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Thread: USA Politics Thread

  1. #35301
    Keckers's Avatar
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    He's basically just a crazy old man tilting at donkey shaped windmills.

    Probably still believes America is democratic as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  2. #35302

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    Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.

    Example:

    The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.

    Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.

    We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.

  3. #35303
    Smuggo
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    I think some folks mistake thinking that Hillary was a bad candidate with approval of Trump.


    Bernie would have won.

  4. #35304

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I think some folks mistake thinking that Hillary was a bad candidate with approval of Trump.


    Bernie would have won.
    The most concise counter-argument i can make to that is "haha no, fuck off".

    You may be viewing the issue through euro-centric glasses, where social-democratic gov's are quite common and the hard left captures a good portion of the protest vote. That doesnt happen in the states, for a variety of reasons that are deeply rooted in its cultural history, outside a select few (California et al) that were always going to go to the dem. side in the electoral college.
    The other argument is that we never saw the full might of the right-wing media turn on him, so would have could have scenarios are disingenuous.

    Bernie wins battles he doesnt need to fight, and loses the ones he needs to win but never was going to.

  5. #35305
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I think some folks mistake thinking that Hillary was a bad candidate with approval of Trump.


    Bernie would have won.
    Bernie would have been barbecued under the same *fake news* smear campaign republicans have successfully run since john kerry was a candidate.

    He was a terrible candidate in to 2016 and in reality, he wasn't running to win the last election, but to become relevant in the next.

  6. #35306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I think some folks mistake thinking that Hillary was a bad candidate with approval of Trump.


    Bernie would have won.
    Hahahahaha

    Hahaa ha

    Oh wow


  7. #35307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I think some folks mistake thinking that Hillary was a bad candidate with approval of Trump.


    Bernie would have won.
    Bernie would have been barbecued under the same *fake news* smear campaign republicans have successfully run since john kerry was a candidate.

    He was a terrible candidate in to 2016 and in reality, he wasn't running to win the last election, but to become relevant in the next.
    Actuary tables.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  8. #35308

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smarnca View Post
    CNN video shows Trump and Russian associates meeting in 2013
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-1...a-saga/8704886

    These guys are fucking retarded. This is how you spread fake news.
    It's a video of Trump so not exactly fake is it...
    You mean he met with people years before he even planned on running for office? IMPEACH DRUMPF NOW
    Given the way US presidential elections work and the money and organisation required I imagine he would have been contemplating it at that point or even earlier.

    Also bringing up his past dodgy relations with Russian businessmen and officials is entirely justified given his current dodgy relations with Russian businessmen and officials.

    Also doesn't make it fake news.
    except there are no dodgy relations with Russian businessmen. There are just retarded media stories that bring up their ratings among Hillary supporters. There is nothing else. Also we've been through this before
    Depens on how you define "dodgy", I guess. As a president you'd like to do as independent as possible - that's one of the tickets with which Trump rode towards his presidency ("Drain the swamp"), stating that he's rich enough to not have to rely on 3rd party donators, who may or may not ask for "favors" afterwards.

    I even agree with him on that topic.

    But than again he hasn't actually turned his business over to some indepentendly run/overseen trust, as presidents did before him. Yeah, not a legal requirement, but still a very good idea to do.

    Instead, he's still doing business and let his family run it. An Russian investors have heavily invested in Trump's properties. This is also nothing illegal.

    So, yes, not "dodgy" directly. But it seems worrisome that he might be financially ... erhm ... challengeable (is that a word)?

  9. #35309
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    "Look how easily, how wildly they succeeded." - Bullzee.

  10. #35310
    Keckers's Avatar
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    You can only become president in America if you pander relentlessly to capital interests. Their entire 'democratic' system is designed that way.

    http://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/d...litics.doc.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  11. #35311
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post

    "Look how easily, how wildly they succeeded." - Bullzee.
    They analyse situations through their moral lense and then write about how they see it.

  12. #35312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
    He's an ideological dinosaur who bases his entire world view on fallacious starting positions and an incapability to coherently argue from any fact based positions.

    He is one of the few feels before reals posters on this forum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  13. #35313
    THE PUNISHED
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post

    "Look how easily, how wildly they succeeded." - Bullzee.
    They analyse situations through their moral lense and then write about how they see it.
    I...

    wow, Quackers seems to have been upgraded since I last visited.

  14. #35314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post

    "Look how easily, how wildly they succeeded." - Bullzee.
    They analyse situations through their moral lense and then write about how they see it.
    I...

    wow, Quackers seems to have been upgraded since I last visited.
    Oh no

  15. #35315

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.

    Example:

    The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.

    Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.

    We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
    No, not at all. It's not the world view I have issues with, as much as I disagree with it.

    It's that he consistently misinterprets people's posts and willfully ignores the point to make his own, to an obnoxious level, more and more consistently than almost anyone else, then complains how people hate him. This is the real issue.

  16. #35316
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.

    Example:

    The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.

    Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.

    We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
    No, not at all. It's not the world view I have issues with, as much as I disagree with it.

    It's that he consistently misinterprets people's posts and willfully ignores the point to make his own, to an obnoxious level, more and more consistently than almost anyone else, then complains how people hate him. This is the real issue.
    It's basically me except without the awareness to figure out why people really dislike me

  17. #35317
    rufuske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.

    Example:

    The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.

    Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.

    We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
    No, not at all. It's not the world view I have issues with, as much as I disagree with it.

    It's that he consistently misinterprets people's posts and willfully ignores the point to make his own, to an obnoxious level, more and more consistently than almost anyone else, then complains how people hate him. This is the real issue.
    It's basically me except without the awareness to figure out why people really dislike me

  18. #35318

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    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.

    Example:

    The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.

    Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.

    We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
    No, not at all. It's not the world view I have issues with, as much as I disagree with it.

    It's that he consistently misinterprets people's posts and willfully ignores the point to make his own, to an obnoxious level, more and more consistently than almost anyone else, then complains how people hate him. This is the real issue.
    It's basically me except without the awareness to figure out why people really dislike me
    Yeah that's... i can't even with that post.


  19. #35319
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholai Pestot View Post
    Alistair is not dumb, he just has a fundamentally different world-view. Within that different world view his logic is sound.

    Example:

    The majority of us hold to the view that prison is primarily for protection of the public. With that goal we prioritise rehabilitation as a top goal because that reduces rates of re-offence, protecting the public over the long term.

    Alistair holds to the view that prison is primarily for punishment. With that goal he prioritises making prisoners as miserable as possible within the boundaries of the law, punishing more effectively.

    We and he can both build logically sound arguments upon these different fundamental premises and when we inevitably disagree each side thinks the other is creating straw-men, because we don't understand the basic view-point of the other.

    You should collectively value having Alistair here. He functions as a constant test of your arguments, ideology and beliefs and gives you a window into a different world view. Without him and others like him to argue with, you would end up in a protected little bubble of information as insular and divorced from reality as any Trump supporters.
    No, not at all. It's not the world view I have issues with, as much as I disagree with it.

    It's that he consistently misinterprets people's posts and willfully ignores the point to make his own, to an obnoxious level, more and more consistently than almost anyone else, then complains how people hate him. This is the real issue.
    It's basically me except without the awareness to figure out why people really dislike me
    Yeah that's... i can't even with that post.

    it's because I'm way too good at posting /s

  20. #35320
    THE PUNISHED
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    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post
    It's basically me except without the awareness to figure out why people really dislike me
    Yeah but he doesn't do it on purpose in order to get some kind... any kind of interaction with other people.

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