't think it;s a valid reason to not have security at places that should be secured.

    Most mass shooters are risk-avoiding until they're cornered and either suicide or suicide-by-cop. The presence of armed, trained officers is a deterrent, it's not a definitive solution.

    But cost will rise, and taxpayers should accept that rise without complaint.
    No.
    Your objection is noted.

    Since guns will never be totally illegal in the United States, and the mentally ill, ostracized and others will continue to plan violence against innocents, I look forward to your superior, real-world-possible, solution.
    Last edited by Alistair; February 23 2018 at 02:20:48 PM.


  19. #45499
    Movember 2012 Zekk Pacus's Avatar
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    There was an armed officer on site in Florida.

    How did that work out?
    'I'm pro life. I'm a non-smoker. I'm a pro-life non-smoker. WOO, Let the party begin!'

  20. #45500

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Since guns will never be totally illegal in the United States, and the mentally ill, ostracized and others will continue to plan violence against innocents, I look forward to your superior, real-world-possible, solution.
    Funnily enough other countries manage to do without regular mass shootings without guns being totally illegal.

    In the American context, it could require little more than revisiting the interpretation of the 2nd amendment as an individual right rather than a collective right.

    Interpreted as a collective right of States themselves to maintain a militia that protects them against federal tyranny would not only allow the 2nd Amendment to better provide for its intended role, but would also free up your legal system to tackle individual gun ownership in the same way as every other modern country.

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