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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #50061
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Not to defend Trump, but
    Oh boy, here we go...
    Trump asked about/raised the idea, he did not "push" or "demand" or "press" for an Invasion.
    This position relies on a very flexible definition of the quoted words.
    The reporting I've heard here has been consistent, he asked, his staff (specifically HR McMaster) said "lolnope", the leaders he spoke with said "lolnope",
    Ummm...
    Trump nonetheless persisted. He pointed to the successful invasions of Panama and Grenada during the 1980s — countries which, together, have about 13 percent of Venezuela’s population — as examples of successful military interventions in the region. The next day, Trump announced that a “military option” was possible in Venezuela.

    ...

    But Trump’s obsession with invading Venezuela didn’t end there. He also raised the issue with Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, according to two high-ranking Colombian officials who spoke to the AP under the condition of anonymity.

    Then, in September, he discussed the issue again with Mr. Santos and three other Latin American leaders at a private dinner after the U.N. General Assembly. “My staff told me not to say this,” Trump said, before going around the table asking Latin American leaders if they were all sure that the U.S. shouldn’t invade. All said they were.
    TIL Alistair believes asking everyone in the room point-blank if they support an invasion doesn't qualify as "pushing" or "pressing".

    Let me be clear, Venezuela is a humanitarian disaster and the World SHOULD do something.
    Sure, all we need is a Hispanic version of Ahmed Chalabi to get things rolling. /s
    Mate, I strongly suggest you take some time, and go back, and read some U.S. Presidential history. Every President does and has done what Trump did re: Venezuela.

    Asking re: feasibility =/= advocating/pressing to have happen. Citing similar examples is appropriate to ask such questions.

    I can ask "is the death penalty appropriate here?". That is not me saying "YES, DO DEATH PENALTY NOW!!! NOW!!!111".

    Lets be honest, if Trump wanted to invade Venezuela, he could and would have, advisers be damned. Due to the current fucked up state of warpowers in the U.S. Congress couldn't really stop him, not in any short/mid term.

    I'll be quite honest, I'm surprised we're not in more Wars at the point, given Trump being Trump.

    There is very very little to recommend President Trump, be assured, but this criticism is pure manufactured outrage.

    This is like a Republican getting their panties in a twist that Obama "'pressed' for War in Syria" by asking his advisers if it was warranted/advisable/feasible when his red line was crossed.
    This is an absolute peak alistairpost.
    /shrug

    If you want to be outraged, or fearful, today, be my guest.

    If he'd gone to War, then we'd have something worth outraging over.

    But he didn't. He just asked about it. A year ago.

    So yeah.


  2. #50062
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Not to defend Trump, but
    Oh boy, here we go...
    Trump asked about/raised the idea, he did not "push" or "demand" or "press" for an Invasion.
    This position relies on a very flexible definition of the quoted words.
    The reporting I've heard here has been consistent, he asked, his staff (specifically HR McMaster) said "lolnope", the leaders he spoke with said "lolnope",
    Ummm...
    Trump nonetheless persisted. He pointed to the successful invasions of Panama and Grenada during the 1980s — countries which, together, have about 13 percent of Venezuela’s population — as examples of successful military interventions in the region. The next day, Trump announced that a “military option” was possible in Venezuela.

    ...

    But Trump’s obsession with invading Venezuela didn’t end there. He also raised the issue with Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, according to two high-ranking Colombian officials who spoke to the AP under the condition of anonymity.

    Then, in September, he discussed the issue again with Mr. Santos and three other Latin American leaders at a private dinner after the U.N. General Assembly. “My staff told me not to say this,” Trump said, before going around the table asking Latin American leaders if they were all sure that the U.S. shouldn’t invade. All said they were.
    TIL Alistair believes asking everyone in the room point-blank if they support an invasion doesn't qualify as "pushing" or "pressing".

    Let me be clear, Venezuela is a humanitarian disaster and the World SHOULD do something.
    Sure, all we need is a Hispanic version of Ahmed Chalabi to get things rolling. /s
    Mate, I strongly suggest you take some time, and go back, and read some U.S. Presidential history. Every President does and has done what Trump did re: Venezuela.

    Asking re: feasibility =/= advocating/pressing to have happen. Citing similar examples is appropriate to ask such questions.

    I can ask "is the death penalty appropriate here?". That is not me saying "YES, DO DEATH PENALTY NOW!!! NOW!!!111".

    Lets be honest, if Trump wanted to invade Venezuela, he could and would have, advisers be damned. Due to the current fucked up state of warpowers in the U.S. Congress couldn't really stop him, not in any short/mid term.

    I'll be quite honest, I'm surprised we're not in more Wars at the point, given Trump being Trump.

    There is very very little to recommend President Trump, be assured, but this criticism is pure manufactured outrage.

    This is like a Republican getting their panties in a twist that Obama "'pressed' for War in Syria" by asking his advisers if it was warranted/advisable/feasible when his red line was crossed.
    This is an absolute peak alistairpost.
    Lacks "BUT HER EMAILS"

  3. #50063
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Not to defend Trump, but
    Oh boy, here we go...
    Trump asked about/raised the idea, he did not "push" or "demand" or "press" for an Invasion.
    This position relies on a very flexible definition of the quoted words.
    The reporting I've heard here has been consistent, he asked, his staff (specifically HR McMaster) said "lolnope", the leaders he spoke with said "lolnope",
    Ummm...
    Trump nonetheless persisted. He pointed to the successful invasions of Panama and Grenada during the 1980s — countries which, together, have about 13 percent of Venezuela’s population — as examples of successful military interventions in the region. The next day, Trump announced that a “military option” was possible in Venezuela.

    ...

    But Trump’s obsession with invading Venezuela didn’t end there. He also raised the issue with Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, according to two high-ranking Colombian officials who spoke to the AP under the condition of anonymity.

    Then, in September, he discussed the issue again with Mr. Santos and three other Latin American leaders at a private dinner after the U.N. General Assembly. “My staff told me not to say this,” Trump said, before going around the table asking Latin American leaders if they were all sure that the U.S. shouldn’t invade. All said they were.
    TIL Alistair believes asking everyone in the room point-blank if they support an invasion doesn't qualify as "pushing" or "pressing".

    Let me be clear, Venezuela is a humanitarian disaster and the World SHOULD do something.
    Sure, all we need is a Hispanic version of Ahmed Chalabi to get things rolling. /s
    Mate, I strongly suggest you take some time, and go back, and read some U.S. Presidential history. Every President does and has done what Trump did re: Venezuela.

    Asking re: feasibility =/= advocating/pressing to have happen. Citing similar examples is appropriate to ask such questions.

    I can ask "is the death penalty appropriate here?". That is not me saying "YES, DO DEATH PENALTY NOW!!! NOW!!!111".

    Lets be honest, if Trump wanted to invade Venezuela, he could and would have, advisers be damned. Due to the current fucked up state of warpowers in the U.S. Congress couldn't really stop him, not in any short/mid term.

    I'll be quite honest, I'm surprised we're not in more Wars at the point, given Trump being Trump.

    There is very very little to recommend President Trump, be assured, but this criticism is pure manufactured outrage.

    This is like a Republican getting their panties in a twist that Obama "'pressed' for War in Syria" by asking his advisers if it was warranted/advisable/feasible when his red line was crossed.
    This is an absolute peak alistairpost.
    Lacks "BUT HER EMAILS"
    Probably because the topic has nothing to do with emails, maybe?


  4. #50064
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Dis gon be gud


  5. #50065

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    Mate, I strongly suggest you take some time, and go back, and read some U.S. Presidential history. Every President does and has done what Trump did re: Venezuela.

    Asking re: feasibility =/= advocating/pressing to have happen. Citing similar examples is appropriate to ask such questions.

    I can ask "is the death penalty appropriate here?". That is not me saying "YES, DO DEATH PENALTY NOW!!! NOW!!!111".

    Lets be honest, if Trump wanted to invade Venezuela, he could and would have, advisers be damned. Due to the current fucked up state of warpowers in the U.S. Congress couldn't really stop him, not in any short/mid term.

    I'll be quite honest, I'm surprised we're not in more Wars at the point, given Trump being Trump.

    There is very very little to recommend President Trump, be assured, but this criticism is pure manufactured outrage.

    This is like a Republican getting their panties in a twist that Obama "'pressed' for War in Syria" by asking his advisers if it was warranted/advisable/feasible when his red line was crossed.
    I mean, this feels like a very charitable reading.

    He asked about invading Venezuela, god knows why he thought that was a good idea, and he was told it would be a mistake.

    Asking once is fine, even if it shows off how utterly ignorant he is of some very basic shit.

    But then it sounds like he keeps asking, and he even asks a bunch of guys that he had been advised not to tell that he was even considering it.

    And at that point, it looks more like he didn't like the first answer he got, and so he keeps asking until he gets the answer he wants.

    Thankfully, no one gave him that answer.

    Yet.
    Totally not Victoria Stecker forgetting his password and not having access to his work email.

  6. #50066
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steckersaurus View Post
    I mean, this feels like a very charitable reading.
    I can see that. But it's also based on a broad reading of history, and of previous Presidents who (in the privacy of their advisers or discussions with foreign leaders) raised some similarly crazy military ideas.

    He asked about invading Venezuela, god knows why he thought that was a good idea, and he was told it would be a mistake.
    Venezuela is a humanitarian crisis, a literal disaster. And no one is doing anything about it.

    While I agree with you, an invastion and regime change is likely the worst idea literally ever, it's well within the historic context of how the U.S. "handles things", sadly.

    Asking once is fine, even if it shows off how utterly ignorant he is of some very basic shit.

    But then it sounds like he keeps asking, and he even asks a bunch of guys that he had been advised not to tell that he was even considering it.
    Trump being Trump. Did I mention he is totally shit?

    And at that point, it looks more like he didn't like the first answer he got, and so he keeps asking until he gets the answer he wants.

    Thankfully, no one gave him that answer.

    Yet.
    Except he's shown he'll do his crazy shit even if no one gives him the answer he wants, and he has the power (in this case) to do it.

    I think we agree, thankfully there was no support whatsoever for this, and thankfully Trump didn't do it anyway like the egomaniac he is.


  7. #50067
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Pruitt-Is’gone

    Last edited by Sparq; July 6 2018 at 02:44:36 AM.

  8. #50068
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Not to defend Trump, but
    Oh boy, here we go...
    Trump asked about/raised the idea, he did not "push" or "demand" or "press" for an Invasion.
    This position relies on a very flexible definition of the quoted words.
    The reporting I've heard here has been consistent, he asked, his staff (specifically HR McMaster) said "lolnope", the leaders he spoke with said "lolnope",
    Ummm...
    Trump nonetheless persisted. He pointed to the successful invasions of Panama and Grenada during the 1980s — countries which, together, have about 13 percent of Venezuela’s population — as examples of successful military interventions in the region. The next day, Trump announced that a “military option” was possible in Venezuela.

    ...

    But Trump’s obsession with invading Venezuela didn’t end there. He also raised the issue with Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, according to two high-ranking Colombian officials who spoke to the AP under the condition of anonymity.

    Then, in September, he discussed the issue again with Mr. Santos and three other Latin American leaders at a private dinner after the U.N. General Assembly. “My staff told me not to say this,” Trump said, before going around the table asking Latin American leaders if they were all sure that the U.S. shouldn’t invade. All said they were.
    TIL Alistair believes asking everyone in the room point-blank if they support an invasion doesn't qualify as "pushing" or "pressing".

    Let me be clear, Venezuela is a humanitarian disaster and the World SHOULD do something.
    Sure, all we need is a Hispanic version of Ahmed Chalabi to get things rolling. /s
    Mate, I strongly suggest you take some time, and go back, and read some U.S. Presidential history. Every President does and has done what Trump did re: Venezuela.

    Asking re: feasibility =/= advocating/pressing to have happen. Citing similar examples is appropriate to ask such questions.

    I can ask "is the death penalty appropriate here?". That is not me saying "YES, DO DEATH PENALTY NOW!!! NOW!!!111".

    Lets be honest, if Trump wanted to invade Venezuela, he could and would have, advisers be damned. Due to the current fucked up state of warpowers in the U.S. Congress couldn't really stop him, not in any short/mid term.

    I'll be quite honest, I'm surprised we're not in more Wars at the point, given Trump being Trump.

    There is very very little to recommend President Trump, be assured, but this criticism is pure manufactured outrage.

    This is like a Republican getting their panties in a twist that Obama "'pressed' for War in Syria" by asking his advisers if it was warranted/advisable/feasible when his red line was crossed.
    Asking your advisers isn't the issue. They are there to advise and they cant do that if you never ask them questions.

    Asking Latin American leaders if they are SURE they don't want the US to invade (which implies they have already been asked once) after literally everyone has said don't do this because even talking about it could backfire (which it ultimately did). Not so great..
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  9. #50069
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Not to defend Trump, but
    Oh boy, here we go...
    Trump asked about/raised the idea, he did not "push" or "demand" or "press" for an Invasion.
    This position relies on a very flexible definition of the quoted words.
    The reporting I've heard here has been consistent, he asked, his staff (specifically HR McMaster) said "lolnope", the leaders he spoke with said "lolnope",
    Ummm...
    Trump nonetheless persisted. He pointed to the successful invasions of Panama and Grenada during the 1980s — countries which, together, have about 13 percent of Venezuela’s population — as examples of successful military interventions in the region. The next day, Trump announced that a “military option” was possible in Venezuela.

    ...

    But Trump’s obsession with invading Venezuela didn’t end there. He also raised the issue with Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos, according to two high-ranking Colombian officials who spoke to the AP under the condition of anonymity.

    Then, in September, he discussed the issue again with Mr. Santos and three other Latin American leaders at a private dinner after the U.N. General Assembly. “My staff told me not to say this,” Trump said, before going around the table asking Latin American leaders if they were all sure that the U.S. shouldn’t invade. All said they were.
    TIL Alistair believes asking everyone in the room point-blank if they support an invasion doesn't qualify as "pushing" or "pressing".

    Let me be clear, Venezuela is a humanitarian disaster and the World SHOULD do something.
    Sure, all we need is a Hispanic version of Ahmed Chalabi to get things rolling. /s
    Mate, I strongly suggest you take some time, and go back, and read some U.S. Presidential history. Every President does and has done what Trump did re: Venezuela.

    Asking re: feasibility =/= advocating/pressing to have happen. Citing similar examples is appropriate to ask such questions.

    I can ask "is the death penalty appropriate here?". That is not me saying "YES, DO DEATH PENALTY NOW!!! NOW!!!111".

    Lets be honest, if Trump wanted to invade Venezuela, he could and would have, advisers be damned. Due to the current fucked up state of warpowers in the U.S. Congress couldn't really stop him, not in any short/mid term.

    I'll be quite honest, I'm surprised we're not in more Wars at the point, given Trump being Trump.

    There is very very little to recommend President Trump, be assured, but this criticism is pure manufactured outrage.

    This is like a Republican getting their panties in a twist that Obama "'pressed' for War in Syria" by asking his advisers if it was warranted/advisable/feasible when his red line was crossed.
    Asking your advisers isn't the issue. They are there to advise and they cant do that if you never ask them questions.

    Asking Latin American leaders if they are SURE they don't want the US to invade (which implies they have already been asked once) after literally everyone has said don't do this because even talking about it could backfire (which it ultimately did). Not so great..
    This. Asking advisors stupid questions is fine; it's a large part of what they're there for, fielding stupid questions and ideas so they don't go public. It's the ignoring them and asking the same of an (essentially) public group of assembled foreign leaders with their own agendas that's the problem. The man just can't help himself.

  10. #50070
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Watched The Purge last night.

    It's terrible, but mildly believable looking at America now.

  11. #50071
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Watched The Purge last night.

    It's terrible, but mildly believable looking at America now.
    Euros thinking Hollywood films are real examples of real U.S. life, confirmed.


  12. #50072
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Watched The Purge last night.

    It's terrible, but mildly believable looking at America now.
    Euros thinking Hollywood films are real examples of real U.S. life, confirmed.
    Well, Idiocracy is coming true...
    meh

  13. #50073
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Watched The Purge last night.

    It's terrible, but mildly believable looking at America now.
    Euros thinking Hollywood films are real examples of real U.S. life, confirmed.
    Mildly believable does not equate to: is an accurate representation.

    Try again bootstrap bill.

  14. #50074
    Smarnca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Dis gon be gud

    https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/giant-...y-over-london/



  15. #50075
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    More turbo-lightspeed neoliberal platitudes/virtue signaling/misplaced priorities on full display.
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    would they prefer Boris Johnson then?

    bunch of noncey wankers

  16. #50076
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Djan Seriy Anaplian View Post
    Dis gon be gud

    https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/giant-...y-over-london/

    One will care greatly, the other, not so much.

  17. #50077
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    Sadiq doesn't even do anything (good or bad). It's basically just a racist reaction against a legitimate protest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  18. #50078
    Smarnca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Sadiq doesn't even do anything (good or bad). It's basically just a racist reaction against a legitimate protest.
    What are they protesting? Their own stupidity?


  19. #50079
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Sadiq doesn't even do anything (good or bad). It's basically just a racist reaction against a legitimate protest.
    What are they protesting? Their own stupidity?
    The Racist Hegemony of Donald Trump.

  20. #50080
    Alistair's Avatar
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    https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/06/polit...ech/index.html

    The 11 most dangerous things Donald Trump said in his Montana speech (CNN)


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