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Thread: The Official Russian [USA Politics Thread]™

  1. #39521

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    When batteries become widespread...

    I laughed.

    Gas fired power plants are cheaper than renewables and will be for decades.

    From opium and tobacco industries to modern day coal, the power of capitalism to allow products and processes (especially because of power of democracy) to cling on way beyond the point of social good is astonishing.

    And yet here we are, tearing down soviet memes and convincing people that gulags are the real problem in today's society.
    You might want to consider the role of the Federal Government in subsidization of power sources in your next screed on Capitalism.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

    When you can buy government protection for your industry, and when money=speech, you don't get to fall back on the "government enablers" argument. The reason the government continues to subsidize shitty technologies like coal is because the coal industry wants it that way, not because government is "at fault" for ill-advised policy.


    If a shift is what we need, then a discussion of public policy on energy subsidization is what we need to have.
    "The market just isn't free enough!", cried the liberal. The government should stop picking sides!
    Predictable "voters bear no responsibility, Government bears no responsibility, it's all those dirty capitalists!" trope. I keep forgetting how little responsibility you folks assign to anyone for what they do.

    And yes, the State can and should pick sides.




  2. #39522
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Do you understand how the balance of power affects decision making ability and responsibility of action within society?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  3. #39523
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Apparently money only equals power outside of political arguments

  4. #39524
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post

    Have you seen the state of the drug epidemic in Appalachia lately?
    LOL. Get back to us when Appalachia has Krokodil. Them we'll talk about drug epidemic.
    Whataboutism at its absolutely finest.
    You do understand that he was the first to say "what about drug epidemic in Appalachia", right?

    I merely showed that he has no fucking clue what he's talking about.
    And the irony is completely lost on Don, as per usual.

  5. #39525

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post

    From opium and tobacco industries to modern day coal, the power of capitalism to allow products and processes (especially because of power of democracy) to cling on way beyond the point of social good is astonishing.
    And the fact that tobacco and drug consumption are the highest in Russia and China is also the fault of capitalism?
    You really are a shining example of cold war propaganda working. Your argument is not even slightly related to the points presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    The only reason socialist position got an "equal schrift" until middle of last century was because this position was pushed at the gunpoint. Funny how once USSR collapsed and was unable to prop up puppet "socialist paradises", socialism has disappeared from the body politics. Also funny that now, once Russia managed to get back on its knees again (using money from fossil fuels, btw), suddenly socialism gets pushed again by useful idiots, paid or otherwise.
    Oh my, that black and white world view. You realize that capitalism tried and still tries it's absolute hardest to sabotage/prevent any honest try, because any country that would be successful.. Deflect all you want, if you think that capitalism/democracy today isn't broken beyond repair worldwide you can only be called ignorant. Shit like that is not the exception, the only reason this came to light is because someone wondered how emissions in cities didn't get any better despite all those new regulations.

    Oh, and if you haven't seen it yet, The Act of Killing gives some very nice insides on how democracy is spread around the world. The uncut version is worth the trouble.

    ib4 b..but the russian gulaags..
    “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”
    ― Werner Heisenberg

  6. #39526
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    When batteries become widespread...

    I laughed.

    Gas fired power plants are cheaper than renewables and will be for decades.

    From opium and tobacco industries to modern day coal, the power of capitalism to allow products and processes (especially because of power of democracy) to cling on way beyond the point of social good is astonishing.

    And yet here we are, tearing down soviet memes and convincing people that gulags are the real problem in today's society.
    You might want to consider the role of the Federal Government in subsidization of power sources in your next screed on Capitalism.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

    When you can buy government protection for your industry, and when money=speech, you don't get to fall back on the "government enablers" argument. The reason the government continues to subsidize shitty technologies like coal is because the coal industry wants it that way, not because government is "at fault" for ill-advised policy.


    If a shift is what we need, then a discussion of public policy on energy subsidization is what we need to have.
    "The market just isn't free enough!", cried the liberal. The government should stop picking sides!
    Predictable "voters bear no responsibility, Government bears no responsibility, it's all those dirty capitalists!" trope. I keep forgetting how little responsibility you folks assign to anyone for what they do.

    And yes, the State can and should pick sides.
    Voters only bear responsibility to the extent that they have an impact on policy choices made by government. In the United States, there is virtually no correlation between voter policy preference and enacted policy. Instead, policy preferences are dictated by the rich spending money, to the tune of something like a 98-99 fold preference.

    The US is an oligarchy, with its government firmly captured by the capitalist class. The voters have nothing to do with it. We make believe we're a democratic republic because doing so maintains order, but it's not the truth of things.

    Government bears responsibility only according to the sources of its control. Where voters control, voters and government share responsibility. Where capital controls, capital and government share responsibility.

    And yes, the state absolutely should pick sides—the people's side. But that can't happen under our current system, because our constitution lacks any kind of meaningful defense against regulatory capture.

  7. #39527
    Movember 2011Movember 2012 Nordstern's Avatar
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    2000.

    We've reached 2000 pages of autism. And no one sniped it.
    "Holy shit, I ask you to stop being autistic and you debate what autistic is." - spasm
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    WTF I hate white people now...

  8. #39528
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    When batteries become widespread...

    I laughed.

    Gas fired power plants are cheaper than renewables and will be for decades.

    From opium and tobacco industries to modern day coal, the power of capitalism to allow products and processes (especially because of power of democracy) to cling on way beyond the point of social good is astonishing.

    And yet here we are, tearing down soviet memes and convincing people that gulags are the real problem in today's society.
    Lol nope. Actually new large scale gas projects have pretty much died in much of Western Europe and needs substantial subsidy to persuade investors to build. The culprit? Intermittent renewables with no marginal startup costs killing their old peaker business model. Most countries are resorting to availability subsidies (literally a fixed monthly payment for existing) for new large scale CCGTs to encourage investment. See: UK's Capacity Mechanism. Even that is not working though - investors can see which way the wind is blowing (BADUM CHHHHHHHH)
    You do realise solar voltaic technology has been around since the 1950s? And lithium ion since the 90s?

    Meanwhile windfarm fundimentals have only changed because of mass manufacturing, very few technological innovations were needed, just the typical proof at scale, 'who'll jump first'ism that normally holds step changes in industry.

    For me, the lack of development and investment in these technologies up until *Al Gore* is one of the biggest failures of capitalism.

  9. #39529
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
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    Meanwhile in the west, witnesses the power of democracy!..!!!
    In the perverse dynamics of the firearms market, politicians who threaten to ban guns are very good for the industry while politicians who oppose gun control, like Donald Trump, provide no boost. Barack Obama, who reacted with grief and outrage to a 2012 mass shooting at an elementary school in Connecticut that left 20 children and six adults dead, was dubbed the “best gun salesman on the planet”.

    Trump, who told members of the National Rifle Association, “You came through for me and I am going to come through for you”, has produced only a eponymous “slump”.

    Debney did highlight some areas of potential growth, including the potential for “favorable changes in legislation” when it comes to gun silencers.

    The NRA is pushing to de-regulate silencers, which muffle or suppress the sound of gunshots, arguing that they should be more widely used by shooting sports enthusiasts to protect against hearing loss. Silencers are currently strictly tracked, taxed and regulated under federal law.

    Advertisement

    NRA-backed federal legislation, including a bill called the Hearing Protection Act, would remove silencers from the category of most dangerous, tightly regulated weapons.

    Gun control groups fiercely oppose the measure, raising concerns about whether silencers would be used in mass shootings and arguing that their broader use could make it harder for law enforcement to do their jobs
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mpared-to-2016

    What a time to be alive.

    In b4 Don. "but how many people have AK 47s killed."
    Last edited by Pattern; September 8 2017 at 07:44:35 PM.

  10. #39530

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordstern View Post
    2000.

    We've reached 2000 pages of autism. And no one sniped it.
    There's always 3000th page... Pretty sure we'll reach it by the 100 Anniversary of Great Bolshevik Revolution of 1917

  11. #39531

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    When batteries become widespread...

    I laughed.

    Gas fired power plants are cheaper than renewables and will be for decades.

    From opium and tobacco industries to modern day coal, the power of capitalism to allow products and processes (especially because of power of democracy) to cling on way beyond the point of social good is astonishing.

    And yet here we are, tearing down soviet memes and convincing people that gulags are the real problem in today's society.
    You might want to consider the role of the Federal Government in subsidization of power sources in your next screed on Capitalism.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

    When you can buy government protection for your industry, and when money=speech, you don't get to fall back on the "government enablers" argument. The reason the government continues to subsidize shitty technologies like coal is because the coal industry wants it that way, not because government is "at fault" for ill-advised policy.


    If a shift is what we need, then a discussion of public policy on energy subsidization is what we need to have.
    "The market just isn't free enough!", cried the liberal. The government should stop picking sides!
    Predictable "voters bear no responsibility, Government bears no responsibility, it's all those dirty capitalists!" trope. I keep forgetting how little responsibility you folks assign to anyone for what they do.

    And yes, the State can and should pick sides.
    Voters only bear responsibility to the extent that they have an impact on policy choices made by government. In the United States, there is virtually no correlation between voter policy preference and enacted policy. Instead, policy preferences are dictated by the rich spending money, to the tune of something like a 98-99 fold preference.

    The US is an oligarchy, with its government firmly captured by the capitalist class. The voters have nothing to do with it. We make believe we're a democratic republic because doing so maintains order, but it's not the truth of things.

    Government bears responsibility only according to the sources of its control. Where voters control, voters and government share responsibility. Where capital controls, capital and government share responsibility.

    And yes, the state absolutely should pick sides—the people's side. But that can't happen under our current system, because our constitution lacks any kind of meaningful defense against regulatory capture.
    I dream of a world where voters realize how much the Government does, how vital what they do is, and how important it is to be informed and to participate and vote.

    I believe that, combined with a better education system, would make a real difference. I believe in the people, and the power they possess, even if the do not wield is wisely today.

    I understand and appreciate that you do not, and believe the moneyed interests are far too powerful for the electorate to overcome. I will agree that corporate interests are too powerful, and wield political influence too strongly, even if I may disagree as to what the solution to that problem is.
    Last edited by Alistair; September 8 2017 at 07:44:56 PM.




  12. #39532

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Meanwhile in the west, witnesses the power of democracy!..!!!
    In the perverse dynamics of the firearms market, politicians who threaten to ban guns are very good for the industry while politicians who oppose gun control, like Donald Trump, provide no boost. Barack Obama, who reacted with grief and outrage to a 2012 mass shooting at an elementary school in Connecticut that left 20 children and six adults dead, was dubbed the “best gun salesman on the planet”.

    Trump, who told members of the National Rifle Association, “You came through for me and I am going to come through for you”, has produced only a eponymous “slump”.

    Debney did highlight some areas of potential growth, including the potential for “favorable changes in legislation” when it comes to gun silencers.

    The NRA is pushing to de-regulate silencers, which muffle or suppress the sound of gunshots, arguing that they should be more widely used by shooting sports enthusiasts to protect against hearing loss. Silencers are currently strictly tracked, taxed and regulated under federal law.

    Advertisement

    NRA-backed federal legislation, including a bill called the Hearing Protection Act, would remove silencers from the category of most dangerous, tightly regulated weapons.

    Gun control groups fiercely oppose the measure, raising concerns about whether silencers would be used in mass shootings and arguing that their broader use could make it harder for law enforcement to do their jobs
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mpared-to-2016

    What a time to be alive.

    In b4 Don. "but how many people have AK 47s killed."
    not as many, due to inherent inaccuracy and obsolete design

    The Mosin-Nagant, on the other hand...
    Last edited by Don Rumata; September 8 2017 at 07:49:43 PM.

  13. #39533

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    When batteries become widespread...

    I laughed.

    Gas fired power plants are cheaper than renewables and will be for decades.

    From opium and tobacco industries to modern day coal, the power of capitalism to allow products and processes (especially because of power of democracy) to cling on way beyond the point of social good is astonishing.

    And yet here we are, tearing down soviet memes and convincing people that gulags are the real problem in today's society.
    You might want to consider the role of the Federal Government in subsidization of power sources in your next screed on Capitalism.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

    When you can buy government protection for your industry, and when money=speech, you don't get to fall back on the "government enablers" argument. The reason the government continues to subsidize shitty technologies like coal is because the coal industry wants it that way, not because government is "at fault" for ill-advised policy.


    If a shift is what we need, then a discussion of public policy on energy subsidization is what we need to have.
    "The market just isn't free enough!", cried the liberal. The government should stop picking sides!
    Predictable "voters bear no responsibility, Government bears no responsibility, it's all those dirty capitalists!" trope. I keep forgetting how little responsibility you folks assign to anyone for what they do.

    And yes, the State can and should pick sides.
    Voters only bear responsibility to the extent that they have an impact on policy choices made by government. In the United States, there is virtually no correlation between voter policy preference and enacted policy. Instead, policy preferences are dictated by the rich spending money, to the tune of something like a 98-99 fold preference.

    The US is an oligarchy, with its government firmly captured by the capitalist class. The voters have nothing to do with it. We make believe we're a democratic republic because doing so maintains order, but it's not the truth of things.

    Government bears responsibility only according to the sources of its control. Where voters control, voters and government share responsibility. Where capital controls, capital and government share responsibility.

    And yes, the state absolutely should pick sides—the people's side. But that can't happen under our current system, because our constitution lacks any kind of meaningful defense against regulatory capture.
    I dream of a world where voters realize how much the Government does, how vital what they do is, and how important it is to be informed and to participate and vote.

    I believe that, combined with a better education system, would make a real difference. I believe in the people, and the power they possess, even if the do not wield is wisely today.

    I understand and appreciate that you do not, and believe the moneyed interests are far too powerful for the electorate to overcome. I will agree that corporate interests are too powerful, and wield political influence too strongly, even if I may disagree as to what the solution to that problem is.
    Holy hell you're full of shit.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

  14. #39534
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    When batteries become widespread...

    I laughed.

    Gas fired power plants are cheaper than renewables and will be for decades.

    From opium and tobacco industries to modern day coal, the power of capitalism to allow products and processes (especially because of power of democracy) to cling on way beyond the point of social good is astonishing.

    And yet here we are, tearing down soviet memes and convincing people that gulags are the real problem in today's society.
    You might want to consider the role of the Federal Government in subsidization of power sources in your next screed on Capitalism.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

    When you can buy government protection for your industry, and when money=speech, you don't get to fall back on the "government enablers" argument. The reason the government continues to subsidize shitty technologies like coal is because the coal industry wants it that way, not because government is "at fault" for ill-advised policy.


    If a shift is what we need, then a discussion of public policy on energy subsidization is what we need to have.
    "The market just isn't free enough!", cried the liberal. The government should stop picking sides!
    Predictable "voters bear no responsibility, Government bears no responsibility, it's all those dirty capitalists!" trope. I keep forgetting how little responsibility you folks assign to anyone for what they do.

    And yes, the State can and should pick sides.
    Voters only bear responsibility to the extent that they have an impact on policy choices made by government. In the United States, there is virtually no correlation between voter policy preference and enacted policy. Instead, policy preferences are dictated by the rich spending money, to the tune of something like a 98-99 fold preference.

    The US is an oligarchy, with its government firmly captured by the capitalist class. The voters have nothing to do with it. We make believe we're a democratic republic because doing so maintains order, but it's not the truth of things.

    Government bears responsibility only according to the sources of its control. Where voters control, voters and government share responsibility. Where capital controls, capital and government share responsibility.

    And yes, the state absolutely should pick sides—the people's side. But that can't happen under our current system, because our constitution lacks any kind of meaningful defense against regulatory capture.
    I dream of a world where voters realize how much the Government does, how vital what they do is, and how important it is to be informed and to participate and vote.

    I believe that, combined with a better education system, would make a real difference. I believe in the people, and the power they possess, even if the do not wield is wisely today.


    Fuck yeah, common ground established!

    I understand and appreciate that you do not, and believe the moneyed interests are far too powerful for the electorate to overcome.
    Oh wait, no, you're still being a cunt who refuses to pay attention to what I'm actually saying. Of course the electorate has the power to take things back. That's why the Constitution is so fucking awesome, and why I took an oath to uphold it. Jesus fucking Christ. If I believed the moneyed interests were too powerful, why would I be devoting my legal career to pushing back against them, and why would I bother advocating for change?
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; September 8 2017 at 07:52:38 PM.

  15. #39535

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    That's why the Constitution is so fucking awesome, and why I took an oath to uphold it.
    You sure you've used the right Constitution?


  16. #39536
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Absolutely sure.

    Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see some updates, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

    (Funny that all these are taken from Chapter 7 of the '36 Soviet constitution... isn't it? FDR was such a commie pinko bastard.)
    Last edited by Lachesis VII; September 8 2017 at 08:05:07 PM.

  17. #39537

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Absolutely sure.

    Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see some updates, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

    (Funny that all these are taken from Chapter 7 of the '36 Soviet constitution... isn't it?
    Yes, because 1936 Russia was AWESOME!
    Last edited by Don Rumata; September 8 2017 at 08:09:22 PM.

  18. #39538
    Lachesis VII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lachesis VII View Post
    Absolutely sure.

    Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see some updates, though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

    (Funny that all these are taken from Chapter 7 of the '36 Soviet constitution... isn't it?
    Yes, because 1936 Russia was AWESOME!
    No, but 1944 America was pretty damned cool.

    But go ahead and tell me why you think FDR might have arrived at the same conclusions vis-a-vis economic rights as Stalin and the rest of the '36 Soviet constitutional committee.

    I await your thoughtful and considered analysis.

  19. #39539
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    When batteries become widespread...

    I laughed.

    Gas fired power plants are cheaper than renewables and will be for decades.

    From opium and tobacco industries to modern day coal, the power of capitalism to allow products and processes (especially because of power of democracy) to cling on way beyond the point of social good is astonishing.

    And yet here we are, tearing down soviet memes and convincing people that gulags are the real problem in today's society.
    Lol nope. Actually new large scale gas projects have pretty much died in much of Western Europe and needs substantial subsidy to persuade investors to build. The culprit? Intermittent renewables with no marginal startup costs killing their old peaker business model. Most countries are resorting to availability subsidies (literally a fixed monthly payment for existing) for new large scale CCGTs to encourage investment. See: UK's Capacity Mechanism. Even that is not working though - investors can see which way the wind is blowing (BADUM CHHHHHHHH)
    You do realise solar voltaic technology has been around since the 1950s? And lithium ion since the 90s?

    Meanwhile windfarm fundimentals have only changed because of mass manufacturing, very few technological innovations were needed, just the typical proof at scale, 'who'll jump first'ism that normally holds step changes in industry.

    For me, the lack of development and investment in these technologies up until *Al Gore* is one of the biggest failures of capitalism.

    There's enormous windfarm innovation going on all the time. Just look at the progression in blade sizes, the changes in the composites used to make them, the development of offshore substations etc. There is a very real progression in technology (much of which would not have been possible 20 years ago with any amount of run up due to advances in materials science/engineering, particular anti-corrosion paints and low density but high-rigidity composite materials) there that goes far beyond mere increasing economies of scale.

    Similar Solar P.V., the real explosion has come from the cost reduction and efficiency gains made possible by fairly recent developments in mass fabrication methods (laminate printing, thin film pv and the like) - things that didnt exist 20 years ago.

    Lots of these innovations are not specific to the industry, but rather borrow from advances in materials science made in other industries (space, shipping, auto etc)

    Like electric cars, while the ideas have existed for a long time, it requires a large number of different "threads" of development for a technology to be ready to take off, no matter how much money is thrown at it.

  20. #39540
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    and all of those technologies are still useless without decent (which we still dont have ) battery tech. another 10 years otoh will more than likely change that.


    

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