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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #45261
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    Youd think regular school shootings would be enough to do that, but apparently not
    Why? Because of some pics on the news from Hellicopters a couple thousand yards away, and a few still shots of crying parents?

    In today's day and age? In America?

    No. Americans need to see the effects of gun violence up close and personal, in stunning 4K in all it's horror and tragedy.

    Maybe, stress maybe, they'd get it then. But the censorship of this is, IMO, part of the problem.


  2. #45262
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    Youd think regular school shootings would be enough to do that, but apparently not
    Why? Because of some pics on the news from Hellicopters a couple thousand yards away, and a few still shots of crying parents?

    In today's day and age? In America?

    No. Americans need to see the effects of gun violence up close and personal, in stunning 4K in all it's horror and tragedy.

    Maybe, stress maybe, they'd get it then. But the censorship of this is, IMO, part of the problem.
    The CDC canít even study gun violence statistically. This is part of the state capture the NRA has been successful in executing on behalf of the weapons industry.

  3. #45263
    thebomby's Avatar
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    Alistair actually has a bit of a point. There is no end to the number of americans who manage to conjure conspiracy theories when they fear their paranoias being tested. I remember reading about the parents of one of the Sandy Hook kids being bombarded with hate mail and yes, even death threats claiming that it was all a lie to take away "muh guns". That said, no one is going to show graphic images of murdered children for very obvious reasons. In other words, I don't think anything is going to change, even with escalating numbers of mass shootings. I think Americans will just have to live with the demon of their unshakable inability to see their constitution as anything but a holy and sacred text.
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  4. #45264
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Still not entirely sure why yanks jerk off over a 200 year old piece of paper that has almost no relevance in the modern world.
    Tbh still sort of better than UK's total lack of a proper written constitution that doesn't consist of century or millenia old precedence.

    I understand that not every country can have a constitution that gets updated a lot and is at most from the 1950s (technically ours is from 1990 when a committee of politicians, political science experts, lawyers etc checked it following the reunification).

    Tapapapatalk
    I'd still say the British state is more functional than the American state.

  5. #45265
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Still not entirely sure why yanks jerk off over a 200 year old piece of paper that has almost no relevance in the modern world.
    Tbh still sort of better than UK's total lack of a proper written constitution that doesn't consist of century or millenia old precedence.

    I understand that not every country can have a constitution that gets updated a lot and is at most from the 1950s (technically ours is from 1990 when a committee of politicians, political science experts, lawyers etc checked it following the reunification).

    Tapapapatalk
    I'd still say the British state is more functional than the American state.
    I can guarantee you the grass always looks greener somewhere else.
    meh

  6. #45266
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Why do you even want a constitution?

    Society is constantly evolving, why lock yourself into something that you can't change with the times

  7. #45267
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Still not entirely sure why yanks jerk off over a 200 year old piece of paper that has almost no relevance in the modern world.
    Tbh still sort of better than UK's total lack of a proper written constitution that doesn't consist of century or millenia old precedence.

    I understand that not every country can have a constitution that gets updated a lot and is at most from the 1950s (technically ours is from 1990 when a committee of politicians, political science experts, lawyers etc checked it following the reunification).

    Tapapapatalk
    I'd still say the British state is more functional than the American state.
    #brexit
    Actually an '06.

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  8. #45268

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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Why do you even want a constitution?

    Society is constantly evolving, why lock yourself into something that you can't change with the times
    Who says you can't?

  9. #45269
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Why do you even want a constitution?

    Society is constantly evolving, why lock yourself into something that you can't change with the times
    Who says you can't?
    Exactly. The German constitution is regularly changed.
    nevar forget

  10. #45270
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Still not entirely sure why yanks jerk off over a 200 year old piece of paper that has almost no relevance in the modern world.
    Tbh still sort of better than UK's total lack of a proper written constitution that doesn't consist of century or millenia old precedence.

    I understand that not every country can have a constitution that gets updated a lot and is at most from the 1950s (technically ours is from 1990 when a committee of politicians, political science experts, lawyers etc checked it following the reunification).

    Tapapapatalk
    I'd still say the British state is more functional than the American state.
    You have an advantage.

    Once you have your election, and form your government (or your coalition if needed), the other side gets much less abillity to cock block policy and new law.

    They can botch, and complain, but it's harder (than here at least) to completely stop/obstruct the party in power's ability to govern.

    Our wobbling 49/51 situation has led to endless stalemate and inaction. And the worsening partisanship has led to the death of compromise. So deadlock.


  11. #45271
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Still not entirely sure why yanks jerk off over a 200 year old piece of paper that has almost no relevance in the modern world.
    Tbh still sort of better than UK's total lack of a proper written constitution that doesn't consist of century or millenia old precedence.

    I understand that not every country can have a constitution that gets updated a lot and is at most from the 1950s (technically ours is from 1990 when a committee of politicians, political science experts, lawyers etc checked it following the reunification).

    Tapapapatalk
    I'd still say the British state is more functional than the American state.
    You have an advantage.

    Once you have your election, and form your government (or your coalition if needed), the other side gets much less abillity to cock block policy and new law.

    They can botch, and complain, but it's harder (than here at least) to completely stop/obstruct the party in power's ability to govern.

    Our wobbling 49/51 situation has led to endless stalemate and inaction. And the worsening partisanship has led to the death of compromise. So deadlock.
    This is more of an issue of all sides of politics becoming the same rather than a broken system. If the parties actually stood for different things and people voted based on who they agreed with like what is supposed to happen, then this wouldn't be an issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  12. #45272
    SAI Peregrinus's Avatar
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    The argument that the 2nd amendment needs to be changed to ban guns is a good one. However it may not need to be changed to ban some guns: there are types of arms which are not legal for civillian ownership, such as new select fire (fully automatic) weapons or nuclear devices. The automatic weapons ban has held up in court. So it should be possible to ban other classes of weapons, so long as not all weapons are banned. Of course an attempt to ban semi-automatic weapons would end up in a supreme court challenge, and may well end up overruling the other classes of weapon ban.

  13. #45273
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Is someone gonna mow down a crowd with one of those stupid Elon Musk $500 flame throwers? Inquiring minds want to know.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  14. #45274
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAI Peregrinus View Post
    The argument that the 2nd amendment needs to be changed to ban guns is a good one. However it may not need to be changed to ban some guns: there are types of arms which are not legal for civillian ownership, such as new select fire (fully automatic) weapons or nuclear devices. The automatic weapons ban has held up in court. So it should be possible to ban other classes of weapons, so long as not all weapons are banned. Of course an attempt to ban semi-automatic weapons would end up in a supreme court challenge, and may well end up overruling the other classes of weapon ban.
    The problem is that, as you point out, fully automatic weapons are already illegal for the vast majority of people in the US. The few that have them and that you see on YT are collectors, manufacturers and weapons dealers. The next lower class of gun is the semi-automatic, and you can't really ban those due to how wide that field is.

    It's a bit too simple, but this picture (especially example 3) shows why banning semi-auto assault rifles is a bit difficult.
      Spoiler:




    In case you don't notice it, the bottom row is the same gun with different stocks.

    There is something else worth considering: most gun crimes are done with illegal guns (more so in Europe than in the US, but even there). The big exception to that are school shootings, which IIRC have been done almost exclusively with legal guns, both in the US and Europe.

    I have no idea how to deal with that, apart from not looking at guns but at the larger questions of poverty and mental health.
    nevar forget

  15. #45275
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    A lot of gun owners will mention that the vast majority of crimes are committed with handguns, often stolen. Putting more restrictions on legal gun owners, introducing magazine capacity limits, and banning "military-style" weapons doesn't address the elephant in the room.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  16. #45276
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Is someone gonna mow down a crowd with one of those stupid Elon Musk $500 flame throwers? Inquiring minds want to know.
    In original retail state, unlikely. With not insignificant modifications, possibly.

    If you really wanted to do that, though, there are plenty of - real - flamethrowers available. Because America.

  17. #45277
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    I don't know why we are bothering to have a discussion on gun control. It's clear America isn't willing to give them up. Possibly it's because it makes them feel like a big man? Possibly it's to compensate for their tiny penis. We don't know. All we do know is when they decide to grow up and act like an adult country we will all be waiting.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  18. #45278
    SAI Peregrinus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SAI Peregrinus View Post
    The argument that the 2nd amendment needs to be changed to ban guns is a good one. However it may not need to be changed to ban some guns: there are types of arms which are not legal for civillian ownership, such as new select fire (fully automatic) weapons or nuclear devices. The automatic weapons ban has held up in court. So it should be possible to ban other classes of weapons, so long as not all weapons are banned. Of course an attempt to ban semi-automatic weapons would end up in a supreme court challenge, and may well end up overruling the other classes of weapon ban.
    The problem is that, as you point out, fully automatic weapons are already illegal for the vast majority of people in the US. The few that have them and that you see on YT are collectors, manufacturers and weapons dealers. The next lower class of gun is the semi-automatic, and you can't really ban those due to how wide that field is.

    It's a bit too simple, but this picture (especially example 3) shows why banning semi-auto assault rifles is a bit difficult.
      Spoiler:




    In case you don't notice it, the bottom row is the same gun with different stocks.

    There is something else worth considering: most gun crimes are done with illegal guns (more so in Europe than in the US, but even there). The big exception to that are school shootings, which IIRC have been done almost exclusively with legal guns, both in the US and Europe.

    I have no idea how to deal with that, apart from not looking at guns but at the larger questions of poverty and mental health.
    I'd ban all semi-automatic weapons. Rifles, pistols, etc. It's not a cosmetic thing. Color and materials don't matter, only actual performance.

    I'd institute a buyback program & grace period, of course. I wouldn't allow a grandfather clause.

  19. #45279
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SAI Peregrinus View Post
    The argument that the 2nd amendment needs to be changed to ban guns is a good one. However it may not need to be changed to ban some guns: there are types of arms which are not legal for civillian ownership, such as new select fire (fully automatic) weapons or nuclear devices. The automatic weapons ban has held up in court. So it should be possible to ban other classes of weapons, so long as not all weapons are banned. Of course an attempt to ban semi-automatic weapons would end up in a supreme court challenge, and may well end up overruling the other classes of weapon ban.
    The problem is that, as you point out, fully automatic weapons are already illegal for the vast majority of people in the US. The few that have them and that you see on YT are collectors, manufacturers and weapons dealers. The next lower class of gun is the semi-automatic, and you can't really ban those due to how wide that field is.

    It's a bit too simple, but this picture (especially example 3) shows why banning semi-auto assault rifles is a bit difficult.
      Spoiler:




    In case you don't notice it, the bottom row is the same gun with different stocks.

    There is something else worth considering: most gun crimes are done with illegal guns (more so in Europe than in the US, but even there). The big exception to that are school shootings, which IIRC have been done almost exclusively with legal guns, both in the US and Europe.

    I have no idea how to deal with that, apart from not looking at guns but at the larger questions of poverty and mental health.
    *actually not the same exact action except for the last two rifles
    Actually an '06.

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  20. #45280
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    I don't know why we are bothering to have a discussion on gun control. It's clear America isn't willing to give them up. Possibly it's because it makes them feel like a big man? Possibly it's to compensate for their tiny penis. We don't know. All we do know is when they decide to grow up and act like an adult country we will all be waiting.
    As an aside, this has been doing the rounds this morning:


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