hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 1769 of 2462 FirstFirst ... 769126916691719175917661767176817691770177117721779181918692269 ... LastLast
Results 35,361 to 35,380 of 49224

Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #35361
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    1,698
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.

    Example:

    The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.

    Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.

    We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
    Apologies for quoting three pages ago (since I wasn't here for the extended discussion of me), but a few things.

    1. Thank you.

    2. I would like to clarify (perhaps) your presentation of my position in some ways I'd like to comment on:

    I agree that the primary purpose of prisons is to protect the public from those who would inflict harm upon them. I don't agree at all with the "as miserable as possible" portion, but neither should it be pleasant or comfortable life.

    I agree that the primary purpose of prison is to punish an individual for the harm they caused on the innocent.

    I would agree that a secondary purpose is to rehabilitate or reform individuals who can be, so then when their time is served, they can safely and successfully rejoin society.

    I would add that our prisons and criminal justice system here in the U.S. is seriously flawed: First, we incarcerate vastly too many non-violent and/or drug offenders who more appropriately belong in medical treatment. Second, we do not incarcerate murderers, rapists and white collar criminals (who often harm thousands or millions of people) near on long enough.

    And of course, the race issue and education issues must be addressed in criminal justice reform. Equal treatment for all, education for all.

    I believe we could find a reasonable position to agree on on this issue.
    Fun fact. America has more people in prison than the USSR gulag at its height!
    To be fair, US prisons have a markedly lower incidence of mortality than Soviet gulags.

  2. #35362
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18, 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    4,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    To be fair, US prisons have a markedly lower incidence of mortality than Soviet gulags.
    Letting your prisoners die loses income for private prisons, plus lots of paper work and potential law suits and such.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  3. #35363
    Phrixus Zephyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    Queenstown, NZ
    Posts
    3,415
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
      Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.

    Example:

    The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.

    Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.

    We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
    Apologies for quoting three pages ago (since I wasn't here for the extended discussion of me), but a few things.

    1. Thank you.

    2. I would like to clarify (perhaps) your presentation of my position in some ways I'd like to comment on:

    I agree that the primary purpose of prisons is to protect the public from those who would inflict harm upon them. I don't agree at all with the "as miserable as possible" portion, but neither should it be pleasant or comfortable life.

    I agree that the primary purpose of prison is to punish an individual for the harm they caused on the innocent.

    I would agree that a secondary purpose is to rehabilitate or reform individuals who can be, so then when their time is served, they can safely and successfully rejoin society.

    I would add that our prisons and criminal justice system here in the U.S. is seriously flawed: First, we incarcerate vastly too many non-violent and/or drug offenders who more appropriately belong in medical treatment. Second, we do not incarcerate murderers, rapists and white collar criminals (who often harm thousands or millions of people) near on long enough.

    And of course, the race issue and education issues must be addressed in criminal justice reform. Equal treatment for all, education for all.

    I believe we could find a reasonable position to agree on on this issue.


    Fun fact. America has more people in prison than the USSR gulag at its height!
    To be fair, US prisons have a markedly lower incidence of mortality than Soviet gulags.
    Yeah, US cops usually kill you before you ever get to prison.
    Last edited by Phrixus Zephyr; July 17 2017 at 10:40:18 PM.

  4. #35364
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    Bonding around
    Posts
    18,428
    I have some respect for trump apologists.. They have to try fucking hard and he doesn't make it easy for them. It's a real struggle they are under and they don't give up... Well, until they do.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  5. #35365
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 20, 2011
    Posts
    7,371
    Actually an '06.

    EVE: OrangeAfroMan
    Dust514: Andrelommech
    WoT: NorthernNomad
    MWO: Loren Ward

    www.twitch.tv/oameve

  6. #35366

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    9,565
    Looks like "Repeal Obamacare" bill is dead in the Senate, because it's not repealing Obamacare hard enough.

    Two more Senate Republicans have declared their opposition to the latest effort to overhaul the nation’s health-care system, leaving the measure without sufficient support to pass and potentially ending a months-long effort to make good on a longstanding GOP campaign promise.

    Senator Moran (R-Kan.) said the bill “fails to repeal the Affordable Care Act or address healthcare’s rising costs.”
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...e83_story.html

  7. #35367
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 20, 2011
    Posts
    7,371
    Hahahaha. Seven years to prepare and full government control and they can't pass a fucking bill
    Actually an '06.

    EVE: OrangeAfroMan
    Dust514: Andrelommech
    WoT: NorthernNomad
    MWO: Loren Ward

    www.twitch.tv/oameve

  8. #35368
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 20, 2011
    Location
    Egghelende
    Posts
    1,698
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    What makes you think he'll comply with the order?

  9. #35369

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    9,565
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    Hahahaha. Seven years to prepare and full government control and they can't pass a fucking bill
    > implying Republicans run for office to pass bills. This sets them up nicely for 2018, to run against Obamacare. Again.

  10. #35370
    OrangeAfroMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 20, 2011
    Posts
    7,371
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    What makes you think he'll comply with the order?
    The secret service is doing the releasing
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    Hahahaha. Seven years to prepare and full government control and they can't pass a fucking bill
    > implying Republicans run for office to pass bills. This sets them up nicely for 2018, to run against Obamacare. Again.
    Haha, good point!
    Actually an '06.

    EVE: OrangeAfroMan
    Dust514: Andrelommech
    WoT: NorthernNomad
    MWO: Loren Ward

    www.twitch.tv/oameve

  11. #35371
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    8,983
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    What makes you think he'll comply with the order?
    The secret service is doing the releasing
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAfroMan View Post
    Hahahaha. Seven years to prepare and full government control and they can't pass a fucking bill
    > implying Republicans run for office to pass bills. This sets them up nicely for 2018, to run against Obamacare. Again.
    Haha, good point!
    Ah, but a majority of Americans now like Obamacare. Democrats just need to get loud and demand a vote on the bill as-is, then paint the Republicans as weak for not allowing it. I see "bait-and-switch" and "flip-flopper" becoming campaign phrases.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  12. #35372

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    9,565
    Now McConnell says that Senate will vote to simply repeal Obamacare, without anything to replace it.

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Monday night called for a vote on a bill to repeal Obamacare without an immediate replacement after the latest Republican effort to overhaul the U.S. health-care system failed.
    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/presi...ment-plan.html

  13. #35373
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 18, 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    4,825
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Now McConnell says that Senate will vote to simply repeal Obamacare, without anything to replace it.

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Monday night called for a vote on a bill to repeal Obamacare without an immediate replacement after the latest Republican effort to overhaul the U.S. health-care system failed.
    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/17/presi...ment-plan.html
    Fucking idiots. Glad I got my hernia surgery last year.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  14. #35374
    Movember 2012 I Legionnaire's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    1,681
    This was the plan all along.

  15. #35375
    Frug's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    13,814
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    I have some respect for trump apologists.. They have to try fucking hard and he doesn't make it easy for them. It's a real struggle they are under and they don't give up... Well, until they do.
    I'm finding that over the past few weeks I'm hating Trump less, and finding the rage of the left at his existence tiresome and pathetic. I think it's getting easier for people to be an apologist for him. The non-stop outrage has become noise.

    When the economy doesn't get better though, because his promises of magic beans are unlikely to result in much value, they'll have a hard time explaining that other than to blame republicans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  16. #35376
    Banned
    Join Date
    April 18, 2011
    Location
    Only one here to predict a win for God Emperor
    Posts
    12,463
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ralara View Post



    Watch T_D, Conspiracy etc over the next few hours. The narrative is going to change. Let's watch it in real time. Now he's admitted it and it's a GOOD THING! then the "there's 0% chance it happened" crew are about to do not only a 180 on whether he did it or not, but they're gonna up on the Z axis 90 degrees as well on the "now it's good" aspect.

    Watch twitter. Watch the bots. Watch facebook. Watch the memes on 9gag. 4chan. etc.

    Watch now as suddenly the narrative is changed.
    The doublethink is strong with hard-core Trumpers.
    President and junior has been saying it was for opponent research since day 2, yet we are the ones who doublethink?

    And the meeting was about adoption policy, which was why they stopped it early.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  17. #35377
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 24, 2011
    Location
    Putting owls in your Moss
    Posts
    8,919
    You're right. Doublethink might be a bad choice of word, since it implies any thinking was involved

  18. #35378
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
    Join Date
    March 7, 2012
    Posts
    21,069
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You're right. Doublethink might be a bad choice of word, since it implies any thinking was involved
    No, you're not doing it right.

  19. #35379
    Banned
    Join Date
    April 18, 2011
    Location
    Only one here to predict a win for God Emperor
    Posts
    12,463
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    You're right. Doublethink might be a bad choice of word, since it implies any thinking was involved
    No, you're not doing it right.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  20. #35380
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Posts
    17,654
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Fun fact. America has more people in prison than the USSR gulag at its height!
    Fun fact. That's solely because "prisoners" in the gulags had a very unfortunate tendency to die within 12 months of arriving.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •