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Thread: US Politics Thread

  1. #56241
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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    Who is this absolute madman???

  2. #56242

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steckersaurus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post

    Actually the right is sitting precisely where it has been for twenty years. The left keeps running off further into the distance though, for most of my adult life.
    Your account says 2011. That suggests that you are more than 3 years old. You should have been around to witness the right going farther right every year since the 80s (and certainly the 90s), and the "left" following them to the right up until the last decade or less.

    So a statement like this really calls into question your ability to observe the world around you.



    According to Pew, the right has barely moved at all while the left has shifted dramatically.http://www.people-press.org/interact...ion-1994-2017/
    Maybe if you looked at the data you yourself provided, you'd see the right wing in this country going off the deep end between 2004 and 2011 which pretty much follows my observation of when they started saying things like "liberalism is a mental disorder" and printing pamphlets with crosshairs over democrat politicians, or did you mean some other, less asshole right wing?
    Look at the 1994. Then look at 2017.

    Democrats: Start in the center, run way to the left.
    Republicans: start off just right of center, then lean on their right foot a little harder. But they honestly haven't really moved much.

    There was another chart that showed that the last significant move to the right occured in 2009, and they haven't moved again really since. I think that was Brookings, but I can't find it.

    Every chart you find proves the left has lurched way way to the left and the right is still in the same general area they've been in for forever.

    But sure, ignore your favorite side's part of the chart.
    You mean the bit where the Democrats dropped their southern past and the republicans embraced it, or am I reading that wrong?
    Three times today I've been softly accused of being racist.

    I believe it's racist to tell people they can't achieve in a country where a left think tank (Brookings) says if you graduate high school, get a job and keep it, and don't get a woman pregnant outside of marriage, you won't be poor forever. The intersectional left says that belief makes me racist.

    You guys here are almost all of the significant left. Those here who weren't mostly fled a long time ago. I recently got infracted on a pro-republican forum for being a leftist. Some libertarians call me a statist.

    Where the fuck is the nuance? Where the fuck is the assumption of honest contact? I actually said something about this here months ago and then gave up. I want honest conversation. I really do. Sometimes my thoughts may not come out perfectly, but for fucks sake I'm human. Ask me to clarify instead of assuming intent.

    About the only good thing I can say is you haven't banned me yet. But this is an Eve forum, which means you're 'griefing' me for the funsies.

    How about we all turn the language down and talk. I'd love that.
    Last edited by SSgtSniper; December 3 2018 at 03:05:58 AM.
    A critical exception has occurred. The exception is FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

  3. #56243
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    Oh look. My bullshit meter was right once again and what he started as pretend polite debate ended in incoherent right wing dribble. Who would have thunk it.
    Last edited by Isyel; December 3 2018 at 04:39:45 AM.

  4. #56244
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    >A wild Stormfront SSgt Tortoise Sniper reappears

  5. #56245
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Steckersaurus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post

    Actually the right is sitting precisely where it has been for twenty years. The left keeps running off further into the distance though, for most of my adult life.
    Your account says 2011. That suggests that you are more than 3 years old. You should have been around to witness the right going farther right every year since the 80s (and certainly the 90s), and the "left" following them to the right up until the last decade or less.

    So a statement like this really calls into question your ability to observe the world around you.



    According to Pew, the right has barely moved at all while the left has shifted dramatically.http://www.people-press.org/interact...ion-1994-2017/
    Maybe if you looked at the data you yourself provided, you'd see the right wing in this country going off the deep end between 2004 and 2011 which pretty much follows my observation of when they started saying things like "liberalism is a mental disorder" and printing pamphlets with crosshairs over democrat politicians, or did you mean some other, less asshole right wing?
    Look at the 1994. Then look at 2017.

    Democrats: Start in the center, run way to the left.
    Republicans: start off just right of center, then lean on their right foot a little harder. But they honestly haven't really moved much.

    There was another chart that showed that the last significant move to the right occured in 2009, and they haven't moved again really since. I think that was Brookings, but I can't find it.

    Every chart you find proves the left has lurched way way to the left and the right is still in the same general area they've been in for forever.

    But sure, ignore your favorite side's part of the chart.
    You mean the bit where the Democrats dropped their southern past and the republicans embraced it, or am I reading that wrong?
    Three times today I've been softly accused of being racist.

    I believe it's racist to tell people they can't achieve in a country where a left think tank (Brookings) says if you graduate high school, get a job and keep it, and don't get a woman pregnant outside of marriage, you won't be poor forever. The intersectional left says that belief makes me racist.

    You guys here are almost all of the significant left. Those here who weren't mostly fled a long time ago. I recently got infracted on a pro-republican forum for being a leftist. Some libertarians call me a statist.

    Where the fuck is the nuance? Where the fuck is the assumption of honest contact? I actually said something about this here months ago and then gave up. I want honest conversation. I really do. Sometimes my thoughts may not come out perfectly, but for fucks sake I'm human. Ask me to clarify instead of assuming intent.

    About the only good thing I can say is you haven't banned me yet. But this is an Eve forum, which means you're 'griefing' me for the funsies.

    How about we all turn the language down and talk. I'd love that.
    I'm not accusing you of anything. I simply said (by that) I can see how it might look like the Democrats are moving left, if they aren't actively, like, advancing a self professed Illinois Nazi, and other racist faggots like Cory Stewart, among others, to office.
    meh

  6. #56246
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    Three times today I've been softly accused of being racist.

    I believe it's racist to tell people they can't achieve in a country where a left think tank (Brookings) says if you graduate high school, get a job and keep it, and don't get a woman pregnant outside of marriage, you won't be poor forever. The intersectional left says that belief makes me racist.
    Are you confusing racism with classism?
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
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    WTF I hate white people now...
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  7. #56247
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post

    We haven't had capitalism in the United States itself in a very long time.
    I’d just like to revisit this. Are you saying that in your view the USA needs to be more capitalist in order to improve?

  8. #56248
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    While I don't agree on any of SSgtSniper's political views I do agree with him when he points out the echo chamber here. This is not me indicating where I stand on this as a mod btw, just throwing it out there. I know a lot of you aren't interested in trying to have a convincing discussion with someone you believe won't change their mind even if the truth where plastered to their ass, but reading the knee jerk reaction and stream of neverending insults isn't exactly refreshing either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    >A wild Stormfront SSgt Tortoise Sniper reappears

  9. #56249
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    What am I mixing him up with someone else ?

  10. #56250
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    What am I mixing him up with someone else ?
    Don't know. What's the reason for bringing stormfront into this? He registered back in 2011, so I might have missed some history and context here? I only vaguely remember his username from somewhere but I can't seem to recall him actually being literaly hitler
    Last edited by helgur; December 3 2018 at 06:35:32 AM.

  11. #56251
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    The right wing redneck that shot turtles in his backyard - I thought that was him ?

  12. #56252
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    The right wing redneck that shot turtles in his backyard - I thought that was him ?
    Stormfront, rednecks, turtle backyard executions?


  13. #56253
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    The right wing redneck that shot turtles in his backyard - I thought that was him ?
    Stormfront, rednecks, turtle backyard executions?

    FHC has a lot of history. :P

  14. #56254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Caine View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post

    We haven't had capitalism in the United States itself in a very long time.
    I’d just like to revisit this. Are you saying that in your view the USA needs to be more capitalist in order to improve?
    Real capitalism has never been tried!

    I fully expect some incoherent rhetoric about how perfect competition and everyone acting in their own self interest will lead to an equilibrium of guaranteed optimal results for both society and capital.

    So I imagine he is someone who has no idea how capital actually operates and seeks optimal values for capital outcomes which would have meant his mates jobs would have been lost several decades ago without being propped up by manufacturing subsidy and a redistribution of wealth to flyover manufacturing states. Although no doubt he will suggest that wouldn't have happened if we used real money like gold which the fed cant devalue like the monetarists were right about all along.

    Of course in this version of capitalism he wants to see the workers will operate in a perfect labour market, where they will be able to switch jobs seamlessly as soon as they aren't paid their market rate (there's no profit extraction by capital owners here, economic output IsNt a ZeRO SuM GaMe).

    I mean, I get the need to desire a future where you have more control over your destiny, that doesn't come by naively hoping capitalists will treat you fairly because you can use a toolbox. That comes from democratically owning the means of production and having a proper stake in the local community and the economic activity which sustains it.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  15. #56255
    Djan Seriy Anaplian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    While I don't agree on any of SSgtSniper's political views I do agree with him when he points out the echo chamber here. This is not me indicating where I stand on this as a mod btw, just throwing it out there. I know a lot of you aren't interested in trying to have a convincing discussion with someone you believe won't change their mind even if the truth where plastered to their ass, but reading the knee jerk reaction and stream of neverending insults isn't exactly refreshing either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    >A wild Stormfront SSgt Tortoise Sniper reappears
    Qft

  16. #56256
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    The right wing redneck that shot turtles in his backyard - I thought that was him ?
    Stormfront, rednecks, turtle backyard executions?

    Literally every page of this thread is like that for me. I have no idea if I'm just being trolled by trolls trolling trolls or if everyone is really as dumb as they are posting..
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  17. #56257
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    More turbo-lightspeed neoliberal platitudes/virtue signaling/misplaced priorities on full display.
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    To be honest I wasn't expecting this thread to get any better, but I'm going to take it as a birthday present nonetheless

    (welp, closer to 30 than 20 now)

  18. #56258
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post

    Except Steven Pinker even says that Capitalism has done more to raise people's standard of living than any other system ever.
    Yeah it did a great job of raising the living standards in the East where it created a middle class in India and China over the past 30 years. That middle class was created off the back of manufacturing being relocated from your backyard to their back yard, giving them a rise in blue collar jobs. Your blue collar workers got laid off when their factories closed because they were too costly and ate into profit margins.

    American white collar workers in the finance and banking industries who facilitated the relocation of capital required to set up global manufacturing chains made a pretty penny from it all. Capitalism was looking for the most efficient allocation of resources, that efficiency came by lowering labour costs by finding a population who could tolerate greater wage theft due to their existing material conditions. There is no form of libertarian capitalism which would have prevented that because that is capitalism working as intended. Maximising profit and optimising allocation of capital regardless of the human cost on the small scale. Finance capitalism is a strange perversion of market forces which concentrates wealth by its very nature (even when it isn't beneficial to short, medium or long term capital allocation), but without it capital is static and growth is systemically necessary for capitalism to function.

    You are not going to find your way out of poverty through pure capitalism because capital will always be more mobile than you are. It has no friends, family, community ties or nostalgic preference for one part of the world over another. It can and will move to a shithole in order to increase margins and reduce costs.

    The tendency to create the world market is directly given in the concept of capital itself. Every limit appears as a barrier to be overcome [...] Capital drives beyond national barriers and prejudices as much as beyond nature worship, as well as all traditional, confined, complacent, encrusted satisfactions of present needs, and reproductions of old ways of life. It is destructive towards all of this, and constantly revolutionizes it, tearing down all the barriers which hem in the development of the forces of production, the expansion of needs, the all-sided development of production, and the exploitation and exchange of natural and mental forces.
    You may find this quote fairly relatable. I'll let you discover the source.
    Look, the wages you withheld from the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of Hosts. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves for slaughter.

  19. #56259

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    Jebus! Take a weekend off, Sniper comes back, and the shit hits the fan!

    For the record: I'm with him on one thing: the name calling/trolling/etc., simply because you don't like what he says, should go.

    I remember Sniper from the olden days. When he always stood up for gun rights and authority (police etc.). I disagreed with him on almost everything, but to his credit he always tried to back it up with something, even if I thought it never held up to scrutiny. But perhaps that wasn't the point: it's the interaction, the discussion, that counts. Perhaps now more than ever.

    Remember when Alistair fist showed up? Died in the wool Republican (though he denied it) with all the talking points. We stuck up with him, and he stuck up with us, and look at him now? He sounds almost sane. Well, most of the time. Progress.

    All it takes is to keep an open mind, a lot of patience, and a boatload of constructive dialogue. Incessant trolling and name-calling just creates more (of an) echo chamber, and more division. (And I know full well I joined in on that as well at times, I'm no saint.).

    Maybe I've softened in old age. Or maybe it's Trump in the white house and Brexit in the UK, and me realising that I apparently have no clue what half of the voting public is actually on about, and why they believe/vote the way they do (it really doesn't make a lot of sense to me sometimes).

    What I do know is that all that divisiveness isn't doing anyone any favours. And that if we want to get anything done, anywhere, the first thing we need to do is listen to each other, start talking to each other, and through that bring people back from the lunatic fringes. Reasoned constructive debate, based on actual fact, does that. Perpetual shouting and taunting from the parapet does not.

    So, as an opener: Sniper; you said that the 2nd amendment protects the 1st amendment. Looking at, for example, the UK and Europe, I see free speech everywhere, yet no 2nd amendment rights to guns (in fact, generally, strict gun control; certainly compared to the US). So I don't see how this adds up. Can you explain why you believe it does?

  20. #56260

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    This ...

    Quote Originally Posted by SSgtSniper View Post
    Friendly reminder the CDC got caught faking gun stats and that's how they got banned from the subject.
    ... is something completely different than that ...

    There was a very good reason for the gun violence research funding ban. Virtually all of the scores of CDC-funded firearms studies conducted since 1985 had reached conclusions favoring stricter gun control. This should have come as no surprise, given that ever since 1979, the official goal of the CDC’s parent agency, the U.S. Public Health Service, had been “…to reduce the number of handguns in private ownership”, starting with a 25% reduction by the turn of the century.”

    Forbes, Feb 2013

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