
Originally Posted by
Nicholai Pestot
Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.
Example:
The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.
Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.
We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.
You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
Apologies for quoting three pages ago (since I wasn't here for the extended discussion of me), but a few things.
1. Thank you.
2. I would like to clarify (perhaps) your presentation of my position in some ways I'd like to comment on:
I agree that the primary purpose of prisons is to protect the public from those who would inflict harm upon them. I don't agree at all with the "as miserable as possible" portion, but neither should it be pleasant or comfortable life.
I agree that the primary purpose of prison is to punish an individual for the harm they caused on the innocent.
I would agree that a secondary purpose is to rehabilitate or reform individuals who can be, so then when their time is served, they can safely and successfully rejoin society.
I would add that our prisons and criminal justice system here in the U.S. is seriously flawed: First, we incarcerate vastly too many non-violent and/or drug offenders who more appropriately belong in medical treatment. Second, we do not incarcerate murderers, rapists and white collar criminals (who often harm thousands or millions of people) near on long enough.
And of course, the race issue and education issues must be addressed in criminal justice reform. Equal treatment for all, education for all.
I believe we could find a reasonable position to agree on on this issue.
Bookmarks