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Thread: US Politics Thread

  1. #59441
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jori McKie View Post
    Trump declares national emergency
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/u...ncy-trump.html

    coming soon... wait..... reality???
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Siege_(1998_film)
    “We’re going to confront the national security crisis on our southern border and we’re going to do it one way or the other,” he said. “It’s an invasion,” he added. “We have an invasion of drugs and criminals coming into our country.”
    Sure, an 'invasion'. That'll certainly hold up in court .

    The declaration will enable Mr. Trump to divert $3.6 billion budgeted for military construction projects to the border wall, White House officials said. Mr. Trump will also use more traditional presidential budgetary discretion to tap $2.5 billion from counternarcotics programs and $600 million from a Treasury Department asset forfeiture fund.

    Combined with the $1.375 billion authorized for fencing in a spending package passed by Congress on Thursday night, Mr. Trump would then have about $8 billion in all to advance construction of new barriers and repairs or replacement of existing barriers along the border this year, significantly more than the $5.7 billion that Congress refused to give him.
    So he'll weaken the military, raid counternarcotics, and drain the Treasury's piggy bank. To stop an 'invasion of drugs and criminals'. With a wall. That won't work. Yup, totally logical. SCOTUS will certainly not question that!

    Presidents have declared national emergencies under a 1970s-era law 58 times and 31 of those emergencies remain active. But most of them dealt with foreign crises and involved freezing property or taking other actions against national adversaries, not redirecting money without explicit congressional authorization.

    White House officials cited only two times that such emergency declarations were used by presidents to spend money without legislative approval — once by President George Bush in November 1990 during the run-up to the Persian Gulf War and again by his son, President George W. Bush, in November 2001 after the terrorist attacks on New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

    In both of those cases, the presidents were responding to new events — the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and Al Qaeda’s assault on America — and were moving military money around to use for military purposes. Neither was taking action specifically rejected by Congress.
    OK, so basically nothing like the previous emergency declarations, not even those from the Bush presidencies.

    Ofcourse Trump can declare the wall to be a military project now. Shame about posse comitates then ... Ohh wait ...

    Good that the Democrats are going for a law through congress though. That'll flush out the Republicans to declare. Maybe even force a Trump veto. While all this will still be shot down before the bench.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  2. #59442
    Lowa [NSN]'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    *squirt*

    *honk*
    Are you in fact a pooping goose? If so, are you typing with your feet or beak?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarminic View Post
    I would create a dragon made out of vaginas. Then I would create a dragon made out of dicks. Then I would have them fight to the death.

  3. #59443
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    "It's not a coup if we're removing someone we hate."
    "It's not a coup if we're removing someone using legally sound methods"

    Pretty sure a coup requires the use of illegitimate means to replace a leader, ie using illegal force to remove a leader in a democracy.
    And I'm the one supposed to be a clown.

    Godel's incompleteness theorem makes pretty clear that you can never, even in the context of formal logic, design a complete and consistent system. So even in the most ideal legal framework designed by a post-singularity AI you'd still be able to theoretically find ways to subvert it.

    We're not talking about such a system, this is 21st century american politics.

    If you hate Trump; it was a reasonable attempt to keep a dangerous man from gaining power.

    If you love Trump; it was a coup attempt, and the only reason we can't call it treason is we're not officially at war.

    *squirt*

    *honk*
    Ehhh, I don't think you get Godel's incompleteness theorem. It does not exclude the possibility of designing a complete and consistent system, as long as the number of possible states of the system is countable/finite.

    Seriously, we design system like this all the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  4. #59444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    *squirt*

    *honk*
    Ehhh, I don't think you get Godel's incompleteness theorem. It does not exclude the possibility of designing a complete and consistent system, as long as the number of possible states of the system is countable/finite.

    Seriously, we design system like this all the time.
    Have an abacus, start counting the possible states of a political and legal system created by humans.

  5. #59445
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    *squirt*

    *honk*
    Ehhh, I don't think you get Godel's incompleteness theorem. It does not exclude the possibility of designing a complete and consistent system, as long as the number of possible states of the system is countable/finite.

    Seriously, we design system like this all the time.
    Have an abacus, start counting the possible states of a political and legal system created by humans.
    >still believing human legal and political systems have much to do with logic or reason

  6. #59446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Right, but the person who loves trump is wrong, because words have meanings.
    Love is never wrong.

    Unless you can prove true love is meaningless.

  7. #59447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    *squirt*

    *honk*
    Ehhh, I don't think you get Godel's incompleteness theorem. It does not exclude the possibility of designing a complete and consistent system, as long as the number of possible states of the system is countable/finite.

    Seriously, we design system like this all the time.
    Have an abacus, start counting the possible states of a political and legal system created by humans.
    >still believing human legal and political systems have much to do with logic or reason
    Exactly, which is why you can never call a coup objectively legitimate or illegitimate.

  8. #59448

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    *squirt*

    *honk*
    Ehhh, I don't think you get Godel's incompleteness theorem. It does not exclude the possibility of designing a complete and consistent system, as long as the number of possible states of the system is countable/finite.

    Seriously, we design system like this all the time.
    Have an abacus, start counting the possible states of a political and legal system created by humans.
    >still believing human legal and political systems have much to do with logic or reason
    Exactly, which is why you can never call a coup objectively legitimate or illegitimate.
    Riiiight, words have no meaning. Off to the ignore list you go.

  9. #59449
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    *squirt*

    *honk*
    Ehhh, I don't think you get Godel's incompleteness theorem. It does not exclude the possibility of designing a complete and consistent system, as long as the number of possible states of the system is countable/finite.

    Seriously, we design system like this all the time.
    Have an abacus, start counting the possible states of a political and legal system created by humans.
    >still believing human legal and political systems have much to do with logic or reason
    Exactly, which is why you can never call a coup objectively legitimate or illegitimate.
    “Legitimate coup” is an oxymoron.

  10. #59450
    walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    "It's not a coup if we're removing someone we hate."
    "It's not a coup if we're removing someone using legally sound methods"

    Pretty sure a coup requires the use of illegitimate means to replace a leader, ie using illegal force to remove a leader in a democracy.
    And I'm the one supposed to be a clown.

    Godel's incompleteness theorem makes pretty clear that you can never, even in the context of formal logic, design a complete and consistent system. So even in the most ideal legal framework designed by a post-singularity AI you'd still be able to theoretically find ways to subvert it.

    We're not talking about such a system, this is 21st century american politics.

    If you hate Trump; it was a reasonable attempt to keep a dangerous man from gaining power.

    If you love Trump; it was a coup attempt, and the only reason we can't call it treason is we're not officially at war.

    *squirt*

    *honk*
    So, you're a clown with Asperger's?
      Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    But islamism IS a product of class warfare. Rich white countries come into developing brown dictatorships, wreck the leadership, infrastructure and economy and then act all surprised that religious fanaticism is on the rise.
    Also:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    walrus isnt a bad poster.
    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    also i like walrus.
    Quote Originally Posted by AmaNutin View Post
    Yer a hoot

  11. #59451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan Dax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Exactly, which is why you can never call a coup objectively legitimate or illegitimate.
    Riiiight, words have no meaning. Off to the ignore list you go.
    Only a clown deals in absolutes.

    And my words above had much meaning, very precise meaning.

    They do not however, nor can they ever have, complete and consistent meaning. Nor can they ever be objective, it is in the very nature of formal logic that they cannot.

    We can however find words useful, and useful they are until someone decides to deal in absolutes.

    1) it cannot be a coup if it follows the law
    2) make all the actions required for the coup to work legal
    3) ...
    4) profit

    Normal humans will still call it a coup.

  12. #59452
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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    "It's not a coup if we're removing someone we hate."
    "It's not a coup if we're removing someone using legally sound methods"

    Pretty sure a coup requires the use of illegitimate means to replace a leader, ie using illegal force to remove a leader in a democracy.
    And I'm the one supposed to be a clown.

    Godel's incompleteness theorem makes pretty clear that you can never, even in the context of formal logic, design a complete and consistent system. So even in the most ideal legal framework designed by a post-singularity AI you'd still be able to theoretically find ways to subvert it.

    We're not talking about such a system, this is 21st century american politics.

    If you hate Trump; it was a reasonable attempt to keep a dangerous man from gaining power.

    If you love Trump; it was a coup attempt, and the only reason we can't call it treason is we're not officially at war.

    *squirt*

    *honk*
    So, you're a clown with Asperger's?
    In a pyramid being nazis over the definition of 'coup'.

  13. #59453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Honk Honkler View Post
    "It's not a coup if we're removing someone we hate."
    "It's not a coup if we're removing someone using legally sound methods"

    Pretty sure a coup requires the use of illegitimate means to replace a leader, ie using illegal force to remove a leader in a democracy.
    And I'm the one supposed to be a clown.

    Godel's incompleteness theorem makes pretty clear that you can never, even in the context of formal logic, design a complete and consistent system. So even in the most ideal legal framework designed by a post-singularity AI you'd still be able to theoretically find ways to subvert it.

    We're not talking about such a system, this is 21st century american politics.

    If you hate Trump; it was a reasonable attempt to keep a dangerous man from gaining power.

    If you love Trump; it was a coup attempt, and the only reason we can't call it treason is we're not officially at war.

    *squirt*

    *honk*
    So, you're a clown with Asperger's?
    In a pyramid being nazis over the definition of 'coup'.
    And yes, yes I am.

  14. #59454
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Pls to go back to /pol/.

  15. #59455
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Pls to go back to Romania.
    ftfy
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  16. #59456
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Pls to go back to Romania.
    ftfy
    Aren’t they the same thing?

  17. #59457
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    I shared a house with a lovely couple from Romania a few years ago. So no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  18. #59458
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    I shared a house with a lovely couple from Romania a few years ago. So no.

    Yes but did you check their browser history?

  19. #59459
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    I shared a house with a lovely couple from Romania a few years ago. So no.

    Yes but did you check their browser history?
    They spent too much time stealing jobs (ie: working every fucking hour in the day) to shit about on the internet
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  20. #59460
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    So what makes you think our interloper is Romanian?

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