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Thread: The Questionably Fascist [USA Politics Thread]™

  1. #38581
    Keckers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Labour is a Democratic Socialist party. Well, it claims to be. They have a more socialist position on policy issues than any other party in parliament.
    Democratic Socialist =/= Socialist though. Generally private ownership of the means of production for example.

    Yes they are "more socialist than any other party in parliament", in the same way the US democratic party is more socialist than any other party in the senate. It's relative.
    The Dems aren't even vaguely socialist though. They are committed neoliberals.
    That was my point
    Labour have an actual socialist policy, renationalising the railways.

    The Democrats have errr... a policy for a slightly different relationship with medical insurers?
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  2. #38582
    thebomby's Avatar
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    Recommended for the participants of this thread:

    Будь смиренным, будь кротким, не заботься о тленном
    Власти, данной Богом, сынок, будь навеки верным...
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  3. #38583

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Recommended for the participants of this thread:

    Which now includes you.

    You go first and I'll do it after. I promise.

  4. #38584
    Super Chillerator Global Moderator teds :D's Avatar
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    (ingame)

  5. #38585
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Recommended for the participants of this thread:

    reported


  6. #38586
    Rakshasa The Cat's Avatar
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    Both fascism and communism are socialist ideologies.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  7. #38587
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    True Fascism has never been tried

  8. #38588
    Alistair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lallante View Post

    Your definition of "ruler extreme centrist" isnt centrist by any normal conception - on economic matters by definition the center is some compromise midpoint between non-market-imposed and market-imposed economic decision making ("calculation"). I don't know anyone who would meet your definition who doesnt self-identify as a libertarian - never considered a centrist doctrine.
    Right libertarians would say the state has no part in interfering with and influencing market outcomes. Which is clearly not the case in any capitalist market that has ever existed. So that entire concept of rule can be discarded as "true markets have never been tried". I also don't think you could say the conservative party would ever identify (publicly at least) as right libertarians.

    Centrists are pro-market, and use the state to rig markets for favourable outcomes. Neoliberalism is allowing market forces to dictate the outcomes in everything including public spheres. Supporting a centrist party (whether centre right or centre left) is supporting this societal and economic structure. If you oppose this you better start calling yourself a democratic socialist because when you remove market forces you are advocating free access, which is socialist, or you are allowing corporate, profit-seeking entities to monopolise provision of public services which is a step down the road to fascism.
    When you are as far left as you are, everyone looks "pro-market" and everyone fits your "doesnt agree with me" definition of neoliberal. Economic Centrists believe the market plays a role and that the state or other organising principles also need to play a role too. The balance between state and market determines where one sits between far left (planned economy) and far right (anarcho libertarian). Centrists are those who advocate a strong role for both. Conservatives are often not centreist because they want to minimise the role of the state whenever possible. Some conservatives may be centrist however.

    "Pro-market" is meaningless as it is a relative term. Very few current centrists are in favour of the market having a stronger role in, say, the UK, than it currently does. So we are not pro-market in the sense you use it. No-one I know who self-identifies as a centrist wants free market forces to "dictate the outcomes in everything including public spheres". The market is the right organising principle for many things, like consumer goods. It is the wrong organising principle for many other things, like healthcare. Labelling this position "pro-market therefore neoliberal" is just dumb.

    As usual you are defining everything that isnt your opinion as a single amorphous opposite opinion. No nuance, no engagement, no distinctions drawn. Your standard "you like flags, you know who else liked flags? HITLER" bullshit.
    Perfect post. Bravo.
    "Nothing left to do, but smile, smile, smile......" Robert Hunter, "He's Gone"
    "...we looked very closely at the matter and concluded that unfortunately arseholes also get to benefit from democratic freedoms." Andreas Geisel, Interior Affairs Senator, Germany


  9. #38589
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Both fascism and communism are socialist ideologies.
    Fascism isn't socialism you retard.
    meh

  10. #38590
    Movember '12 Best Facial Hair Movember 2012Donor Lallante's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Both fascism and communism are socialist ideologies.
    Fascism isn't socialism you retard.
    True Socio-fascism has never been tried. Nor has Fascio-Socialism for that matter.

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