hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 2499 of 2655 FirstFirst ... 149919992399244924892496249724982499250025012502250925492599 ... LastLast
Results 49,961 to 49,980 of 53091

Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #49961
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    2,194
    Do you even 20th century, Erich?

  2. #49962
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    10,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    Hey, uh, at the risk of getting hated by everyone, i had an idle thought watching the Vietnam War docu just now.

    Would you guys call the Khmer Rogue nowadays Nazis?

    Ultranationalist - antiintellectual - xenophobic - autocratic - autarc. Checks all the boxes for what Trumpism is decried for in its infancy.


    I get tired of people squabbling endlessly over categories. Trump is an asshole, the MAGA crowd are assholes, their "fuck you got mine" enablers are assholes. Thats good enough for me.
    Id call them just another example of American-backed terrorists.

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/04/k...united-states/
    Awfully convenient for a communist magazine to deflect the origin of the Khmer Rouge away from being the communist party of Cambodia.
    meh

  3. #49963
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    10,819
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Do you even 20th century, Erich?
    The liberals bombed the fascists in ww2 mate.
    meh

  4. #49964
    Frug's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    13,869
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    Hey, uh, at the risk of getting hated by everyone, i had an idle thought watching the Vietnam War docu just now.

    Would you guys call the Khmer Rogue nowadays Nazis?

    Ultranationalist - antiintellectual - xenophobic - autocratic - autarc. Checks all the boxes for what Trumpism is decried for in its infancy.
    Fantastic documentary, I was just rewatching it earlier today.

    I don't know what to say about how anti-intellectualism fits into it. Seems to me that's more of a communist thing, what with the bourgeois aristocracy being the educated ones who don't represent the common people so they need to be removed.

    No denying it's part of the populism of the right today though. I guess it's a great tool for any murderous regime.

    The marked difference has got to be whether there's an emphasis on race or not, doesn't it? How you divide people up? Is it based on race, or class? The result is the same but the lines are different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  5. #49965

    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Frug, have you ever heard the expression “Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds”?
    Man you like proverbs. I had to look this up. That's a frightening belief system you've got, but I guess it sounds pretty punk.
    Huh?

    Can you point me at what you read when you looked up the phrase?

    The idea is that well-meaning liberals tend to enable fascism, either inadvertently, or because they prefer fascism and it’s fetishization of private property to socialism and the abolition of private property. That, given a choice, liberals accept fascism because fascist social relations are just a more cruel and despotic form of liberal capitalism, requiring no leap of faith or imagination to embrace.
    well this is just patent nonsense

  6. #49966

    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    Would you guys call the Khmer Rogue nowadays Nazis?
    There's some commonality: as you mentioned they were both genocidal, dictatorial, autocratic regimes with a fondness for legends, myths, blood and soil. You'd struggle to make the comparison stick, though. The language of a communist state is too frequently opposed to the language of the fascist state. In particular the framing of the Khmer regime as a revolutionary struggle that must only look to the future where all were equal - the point of executing people for showing signs of deference or for using terms other than "comrade" and "brother" to refer to one another. Nazism, like most ultra right wing ideologies, is embedded in the mythology of the past and of the hierarchy.

  7. #49967
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    2,194
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilalaunebör View Post
    Hey, uh, at the risk of getting hated by everyone, i had an idle thought watching the Vietnam War docu just now.

    Would you guys call the Khmer Rogue nowadays Nazis?

    Ultranationalist - antiintellectual - xenophobic - autocratic - autarc. Checks all the boxes for what Trumpism is decried for in its infancy.


    I get tired of people squabbling endlessly over categories. Trump is an asshole, the MAGA crowd are assholes, their "fuck you got mine" enablers are assholes. Thats good enough for me.
    Id call them just another example of American-backed terrorists.

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/04/k...united-states/
    Awfully convenient for a communist magazine to deflect the origin of the Khmer Rouge away from being the communist party of Cambodia.
    Jacobin is a socialist magazine, not a communist magazine.

  8. #49968
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 13, 2017
    Location
    More turbo-lightspeed neoliberal platitudes/virtue signaling/misplaced priorities on full display.
    Posts
    4,641
    mayocide when

    literally

  9. #49969
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    2,194
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Frug, have you ever heard the expression “Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds”?
    Man you like proverbs. I had to look this up. That's a frightening belief system you've got, but I guess it sounds pretty punk.
    Huh?

    Can you point me at what you read when you looked up the phrase?

    The idea is that well-meaning liberals tend to enable fascism, either inadvertently, or because they prefer fascism and it’s fetishization of private property to socialism and the abolition of private property. That, given a choice, liberals accept fascism because fascist social relations are just a more cruel and despotic form of liberal capitalism, requiring no leap of faith or imagination to embrace.
    well this is just patent nonsense
    O’RLY?

    So all those Latin American and Asian fascists the US has supported in the face of local socialist movements is just something that never happened?

    And social democratic and liberal parties in Germany and Italy undermining socialist and communist parties did nothing to open the way for Mussolini and Hitler, right? And the economic liberalization of post-Soviet Russia did nothing to help Putin consolidate power, right?

    And American liberal organizations have never defended the free speech of fascists, or condemned attempts to deplatform fascism, or led “better dead than red” campaigns, or anything like that, right?
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; July 3 2018 at 12:34:29 AM.

  10. #49970

    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Posts
    6,499
    post hoc ergo propter hoc etc. etc.

  11. #49971

    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Posts
    6,499
    Also I'm with Djan. This new fangled weaponisation and bastardisation of the term "liberal" to attack anyone to the right of Comrade Ralph is fucking absurd.

  12. #49972
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    2,194
    Umm, newfangled?



    Lamartine rejects the red flag. Paris, 1848. I’d mark this as the moment where the real split between socialist left and liberal center occurred.

    Also:



    There’s nothing new about socialists using the term “liberal” perjoratively. It’s just fallen out ofnfavor in the US as the right succeeded in conflating liberalism and socialism in the popular political consciousness, and socialist thought was generally suppressed in the later part of the last century.

    As socialism re-emerges as a viable political force in the US, so too has the phenomenon of liberals taking flak from both the left and the right.
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; July 3 2018 at 12:42:55 AM.

  13. #49973
    Dirk Magnum's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18, 2011
    Posts
    2,808
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Also I'm with Djan. This new fangled weaponisation and bastardisation of the term "liberal" to attack anyone to the right of Comrade Ralph is fucking absurd.
    This attack is decades old in America.

    And in case anyone is wondering (I’m on pain meds), Ochs’s song is criticing the mushy center that the DNC continues to believe almost a half century later forms the base of their party.

  14. #49974
    mewninn's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    1,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Frug, have you ever heard the expression “Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds”?
    Man you like proverbs. I had to look this up. That's a frightening belief system you've got, but I guess it sounds pretty punk.
    Huh?

    Can you point me at what you read when you looked up the phrase?

    The idea is that well-meaning liberals tend to enable fascism, either inadvertently, or because they prefer fascism and it’s fetishization of private property to socialism and the abolition of private property. That, given a choice, liberals accept fascism because fascist social relations are just a more cruel and despotic form of liberal capitalism, requiring no leap of faith or imagination to embrace.
    well this is just patent nonsense
    O’RLY?

    So all those Latin American and Asian fascists the US has supported in the face of local socialist movements is just something that never happened?

    And social democratic and liberal parties in Germany and Italy undermining socialist and communist parties did nothing to open the way for Mussolini and Hitler, right? And the economic liberalization of post-Soviet Russia did nothing to help Putin consolidate power, right?

    And American liberal organizations have never defended the free speech of fascists, or condemned attempts to deplatform fascism, or led “better dead than red” campaigns, or anything like that, right?
    Yes groups like the ACLU have defended the free speech of fascists and nazis. Because they know that the erosion of rights will start with fringe groups. What exactly is your point?

    And before the euros start bleating about their precious hate speech laws, would any of you really trust such laws to the body of shit heels known as the US Congress, or to people like Jeff Sessions?
    Last edited by mewninn; July 3 2018 at 12:44:24 AM.

  15. #49975
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    2,194
    My point is that the ACLU was not founded as a general purpose civil rights shop. It was founded in the early 20th century to defend anarchists, communists, and socialists from prosecution under the Sedition and Espionage acts. It then purged its leadership of leftists in the middle of the century, embraced liberalism, stopped defending the speech communists and socialists (remember when they refused to defend Paul Robeson?), and began defending Nazis.

    Funny how that works.
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; July 3 2018 at 12:50:58 AM.

  16. #49976

    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Umm, newfangled?
    Yes. As in started being used in fashionable hipster leftwing online circles all of about six weeks ago. As in being intentionally abused for shock and propaganda purposes because it's easier to attack "them" when you can give them a label. Because it's easier to attack "them" when you've defined "them" to be a group so large you can viably attach the label to anyone you damned well please; anyone you deem to be outside of your current ideological vogue. It's a meaningless, bastardised use of the term and your attempt to link it back to utterly irrelevant, centuries old history is a paper thin facade that makes you look like a fool.

    Politics of identity is self-defeating.

    As socialism re-emerges as a viable political force in the US
    ahahaha.

  17. #49977
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    Bonding around
    Posts
    18,766
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018...trump-wto-bill

    According to Axios, a leaked draft of a Trump administration bill would essentially “declare America’s abandonment of fundamental World Trade Organization rules” by allowing the president to raise U.S. tariffs at will, “without congressional consent and international rules be damned.”
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  18. #49978

    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Posts
    6,499
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018...trump-wto-bill

    According to Axios, a leaked draft of a Trump administration bill would essentially “declare America’s abandonment of fundamental World Trade Organization rules” by allowing the president to raise U.S. tariffs at will, “without congressional consent and international rules be damned.”
    Remind me, is investing total control of foreign trade into one man liberal or not? I need to be told so that I know what to think about this. My gut says it's fundamentally illiberal, but it seems to be on the right wing so I can't be sure

  19. #49979
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    Bonding around
    Posts
    18,766
    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018...trump-wto-bill

    According to Axios, a leaked draft of a Trump administration bill would essentially “declare America’s abandonment of fundamental World Trade Organization rules” by allowing the president to raise U.S. tariffs at will, “without congressional consent and international rules be damned.”
    Remind me, is investing total control of foreign trade into one man liberal or not? I need to be told so that I know what to think about this. My gut says it's fundamentally illiberal, but it seems to be on the right wing so I can't be sure
    Put your trust in to the god emperor trump and nothing will ever be a worry for you again.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  20. #49980
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    2,194
    It's illiberal. But people who believe in liberal economic principles will still support it.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •