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Thread: The Questionably Fascist [USA Politics Thread]™

  1. #40241
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Keckers starring in a new erotic drama: 50 shades of exclusively black or white.
    I mean, if you think you can free market your way to universally improved living standards Ive got a bridge to make a vast profit on.

    Alistair calls himself a libertarian except for all the shit he wants government to start providing for American citizens.
    There's already a patchwork of programs that does all the things he mentions.

    The thing is that they are not particularly accessible or useful at the moment. Get rent assistance, get a job, immediately lose rent assistance and be further in the red than if you had no job. Pretty standard cycle that punishes the working poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I think an argument could be made to add that, aye. Basic internet/phone access.

    I continue to argue that addiction and abuse are medical conditions and should be treated thusly.

    Plenty of existing money in the Offense Budget to cover these costs tbqh. America first is a good ethic if done right, i.e. Serving the needs of American Citizens in need.
    I think interventionism should be on its way out. I definitely won't be voting for any candidate that advocates intervention, even on a humanitarian basis. People have just gotten extremely hostile to the idea of being world police when there's so much stuff that is broken right here
    Last edited by mewninn; September 13 2017 at 04:25:55 PM.

  2. #40242
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Keckers starring in a new erotic drama: 50 shades of exclusively black or white.
    I mean, if you think you can free market your way to universally improved living standards Ive got a bridge to make a vast profit on.

    Alistair calls himself a libertarian except for all the shit he wants government to start providing for American citizens.
    Except as we clearly see, it's materially better now, for people, than it has literally ever been in history. What exactly is it that you want?

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/218981/am...gn=syndication
    It's materially better for some people. If you work 12 hours a day making trainers until your fingers bleed in a warehouse that will fall over in a stiff breeze you would probably be happier subsistence farming in an agrarian community.

    We've progressed past the point of treating the advance of history as universally positive in every aspect, that died with the end of monarchic imperialism.
    Working 12 hours a day making trainers is better than working the same amount of time with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day.
    meh

  3. #40243
    Smuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Keckers starring in a new erotic drama: 50 shades of exclusively black or white.
    I mean, if you think you can free market your way to universally improved living standards Ive got a bridge to make a vast profit on.

    Alistair calls himself a libertarian except for all the shit he wants government to start providing for American citizens.
    Except as we clearly see, it's materially better now, for people, than it has literally ever been in history. What exactly is it that you want?

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/218981/am...gn=syndication
    It's materially better for some people. If you work 12 hours a day making trainers until your fingers bleed in a warehouse that will fall over in a stiff breeze you would probably be happier subsistence farming in an agrarian community.

    We've progressed past the point of treating the advance of history as universally positive in every aspect, that died with the end of monarchic imperialism.
    Working 12 hours a day making trainers is better than working the same amount of time with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day.
    In other news water is wet.

    What's your point though?



  4. #40244
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    I think interventionism should be on its way out. I definitely won't be voting for any candidate that advocates intervention, even on a humanitarian basis. People have just gotten extremely hostile to the idea of being world police when there's so much stuff that is broken right here
    I very much hope so.

    I'm not a supporter of Isolationism, the U.S. needs to be active in the global community, and involved in issues of global interest.

    But IMO the United Nations need to take the lead role in international disputes, especially in organizing and deploying for humanitarian missions.

    The U.S. needs to get out of the business of fighting Wars like Iraq, Afghanistan and the like. Yes, that comes with a risk of those nations harboring terrorism, but the U.S. needs to work through the international community to combat terrorism, not cowboy off and ineffectively "fight" it the way we've done the last decade+

    And, frankly, the expenditures on our military need materially cut back, funding focused on 1. Local Defense, 2. A Small BEF-style of deploy-able Elite Military, 3. Nuclear Deterrence and 4. Modernization/Technology innovation/superiority.

    But yes, the days of "U.S. World Police" absolutely must come to an end, and the global community needs to take over that role as/if needed.

    Personally, I also put a huge dent in international aid programs. That funding should be invested in our own people and infrastructure first and foremost, and not restored till we've addressed a number of our current rather massive deficiencies.


    "Nothing left to do, but smile, smile, smile......" Robert Hunter, "He's Gone"
    "...we looked very closely at the matter and concluded that unfortunately arseholes also get to benefit from democratic freedoms." Andreas Geisel, Interior Affairs Senator, Germany


  5. #40245
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Keckers starring in a new erotic drama: 50 shades of exclusively black or white.
    I mean, if you think you can free market your way to universally improved living standards Ive got a bridge to make a vast profit on.

    Alistair calls himself a libertarian except for all the shit he wants government to start providing for American citizens.
    Except as we clearly see, it's materially better now, for people, than it has literally ever been in history. What exactly is it that you want?

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/218981/am...gn=syndication
    It's materially better for some people. If you work 12 hours a day making trainers until your fingers bleed in a warehouse that will fall over in a stiff breeze you would probably be happier subsistence farming in an agrarian community.

    We've progressed past the point of treating the advance of history as universally positive in every aspect, that died with the end of monarchic imperialism.
    Working 12 hours a day making trainers is better than working the same amount of time with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day.
    In other news water is wet.

    What's your point though?
    Communism was the gun one.
    meh

  6. #40246
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Keckers starring in a new erotic drama: 50 shades of exclusively black or white.
    I mean, if you think you can free market your way to universally improved living standards Ive got a bridge to make a vast profit on.

    Alistair calls himself a libertarian except for all the shit he wants government to start providing for American citizens.
    Except as we clearly see, it's materially better now, for people, than it has literally ever been in history. What exactly is it that you want?

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/218981/am...gn=syndication
    It's materially better for some people. If you work 12 hours a day making trainers until your fingers bleed in a warehouse that will fall over in a stiff breeze you would probably be happier subsistence farming in an agrarian community.

    We've progressed past the point of treating the advance of history as universally positive in every aspect, that died with the end of monarchic imperialism.
    Working 12 hours a day making trainers is better than working the same amount of time with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day.
    In other news water is wet.

    What's your point though?
    Communism was the gun one.
    There's a middle way. Don't see why not a social democracy would work in the US. Sure you would have to divert some funds from your military industrial complex into social welfare programs, universal healthcare and education. But having a happier and safer society would also save you a lot of money.

  7. #40247
    Ski Boot Fortior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Keckers starring in a new erotic drama: 50 shades of exclusively black or white.
    I mean, if you think you can free market your way to universally improved living standards Ive got a bridge to make a vast profit on.

    Alistair calls himself a libertarian except for all the shit he wants government to start providing for American citizens.
    Except as we clearly see, it's materially better now, for people, than it has literally ever been in history. What exactly is it that you want?

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/218981/am...gn=syndication
    It's materially better for some people. If you work 12 hours a day making trainers until your fingers bleed in a warehouse that will fall over in a stiff breeze you would probably be happier subsistence farming in an agrarian community.

    We've progressed past the point of treating the advance of history as universally positive in every aspect, that died with the end of monarchic imperialism.
    Working 12 hours a day making trainers is better than working the same amount of time with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day.
    In other news water is wet.

    What's your point though?
    Communism was the gun one.
    There's a middle way. Don't see why not a social democracy would work in the US. Sure you would have to divert some funds from your military industrial complex into social welfare programs, universal healthcare and education. But having a happier and safer society would also save you a lot of money.
    Social democracy in the US? That sounds like...

      Spoiler:
    Real men pvp in barges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amantus View Post
    good to see that Fortior seems like a decent bloke and isn't a gay fat faggot nerd despite his pony avatar

  8. #40248

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Personally, I also put a huge dent in international aid programs. That funding should be invested in our own people and infrastructure first and foremost, and not restored till we've addressed a number of our current rather massive deficiencies.
    Disagree here. A stable world is better for America both from a safety standpoint and economically.

    Example: For the cost of a couple jet fighters we could be providing basic humanitarian needs for Syrian refugees in Jordan/Lebanon/Turkey. And the potential upsides are exponential. I'd rather ship billions of dollars of medical/food supplies over there stamped with Old Glory than a bunch of weaponry or airstrikes.

    We will not fight your civil wars for you anymore, but for civilians affected we can offer help with basic needs. America the protector/feeder instead of the country the buzzes the air with planes and drones.

  9. #40249
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Personally, I also put a huge dent in international aid programs. That funding should be invested in our own people and infrastructure first and foremost, and not restored till we've addressed a number of our current rather massive deficiencies.
    Disagree here. A stable world is better for America both from a safety standpoint and economically.

    Example: For the cost of a couple jet fighters we could be providing basic humanitarian needs for Syrian refugees in Jordan/Lebanon/Turkey. And the potential upsides are exponential. I'd rather ship billions of dollars of medical/food supplies over there stamped with Old Glory than a bunch of weaponry or airstrikes.

    We will not fight your civil wars for you anymore, but for civilians affected we can offer help with basic needs. America the protector/feeder instead of the country the buzzes the air with planes and drones.
    If Syria needs basic humanitarian help, that help should be managed by an international body (like the UN) and the funding should come from all member states.

    I don't disagree with you on help vs. bombings, but the mechanic matters as well. The U.S. uses aid as a cudgel to bribe enemy and non-aligned nations to be our friends, but money doesn't buy friendship.

    International Aid should be an International Program, supported and in concert with all the economically powerful and democratic nations of the Earth.


    "Nothing left to do, but smile, smile, smile......" Robert Hunter, "He's Gone"
    "...we looked very closely at the matter and concluded that unfortunately arseholes also get to benefit from democratic freedoms." Andreas Geisel, Interior Affairs Senator, Germany


  10. #40250
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Keckers starring in a new erotic drama: 50 shades of exclusively black or white.
    I mean, if you think you can free market your way to universally improved living standards Ive got a bridge to make a vast profit on.

    Alistair calls himself a libertarian except for all the shit he wants government to start providing for American citizens.
    Except as we clearly see, it's materially better now, for people, than it has literally ever been in history. What exactly is it that you want?

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/218981/am...gn=syndication
    It's materially better for some people. If you work 12 hours a day making trainers until your fingers bleed in a warehouse that will fall over in a stiff breeze you would probably be happier subsistence farming in an agrarian community.

    We've progressed past the point of treating the advance of history as universally positive in every aspect, that died with the end of monarchic imperialism.
    Working 12 hours a day making trainers is better than working the same amount of time with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day.
    In other news water is wet.

    What's your point though?
    Communism was the gun one.
    Oh yes? Where? Russia? East Germany? Cuba? Oh you mean Cambodia?

    Grow up.
    Будь смиренным, будь кротким, не заботься о тленном
    Власти, данной Богом, сынок, будь навеки верным...
    Я люблю Росcию, я - патриот

  11. #40251
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Keckers starring in a new erotic drama: 50 shades of exclusively black or white.
    I mean, if you think you can free market your way to universally improved living standards Ive got a bridge to make a vast profit on.

    Alistair calls himself a libertarian except for all the shit he wants government to start providing for American citizens.
    Except as we clearly see, it's materially better now, for people, than it has literally ever been in history. What exactly is it that you want?

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/218981/am...gn=syndication
    It's materially better for some people. If you work 12 hours a day making trainers until your fingers bleed in a warehouse that will fall over in a stiff breeze you would probably be happier subsistence farming in an agrarian community.

    We've progressed past the point of treating the advance of history as universally positive in every aspect, that died with the end of monarchic imperialism.
    Working 12 hours a day making trainers is better than working the same amount of time with a gun in your back for a bowl of rice a day.
    In other news water is wet.

    What's your point though?
    Communism was the gun one.
    Oh yes? Where? Russia? East Germany? Cuba? Oh you mean Cambodia?

    Grow up.
    Millions of people died in Russia, same as China. I'm sure there were bowls of rice in China, not so much in Russia (and especially not in the Ukraine ).
    meh

  12. #40252
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    I think interventionism should be on its way out. I definitely won't be voting for any candidate that advocates intervention, even on a humanitarian basis. People have just gotten extremely hostile to the idea of being world police when there's so much stuff that is broken right here
    I very much hope so.

    I'm not a supporter of Isolationism, the U.S. needs to be active in the global community, and involved in issues of global interest.

    But IMO the United Nations need to take the lead role in international disputes, especially in organizing and deploying for humanitarian missions.

    The U.S. needs to get out of the business of fighting Wars like Iraq, Afghanistan and the like. Yes, that comes with a risk of those nations harboring terrorism, but the U.S. needs to work through the international community to combat terrorism, not cowboy off and ineffectively "fight" it the way we've done the last decade+

    And, frankly, the expenditures on our military need materially cut back, funding focused on 1. Local Defense, 2. A Small BEF-style of deploy-able Elite Military, 3. Nuclear Deterrence and 4. Modernization/Technology innovation/superiority.

    But yes, the days of "U.S. World Police" absolutely must come to an end, and the global community needs to take over that role as/if needed.

    Personally, I also put a huge dent in international aid programs. That funding should be invested in our own people and infrastructure first and foremost, and not restored till we've addressed a number of our current rather massive deficiencies.
    The biggest risk of ending the state support for the military industrial complex is a huge spike in unemployment, geographical funding gaps and the resulting civil unrest.

    The rest of world will just about get by because there are loads of other nations willing to fill a power vacuum. The greatest impact will be domestic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  13. #40253
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    I think interventionism should be on its way out. I definitely won't be voting for any candidate that advocates intervention, even on a humanitarian basis. People have just gotten extremely hostile to the idea of being world police when there's so much stuff that is broken right here
    I very much hope so.

    I'm not a supporter of Isolationism, the U.S. needs to be active in the global community, and involved in issues of global interest.

    But IMO the United Nations need to take the lead role in international disputes, especially in organizing and deploying for humanitarian missions.

    The U.S. needs to get out of the business of fighting Wars like Iraq, Afghanistan and the like. Yes, that comes with a risk of those nations harboring terrorism, but the U.S. needs to work through the international community to combat terrorism, not cowboy off and ineffectively "fight" it the way we've done the last decade+

    And, frankly, the expenditures on our military need materially cut back, funding focused on 1. Local Defense, 2. A Small BEF-style of deploy-able Elite Military, 3. Nuclear Deterrence and 4. Modernization/Technology innovation/superiority.

    But yes, the days of "U.S. World Police" absolutely must come to an end, and the global community needs to take over that role as/if needed.

    Personally, I also put a huge dent in international aid programs. That funding should be invested in our own people and infrastructure first and foremost, and not restored till we've addressed a number of our current rather massive deficiencies.
    The biggest risk of ending the state support for the military industrial complex is a huge spike in unemployment, geographical funding gaps and the resulting civil unrest.

    The rest of world will just about get by because there are loads of other nations willing to fill a power vacuum. The greatest impact will be domestic.
    It couldn't be done overnight even if the political and cultural will for it existed. The US can't return to manufacturing civilian goods the way it was done prior to WWII and the emergence of the mil-industry complex. The forces of globalism and free market pushing the price of goods and labor down make it impossible; whereas military contracts are constantly over cost, late, cancelled, etc and not subject to market forces in the same way so are 'safe jobs'.

    Like if the newport news shipyards had to compete with the east asian ship builders for civilian contracts they would shut down within a decade maybe less (ok pulled that out of my ass but you get my point)

  14. #40254
    Keckers's Avatar
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    The US military is basically a massive boondoggle that also happens to export death and misery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  15. #40255
    XenosisMk4's Avatar
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    The United Nations would be far more effective if the security council stopped binning anything that harms them

    Although, then it wouldn't exist anymore, since nobody would want to play if they had to follow the rules

  16. #40256
    mewninn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    I think interventionism should be on its way out. I definitely won't be voting for any candidate that advocates intervention, even on a humanitarian basis. People have just gotten extremely hostile to the idea of being world police when there's so much stuff that is broken right here
    I very much hope so.

    I'm not a supporter of Isolationism, the U.S. needs to be active in the global community, and involved in issues of global interest.

    But IMO the United Nations need to take the lead role in international disputes, especially in organizing and deploying for humanitarian missions.

    The U.S. needs to get out of the business of fighting Wars like Iraq, Afghanistan and the like. Yes, that comes with a risk of those nations harboring terrorism, but the U.S. needs to work through the international community to combat terrorism, not cowboy off and ineffectively "fight" it the way we've done the last decade+

    And, frankly, the expenditures on our military need materially cut back, funding focused on 1. Local Defense, 2. A Small BEF-style of deploy-able Elite Military, 3. Nuclear Deterrence and 4. Modernization/Technology innovation/superiority.

    But yes, the days of "U.S. World Police" absolutely must come to an end, and the global community needs to take over that role as/if needed.

    Personally, I also put a huge dent in international aid programs. That funding should be invested in our own people and infrastructure first and foremost, and not restored till we've addressed a number of our current rather massive deficiencies.
    The biggest risk of ending the state support for the military industrial complex is a huge spike in unemployment, geographical funding gaps and the resulting civil unrest.

    The rest of world will just about get by because there are loads of other nations willing to fill a power vacuum. The greatest impact will be domestic.
    It couldn't be done overnight even if the political and cultural will for it existed. The US can't return to manufacturing civilian goods the way it was done prior to WWII and the emergence of the mil-industry complex. The forces of globalism and free market pushing the price of goods and labor down make it impossible; whereas military contracts are constantly over cost, late, cancelled, etc and not subject to market forces in the same way so are 'safe jobs'.

    Like if the newport news shipyards had to compete with the east asian ship builders for civilian contracts they would shut down within a decade maybe less (ok pulled that out of my ass but you get my point)
    It would be a good thing if the overall size of the military became smaller, but you need to get your head checked if you think we're going to close down important shipyards like Newport News and Electric Boat.

  17. #40257
    Alistair's Avatar
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    https://www.annenbergpublicpolicycen...al-provisions/

    There are days I am deeply embarrassed by my fellow Americans. This is one.


    "Nothing left to do, but smile, smile, smile......" Robert Hunter, "He's Gone"
    "...we looked very closely at the matter and concluded that unfortunately arseholes also get to benefit from democratic freedoms." Andreas Geisel, Interior Affairs Senator, Germany


  18. #40258
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.annenbergpublicpolicycen...al-provisions/

    There are days I am deeply embarrassed by my fellow Americans. This is one.
    More than a third of those surveyed (37 percent) can’t name any of the rights guaranteed under the First Amendment;
    Only a quarter of Americans (26 percent) can name all three branches of government.

    NBS

  19. #40259
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    https://www.annenbergpublicpolicycen...al-provisions/

    There are days I am deeply embarrassed by my fellow Americans. This is one.
    I had to take a test on all that, so I know I'm good. Most of my fellow immigrants have had to.
    meh

  20. #40260
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    It would be a good thing if the overall size of the military became smaller, but you need to get your head checked if you think we're going to close down important shipyards like Newport News and Electric Boat.
    Nah I'm just saying they aren't commercially viable operations is all, the military-industrial complex can't be reverted back to pre WWII style factories and shipyards.

    And yeah I know Newport news etc were around way before the wartime buildup so maybe they were bad examples to use

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