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Thread: The Official Russian [USA Politics Thread]™

  1. #39261
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    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    You would be bearable if you had an ounce of humour.
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  2. #39262

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    I'm curious, does the UK have anything similar to DACA in it's immigration laws?
    No. DACA is a consequence of US citizenship laws, or rather their insanity. Let's say you've got two persons, neither of them have US citizens for parents.

    One is born in the united states and then moves to Mexico the day after, never comes back and frankly forgets they're even part American. Not only are they a fully fledged American citizen but will be hounded down by the IRS for taxes for the rest of their lives.

    The other is born in Mexico a hundred yards from the border and moves to the united states illegally the very next day, grows up a good American child frankly forgetting they've even got a Mexican connection. Not only are they effectively banned from obtaining citizenship but will be hounded by ICE for the rest of their living days under threat of a deportation to a country they've never even really seen.

    Like, what the fuck America. And now you're going to make it even worse by revoking the right to remain and right to work from those who were granted it just a few years ago. You're literally trying to deport english speaking, fully employed, taxpaying Americans.

    There are a few tiers of legislation that would stop that in the UK

    1) Citizenship is based on parentage and/or residency, not where you're born
    2) The crimes of the parent (i.e. illegal immigration) would not be held against the child; someone who has grown up in the country would be granted indefinite leave to remain and eventually citizenship with no questions asked. This would be highly unusual as schools, jobs, housing etc. are all required to validate residency status so living long term, illegal-but-stable lives is nigh on impossible.
    3) Deporting someone to a country with which they have no practical connection or means of support is a gross violation of their human rights and is illegal regardless of their citizenship status (as much as the government may attempt to do it every now and then for shits and gigS)


    Could the PM simply decree something like DACA and have it be the new law?
    No. Our executive has extremely limited direct powers. Its power rests in its ability to (usually) command an absolute majority in parliament, not its ability to pass decree. Certain powers are delegated to the executive, but are explicit, highly restricted, must be executed in an impartial manner in support of the legislation granting them and are generally subject to judicial review.


    For slightly more light hearted consequences of similarly insane laws, take a look at what is currently happening in Australia's parliament, where having dual citizenship is a disqualification. As most Australians have at least one grandparent of western european ancestry it turns out quite a large number of their MPs and Senators have dual citizenship and never even realised it and have had to step down.

  3. #39263
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    I don't really have a horse in this race but when you get down to it this is sadly the consequence of essentially enacting legislation through executive orders.

    What can be done with one or stroke can be undone by another and unfortunately 300k people are going to get burned for it

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  4. #39264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    I don't really have a horse in this race but when you get down to it this is sadly the consequence of essentially enacting legislation through executive orders.

    What can be done with one or stroke can be undone by another and unfortunately 300k people are going to get burned for it

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Which again is the problem with the US system in general as Presidents fairly often do not command a majority in congress, even when their party technically does.

    The whole thing is of course designed intentionally so that it is difficult to do things and power is widely spread, but it does also act as a fairly significant barrier to permanent major reforms that could be positive as well.

  5. #39265
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    Are they all 'dreamers'?


  6. #39266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    paywall
    Steph to the rescue once again; something something ethicks in jurnalizm

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  7. #39267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    Texas: "We had the most expensive storm in US history!"

    Florida: "Hold my beer"
    Actually an '06.

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  8. #39268

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    Where to begin here. Executive branch is responsible for the enforcement of laws. Setting enforcement priorities is part of it's responsibilities.
    Priorities, not wholesale political-based executive-driven amnesty programs.

    Again, laws should be changed by Congress if they need changed.

    If the legislature is ambiguous about how the law should be enforced then that falls to the executive to decide.
    The legislature was not ambiguous, they passed the laws as they were written.

    The judiciary can also get involved but that's a reactionary and not proactive.
    Agreed, and it's generally only for questions of constitutionality.

    The last couple of congresses absolutely refused to touch the issue with a ten foot pole. So of course while they did nothing to address the problem they were quick to blame Obama. But of course not enough to actually even try and pass or amend any laws.
    Which means the law, as written, is the law. You do not and should not re-legislate by executive fiat because Congress is locked in disagreement. Tie goes to existing law.

    Regardless DACA encouraged young illegals who basically had no volition in coming to the US to step out of the legal shadow, get registered, etc.
    And gets them access to a variety of fiscal benefits. Yes, I'm well aware.

    Now Mr Trump and Sessions are coming along and changing policy.
    When you rule by Executive Policy, you die by Executive policy.

    Their argument is that its unconstitutional.
    That's up to a court to decide, which these days could mean anything.

    Which is frankly bullshit of the highest order coming from this administration.
    We all hate and distrust this Administration.

    So effectively what we have is a program that had children and young adults register for the sin of their fathers.
    I'm shocked you'd even admit there was a sin involved at all.

    And that registry is going to be used to persecute them. Unless a dysfunctional congress can act in time to stop it.
    If the people agree with you, the mid-term elections are a thing. Like I said, win some elections about it.

    Gee, fascism lite is probably a bit of an understatement.
    Give that hyperactive hyperbole shit a rest mate. Enforcing immigration law isn't facism for fucks sake.




  9. #39269
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    meh

  10. #39270

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    No. Our executive has extremely limited direct powers. Its power rests in its ability to (usually) command an absolute majority in parliament, not its ability to pass decree. Certain powers are delegated to the executive, but are explicit, highly restricted, must be executed in an impartial manner in support of the legislation granting them and are generally subject to judicial review.
    Thanks to Lall for pointing this out.

    While technically accurate it's important to clarify that while powers must be explicitly granted and are restricted etc. etc., there's nothing stopping parliament passing laws essentially granting ministers carte blanche to do what they want within a given area.

    For example this is how a lot of european law is legally implemented in the UK. To quote:

    (2)Subject to Schedule 2 to this Act, at any time after its passing Her Majesty may by Order in Council, and any designated Minister or department may [F21by order, rules, regulations or scheme] , make provision—
    (a)for the purpose of implementing any [F22EU obligation] of the United Kingdom
    ...
    It's also quite how the government would like to handle brexit, but that's a lot more contentious.

  11. #39271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by XenosisMk4 View Post


    Absolutely smashing
    This is actually really good. It really unpicks all the standard centre and alt- right talking points.
    "Oblivious centrists picking up alt-right talking points" should be the title of this thread imo.
    I finally managed to give it a watch and thought bringing it back up might be a good idea, it is very good and feels like a straight up reading of a fair few people in these very threads. Our 'extreme centrists' might really want to have a careful watch tbfh.

    I remember running into Contra a while ago while watching Hbomberguy, another really good youtuber at tearing this bullshit apart, although more into the 'youtube rationalist/sceptic' community. Never actually watched many videos though, might have to do more now.
    So I sat down and had a watch at this video and I thou-

    >"I'm not a fascist" is exactly what a fascist would say



    Is this satire?
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  12. #39272
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    I managed about 1 minute and 10 seconds before I turned it off. I really couldn't give a shit.

  13. #39273
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cullnean View Post
    You would be bearable if you had an ounce of humour.

    Sent from my CUBOT CHEETAH 2 using Tapatalk
    If i wasn't using it because i had the best squad ever.

  14. #39274
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    Came back to Florida this week.

    Strongest Atlantic hurricane & worst storm since Andrew poised to hit the state this weekend.

    Scenes straight out of a post-apocalypse movie at all the stores right now. I haven't seen it this bad since I was a kid.

    Fuck this shitty continent and its natural disasters.

  15. #39275
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Came back to Florida this week.

    Strongest Atlantic hurricane & worst storm since Andrew poised to hit the state this weekend.

    Scenes straight out of a post-apocalypse movie at all the stores right now. I haven't seen it this bad since I was a kid.

    Fuck this shitty continent and its natural disasters.
    Look on the bright side.


    You're not in Danmark!

  16. #39276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Came back to Florida this week.

    Strongest Atlantic hurricane & worst storm since Andrew poised to hit the state this weekend.

    Scenes straight out of a post-apocalypse movie at all the stores right now. I haven't seen it this bad since I was a kid.

    Fuck this shitty continent and its natural disasters.
    Look on the bright side.


    You're not in Danmark!
    Living with Danes is almost as bad as a life-shattering hurricane, but not quite.

    Also FEMA is basically out of money after Harvey and all the supplies that were in Florida were sent to help Texas.

    GG NO RE MAGAGAGAGAGAGAGAGa

  17. #39277
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    Nature, taking care of the climate change deniers one state at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  18. #39278
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post

    Their argument is that its unconstitutional.
    That's up to a court to decide, which these days could mean anything.
    Except for it got decided.

    By Mr. Trump and Mr. Sessions.

    And boy did the latter have a shit-eating grin on his face as he announced how he was stripping away legal protections from nearly one million young Americans, most of which have never known or remembered life in another nation.

  19. #39279
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Nature, taking care of the climate change deniers one state at a time.
    Edgy but you understand the places getting truly, utterly raped are Puerto Rico, Haiti and Cuba + other islands right?

  20. #39280

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    I'm not sure if it's good or bad that white house aids were saying they weren't sure if Trump knew what the full ramifications were. Is incompetence better than abject cruelty?
    Totally not Victoria Stecker forgetting his password and not having access to his work email.

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