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Thread: US Politics Thread

  1. #57541
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    So Occupy + Cops on Occupy Side + More Threat of Violence to the General Public? Is that right?
    I really don't get the purpose of this kind of concern trolling, I think you already know how most people here will respond tbh.
    Concern trolling?

    I'm asking so as to better understand. That I may have some idea how some posters might respond may be true, doesn't mean I wouldn't want to understand the viewpoint and the why behind it.

    How is engaging with folks and asking (basic) questions of process "trolling" if there is not any disagreement nor a "show drop gotcha" is maybe you expect to come next. Where is the "troll" exactly?

    We have a shitton of problems here in the U.S. It's getting worse. I'm always open to ideas that might fix things, no matter if they might be unrealistic. Alos, hearing what folks thinks helps understand how they see the world, which is IMO a good thing.

    "Concern trolling", lol. You kids and your funny ways some times.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.

  2. #57542
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    It's easy to see why people oppose stupid shit. More interesting to see why people insist on supporting stupid shit.
    Really? Its the same old song and dance.

    We all have our primary emotional triggers. For around 20%-30% of people it's fear.

    Fear-driven personalities are easy to manipulate with the threat of an external "other". Emotional-triggered decisions are protected against reason via self-deceptive internal rationalisation.
    OK, fine. And now what? Now we 'know' that. What do we do about it?
    Like for this one, for lots of problems in this world, it all boils down to: educate*) people. From kindergarden on.

    People will still feel their personal irrational fear. But they might be aware of it. I am, at least. But at the same time that's the exact reason why I know it would be utter BS when my personal irrational reaction would become national law.

    *) Implies proper education by qualified personal. No home-schooling, no political driven school curriculums or some such crap.
    I'm all for this btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.

  3. #57543
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    So Occupy + Cops on Occupy Side + More Threat of Violence to the General Public? Is that right?
    I really don't get the purpose of this kind of concern trolling, I think you already know how most people here will respond tbh.
    Concern trolling?

    I'm asking so as to better understand. That I may have some idea how some posters might respond may be true, doesn't mean I wouldn't want to understand the viewpoint and the why behind it.

    How is engaging with folks and asking (basic) questions of process "trolling" if there is not any disagreement nor a "show drop gotcha" is maybe you expect to come next. Where is the "troll" exactly?

    We have a shitton of problems here in the U.S. It's getting worse. I'm always open to ideas that might fix things, no matter if they might be unrealistic. Alos, hearing what folks thinks helps understand how they see the world, which is IMO a good thing.

    "Concern trolling", lol. You kids and your funny ways some times.
    Troll in this case does not mean 'lol i trol u le epic style' just that you are out to get responses and that I questioned your sincerity.

    I don't think the problems in the USA can really be solved without first doing something about the bankers, executives, media propagandists, and their political lackeys; and that won't happen because they are extremely insulated from the anger of the lower classes, which has been turned against itself instead of the ones at the top who are in control.

    The problems are only going to continue to get worse and there's really nothing anyone can do about it, the systems that are in place are actually quite resilient against meaningful change from below.

    https://truthout.org/articles/liftin...united-states/

    We are living in a time of Inverted Totalitarianism, in which the tools used to maintain the status quo are much more subtle and technologically advanced ... These include propaganda and major media outlets that hide the real news about conditions at home and our activities around the world behind distractions [...] Another tool is to create insecurity in the population so that people are unwilling to speak out and take risks for fear of losing their jobs [...] Changes in college education also silence dissent [...] Adjunct professors [...] are less willing to teach topics that are viewed as controversial. This, combined with massive student debt, are tools to silence the student population, once the center of transformative action
    Last edited by Approaching Walrus; January 11 2019 at 05:42:02 PM.

  4. #57544
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    So Occupy + Cops on Occupy Side + More Threat of Violence to the General Public? Is that right?
    I really don't get the purpose of this kind of concern trolling, I think you already know how most people here will respond tbh.
    Concern trolling?

    I'm asking so as to better understand. That I may have some idea how some posters might respond may be true, doesn't mean I wouldn't want to understand the viewpoint and the why behind it.

    How is engaging with folks and asking (basic) questions of process "trolling" if there is not any disagreement nor a "show drop gotcha" is maybe you expect to come next. Where is the "troll" exactly?

    We have a shitton of problems here in the U.S. It's getting worse. I'm always open to ideas that might fix things, no matter if they might be unrealistic. Alos, hearing what folks thinks helps understand how they see the world, which is IMO a good thing.

    "Concern trolling", lol. You kids and your funny ways some times.
    Troll in this case does not mean 'lol i trol u le epic style' just that you are out to get responses and that I questioned your sincerity.

    I don't think the problems in the USA can really be solved without first doing something about the bankers, executives, media propagandists, and their political lackeys; and that won't happen because they are extremely insulated from the anger of the lower classes, which has been turned against itself instead of the ones at the top who are in control.

    The problems are only going to continue to get worse and there's really nothing anyone can do about it, the systems that are in place are actually quite resilient against meaningful change from below.

    https://truthout.org/articles/liftin...united-states/

    We are living in a time of Inverted Totalitarianism, in which the tools used to maintain the status quo are much more subtle and technologically advanced ... These include propaganda and major media outlets that hide the real news about conditions at home and our activities around the world behind distractions [...] Another tool is to create insecurity in the population so that people are unwilling to speak out and take risks for fear of losing their jobs [...] Changes in college education also silence dissent [...] Adjunct professors [...] are less willing to teach topics that are viewed as controversial. This, combined with massive student debt, are tools to silence the student population, once the center of transformative action
    I'd suggest that part of the problem with Internet culture is we're all so deeply invested in questioning each others "hidden motivations" instead of just getting on with it. Of course, that's EXACTLY what a concern troll might say, amirite? After all......I'm only asking questions.

    As to your point re: the system being resistant to "from below" I agree completely, and it goes back to my comment before: scholarly study may say 3% or a bit more can get it done......I say lol, nope. The system eats up little groups and minority movements pretty well in all but the most obvious cases. The establish power bases are exceptionally strong, but they could be beaten. That absolutely could.

    I think we'd need a much more material uprising or objection and activity. I'm honestly surprised Trump hasn't helped create that so far. It's a little embarrassing tbqh that so many still like this chucklehead.
    Last edited by Alistair; January 11 2019 at 06:05:49 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.

  5. #57545
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post

    I don't think the problems in the USA can really be solved without first doing something about the bankers, executives, media propagandists, and their political lackeys; and that won't happen because they are extremely insulated from the anger of the lower classes, which has been turned against itself instead of the ones at the top who are in control.
    What are you, some sort of Nazi?


  6. #57546

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    Trump rejects a compromise negotiated by Republicans with other Republicans...

    What were left with is a dynamic in which Republicans negotiated a deal with other Republicans, only to be shot down by a Republican president.

    Not surprisingly, Graham announced soon after hed given up on trying to find a resolution to the shutdown.
    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...ed-republicans

    Meanwhile, Democratic House is passing Republican bills, and Mitch McConnell won't bring them for the vote in the Senate.

    :BothSidesDoIt:
    Last edited by Don Rumata; January 11 2019 at 06:18:59 PM.

  7. #57547
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    If Trump were smart, he'd drop the Wall and say something like "Democrats are right, the Wall won't work. So I've decided to instead to compromise and use my emergency powers to do the thing almost everyone agrees will work, so today forward we will be imposing criminal penalties on anyone caught hiring or otherwise employing illegal aliens. This starts today, and the mandatory minimums sentence will be 5 years in prison. And as soon as Congress passes legislation to fund this program and impose similar penalties I will end the emergency."

    Dems would have a hell of a time re-branding their "we support enforcement, but do it smarter" message of the past few months to find a way to say "nope" to funding that, and Trump would get the end result his supporters want.

    But nope, he's dumb as a brick. Well, and of course Republicans do love the free/cheap labor.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You (Isyel) are at the ranking top of all the other users in here that consistently just dishes out insults without any other content. You had it coming. Take it like a man and grow up.

  8. #57548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    If Trump were smart, he'd drop the Wall and say something like "Democrats are right, the Wall won't work. So I've decided to instead to compromise and use my emergency powers to do the thing almost everyone agrees will work, so today forward we will be imposing criminal penalties on anyone caught hiring or otherwise employing illegal aliens. This starts today, and the mandatory minimums sentence will be 5 years in prison. And as soon as Congress passes legislation to fund this program and impose similar penalties I will end the emergency."

    Dems would have a hell of a time re-branding their "we support enforcement, but do it smarter" message of the past few months to find a way to say "nope" to funding that, and Trump would get the end result his supporters want.

    But nope, he's dumb as a brick. Well, and of course Republicans do love the free/cheap labor.
    Is this the point where our Donnie decides to read FHC
    https://i.imgur.com/Rvz5b6l.gif
    Careful not head hit on rock!
    laughs in Slovenian
    http://i.imgur.com/FCT2R1h.png

  9. #57549
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    So Occupy + Cops on Occupy Side + More Threat of Violence to the General Public? Is that right?
    I really don't get the purpose of this kind of concern trolling, I think you already know how most people here will respond tbh.
    Just the attitude that's built into all of us by terrible schooling. History classes will belabor the "peaceful" nature of civil disobedience in the civil rights era, forgetting that there was also no give in that movement, it was extremely assertive, and it didn't care about the tension it created.

    There's an expectation to politely request that people someday consider what you're asking for, maybe. But don't be too loud about it.


    chance requires violence, news at 11

    violence != bloodshed
    Zizek is such a wonderful avatar for the modern left, where's the ketchup stains on that Polo tho ? he's not projecting the proper dirtbag image.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  10. #57550

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    This will be the greatest and the best shutdown ever, mark my words! No one is better at shutdowns than me, the best dealmaker!

    The beatings will continue until morale improves.

    (Will the shutdown carry on until Trump is removed from power in some way?)
    Last edited by depili; January 11 2019 at 07:47:14 PM.

  11. #57551
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Threat of violence to the establishment. The general public is the occupy movement.
    What % of the general public then do you think you'd need onboard with this, and active in the Occupy portion?
    that same public willingly tolerates many thousands of firearm deaths a year

    all you need to do is make it about nationalistic machismo and thinly veiled racism and they'll fucking clamor for it


    You know





    Like Trump did
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  12. #57552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    If Trump were smart, he'd drop the Wall and say something like "Democrats are right, the Wall won't work. So I've decided to instead to compromise and use my emergency powers to do the thing almost everyone agrees will work, so today forward we will be imposing criminal penalties on anyone caught hiring or otherwise employing illegal aliens. This starts today, and the mandatory minimums sentence will be 5 years in prison. And as soon as Congress passes legislation to fund this program and impose similar penalties I will end the emergency."

    Dems would have a hell of a time re-branding their "we support enforcement, but do it smarter" message of the past few months to find a way to say "nope" to funding that, and Trump would get the end result his supporters want.

    But nope, he's dumb as a brick. Well, and of course Republicans do love the free/cheap labor.
    Specifically including Trump himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  13. #57553
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    This will be the greatest and the best shutdown ever, mark my words! No one is better at shutdowns than me, the best dealmaker!

    The beatings will continue until morale improves.

    (Will the shutdown carry on until Trump is removed from power in some way?)
    It would be easier for congress to override his veto, than for him to be impeached, so probably not. Unless republicans ride the shutdown till 2020 of course.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  14. #57554

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    Breaking from NYTimes: F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia

    WASHINGTON — In the days after President Trump fired James B. Comey as F.B.I. director, law enforcement officials became so concerned by the president’s behavior that they began investigating whether he had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests, according to former law enforcement officials and others familiar with the investigation.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/u...a-inquiry.html

  15. #57555
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Trump is never going to admit he was wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  16. #57556
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    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  17. #57557

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    the implication that the contractors wont have structural engineers on staff or consulting for them is... amusing is a good way to put it.

    the whole thing is a boondongle, but that's not really a legitimate criticism of the project.
    I think that she's implying that they haven't done a thorough job, and possibly won't do a thorough job with the engineering design beforehand, because anyone who does will come up with something that's drastically more expensive than what's currently being proposed. Sure, there's some 'engineering' that goes into designing the shitty wall prototypes, but it's the kind of thing that starts with "It needs to be X meters tall and hard for someone to walk through" and ignores a multitude of other factors. That's a starting point, but then there's a ton of other stuff to account for (like whether chunks can be cut out of it with a sawzall) that might get skipped in the name of money.

    And what she's saying about change orders is spot on. That's common in the construction industry already. When I worked for a wholesaler, our customers were the contractors who would do the actual construction. I know of at least one that would gladly lowball an bid for a job if they knew the plans were fucked up, because they knew there would be a ton of change orders and they could charge the owners through the nose to make the necessary changes. If these walls were to get built, so many things would need to change, and those changes won't go out for competitive bids, they'll just go to the contractor already on the job, for however much they want to charge.

    That said, it is worded really poorly, as if the people designing it don't have engineers working for them. But it's twitter, so :shrug:
    Totally not Victoria Stecker forgetting his password and not having access to his work email.

  18. #57558
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Trumpty Dumpty promised a wall,
    Said that Mexico would pay for it all.
    Pelosi and Schumer said "Wait, not so fast."
    "You can stick that wall right up your ass."
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  19. #57559
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Is it time to abandon the country?
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  20. #57560

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Is it time to abandon the country?
    Oh, come on, the fun is just getting started.

    It will go something like this:
    Trump shuts down government. FDA stops inspecting food, including fruit and greens. People get sick, and Dole Fruit sees sales fall. Dole conspires with United Airlines (no TSA, nobody flying), CIA and the mob to "fix the problem".

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