hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 1040 of 1475 FirstFirst ... 4054094099010301037103810391040104110421043105010901140 ... LastLast
Results 20,781 to 20,800 of 29484

Thread: M [USA Politics Thread] GA!

  1. #20781
    Yankunytjatjara's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    1,363
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neoo Gabriel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Chinese doctrine is opposed to starting a war that cannot be concluded, and a war with the USA cannot be concluded via non-nuclear military means.
    Hypothetical here... Given their declared strength and capability does China have sufficient 'reliable' strategic nuclear capability to get MAD with the USA? Is a nuclear exchange with China something the USA could 'win' and still have enough capability (plus allies) to deal with Russia if they started getting bolshy?
    Actually if there was a nuclear exchange and all Chinese cities "east of Xi'an" were nuked, the radioactive ash from the fires would blow east and contaminate the entire planet, so that in itself acts as a MAD component. And there would still be more Chinese left alive than in an unscathed USA to prosecute the war in different means. There is no win scenario in Nuclear war. Best to go for a government/peasant revolution.
    The US would never fire nuclear weapons at mainland China or Russia unless it itself had already been attacked. Can you even imagine the repercussions of even a limited nuclear exchange? Do you think the Chinese would wait after atomic weapons were used on its soil before it went after both the US and India, which has a large nuclear arsenal and sits right on its south eastern border? Would you?
    Nobody rational would ever first strike, and I like to think, actually second strike neither . See both undisclosed incidents, Vasili Arkhipov and Stanislav Petrov: both happened in full cold war, nowadays it'd be even more unlikely.

    The problem is that therefore, any real world scenarios where nukes are actually used involve:
    - fuck ups
    - madmen

    If the world ends, the last word will likely be "oops". Well, that or a mad laughter, if it's best Korea.
    My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude!
    Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors

  2. #20782
    Paradox's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 24, 2011
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Devonshire
    Posts
    6,917
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by UsernameisValidandNotinUs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarp View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Boeing, not LM. LM makes the F-35..
    Obviously. Sorry. Tres tired.

    TBH this thread and the way it has developed and the setting of opinion vs fact is why the F-35 has a huge bullseye all over it. I'm tired, I'm struggling with jetlag. Again, but their are so many misconceptions bandied about as facts it would take a week's worth of pedantic nit picking to even start getting anywhere.

    The F/A18 in any guise doesn't come close to the F-35. It's not top trumps, it's not a matter of ticking boxes and saying well the F/A-18 has this system and so does the F-35 so there's parity.

    Both airframes are capable - F/A-18 after heavy modification - ( which affects range,combat loadout and price ) of collating similar data and defending itself electronically. The difference is how data and information is assimilated to pilot and how the pilot uses it.

    Speak too and understand how a 5th gen pilot operates - You haven't and won't - and the difference is night and day. Nothing any Western pilot has ever flown - including F-22 pilots comes close to how an F-35 handles data and assimilates it to its pilot and the ( joint ) network it is on.

    F-35 airframes with V <2.0 flight and weapon software, Those embarked on USS America recently at >3.0(ish) and above regularly defeat 4th gen aggressors. Easily. Both defeating simulated saturated air defence target areas and targets with heavy CAP.

    There is literally nothing you can say that would lead me to reconsider that the F-35 in the biggest step in capability in a generation.

    However it will be up to the politicians to decide it'd fate.
    I can believe everything you say, but the whole concept is already 16 years old and while the F-35 might well be able to knock out Su-35s with ease while lobbing missiles at S-400 sites, it will be old by the time the Chinese get their stolen copy working on modern hardware, if they haven't already. Mig-31s have been able to sync their radar data for over two decades already and I'm pretty sure that the capabilities of the F-35 are not unkown. While the F-35 might king of the hill of the hill for a while, the way military things go, it won't be for a very long while. And the price tag that it comes with better be worth it. $400 billion is one fuck of a lot of money to spend on a single weapon system, especially if the chinese can build a remotely comparable system that costs half of what the F-35 does.

    But yeah, the F-35 is certainly much better than all the haters were claiming.
    >expecting the Chinese to get the J-20 into mass production before they can build reliable engines/avionics/anything else at a 4th gen level.

    Hahaha ahaha

    About as likely as the PAK ever reaching operational deployment outside of airshows.
    The J-20 is already in low rate production. It won't be as good as the F-22 in the stealth regime, but it has the advantage of completely new software, sensors and avionics and its design is unrelated to any american one. It most likely costs much less as well. The Chinese also have the J-31, which, even if it's only a prototype, is pretty impressive for an air force that was flying 1960s planes two decades ago.

    I think, just like there is a lot of FUD about the F-35, there is a lot of FUD about Chinese abilities. The Chinese have caught up in many if not all aspects of military hardware, be it though theft, purchase or original design. And their military is now big and modern enough that there is no way the US will ever fight them unless it's very clear that it won't go nuclear.

    And the situation won't improve for the US in the long run.
    Minor quibble: The J-20 is not designed to do the same thing as the F-22, it's far more maritime strike oriented and multirole than the F-22

    It's more like an ultra-modern stealth Viggen than an ultra-modern stealth F-15


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  3. #20783
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    6,370
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankunytjatjara View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neoo Gabriel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Maximillian View Post
    Chinese doctrine is opposed to starting a war that cannot be concluded, and a war with the USA cannot be concluded via non-nuclear military means.
    Hypothetical here... Given their declared strength and capability does China have sufficient 'reliable' strategic nuclear capability to get MAD with the USA? Is a nuclear exchange with China something the USA could 'win' and still have enough capability (plus allies) to deal with Russia if they started getting bolshy?
    Actually if there was a nuclear exchange and all Chinese cities "east of Xi'an" were nuked, the radioactive ash from the fires would blow east and contaminate the entire planet, so that in itself acts as a MAD component. And there would still be more Chinese left alive than in an unscathed USA to prosecute the war in different means. There is no win scenario in Nuclear war. Best to go for a government/peasant revolution.
    The US would never fire nuclear weapons at mainland China or Russia unless it itself had already been attacked. Can you even imagine the repercussions of even a limited nuclear exchange? Do you think the Chinese would wait after atomic weapons were used on its soil before it went after both the US and India, which has a large nuclear arsenal and sits right on its south eastern border? Would you?
    Nobody rational would ever first strike, and I like to think, actually second strike neither . See both undisclosed incidents, Vasili Arkhipov and Stanislav Petrov: both happened in full cold war, nowadays it'd be even more unlikely.

    The problem is that therefore, any real world scenarios where nukes are actually used involve:
    - fuck ups
    - madmen

    If the world ends, the last word will likely be "oops". Well, that or a mad laughter, if it's best Korea.
    Let's hope the Russians love their shitposting too.

  4. #20784
    Donor Pattern's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    5,702
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    UAVs won't have anywhere close to the performance characteristics of manned fighters for a while, and I'm not aware of any in the pipeline that will. F-35 is a good plane, with some development and procurement problems that have been extremely scrutinized. The F-35 isn't unique in this regard either, but the first to receive such extreme exposure due to the emergence of new media and the internet. Which isn't to excuse these problems, but many voices actively seek to conflate the delays, overruns, and general procurement problems with it being a bad plane. And it's not a bad plane, it's not even a bad plane for the current cost.

    As for UAVs replacing humans? I just can't see it for a lot of combat roles. The manned "Mothership" with networked "Drones" concept seems very interesting, and IMHO is probably as far as it'll go, at least within the F-35s service life. I just don't think any nation will risk entirely automated assets due to the possibility of disruption, hacking, cylons, etc.
    In before the X45, the X47, X47B and X37.
    I thought we were talking about less costly alternatives.
    Comparing X planes to production models are we?

    IIRC X35 cost around about $55billion to develop

    A quick google gives me, X-47B (x2) UCAS-D Program cost: US$813 million

    And I thought we were talking about more advanced airframes and technologies?
    You're missing the difference between a full-fledged prototype for a mass-produced plane, and a proof-of-concept that was eventually canceled.

    Don't let that stop you though, these posts have been pretty funny
    Im not missing the difference. But do go on about how awesome the F35 is at its intended roles and how paradigm shifts never happen during conflicts or how the technology for semi autonomous fighters is a million years away.
    If you like drone fighters, I don't know why you're whining about the cost of the F-35 then. The project to have semi-autonomous fighters would be an even bigger software quagmire than the F-35 is. There is no cheapness associated with an ambition like that, and I'm sure development costs will reflect it.
    Show me where I whined about the cost of the F35.

    My beef isn't with cost, it's with a military doctrine that's basically irrelevant in any likely future or conflict.

    Looking at political objectives and future conflicts, drones are already vastly preferred options for prosecuting objectives for obvious reasons.

  5. #20785
    Alistair's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    In the Shadows of the Trumpian Empire
    Posts
    10,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    UAVs won't have anywhere close to the performance characteristics of manned fighters for a while, and I'm not aware of any in the pipeline that will. F-35 is a good plane, with some development and procurement problems that have been extremely scrutinized. The F-35 isn't unique in this regard either, but the first to receive such extreme exposure due to the emergence of new media and the internet. Which isn't to excuse these problems, but many voices actively seek to conflate the delays, overruns, and general procurement problems with it being a bad plane. And it's not a bad plane, it's not even a bad plane for the current cost.

    As for UAVs replacing humans? I just can't see it for a lot of combat roles. The manned "Mothership" with networked "Drones" concept seems very interesting, and IMHO is probably as far as it'll go, at least within the F-35s service life. I just don't think any nation will risk entirely automated assets due to the possibility of disruption, hacking, cylons, etc.
    In before the X45, the X47, X47B and X37.
    I thought we were talking about less costly alternatives.
    Comparing X planes to production models are we?

    IIRC X35 cost around about $55billion to develop

    A quick google gives me, X-47B (x2) UCAS-D Program cost: US$813 million

    And I thought we were talking about more advanced airframes and technologies?
    You're missing the difference between a full-fledged prototype for a mass-produced plane, and a proof-of-concept that was eventually canceled.

    Don't let that stop you though, these posts have been pretty funny
    Im not missing the difference. But do go on about how awesome the F35 is at its intended roles and how paradigm shifts never happen during conflicts or how the technology for semi autonomous fighters is a million years away.
    If you like drone fighters, I don't know why you're whining about the cost of the F-35 then. The project to have semi-autonomous fighters would be an even bigger software quagmire than the F-35 is. There is no cheapness associated with an ambition like that, and I'm sure development costs will reflect it.
    Show me where I whined about the cost of the F35.

    My beef isn't with cost, it's with a military doctrine that's basically irrelevant in any likely future or conflict.

    Looking at political objectives and future conflicts, drones are already vastly preferred options for prosecuting objectives for obvious reasons.
    I presume you believe large-scale Conventional War between generally equal nation states will never, ever, in any way happen again?
    "Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." Jean-Jacques Rousseau



  6. #20786
    Frug's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,257
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post

    My beef isn't with cost, it's with a military doctrine that's basically irrelevant in any likely future or conflict.
    What are the likely future conflicts and why are you making the claim that the doctrine would be irrelevant. I'm pretty sceptical you have any solid basis behind this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  7. #20787
    Paradox's Avatar
    Join Date
    December 24, 2011
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Devonshire
    Posts
    6,917
    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mewninn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenta View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    UAVs won't have anywhere close to the performance characteristics of manned fighters for a while, and I'm not aware of any in the pipeline that will. F-35 is a good plane, with some development and procurement problems that have been extremely scrutinized. The F-35 isn't unique in this regard either, but the first to receive such extreme exposure due to the emergence of new media and the internet. Which isn't to excuse these problems, but many voices actively seek to conflate the delays, overruns, and general procurement problems with it being a bad plane. And it's not a bad plane, it's not even a bad plane for the current cost.

    As for UAVs replacing humans? I just can't see it for a lot of combat roles. The manned "Mothership" with networked "Drones" concept seems very interesting, and IMHO is probably as far as it'll go, at least within the F-35s service life. I just don't think any nation will risk entirely automated assets due to the possibility of disruption, hacking, cylons, etc.
    In before the X45, the X47, X47B and X37.
    I thought we were talking about less costly alternatives.
    Comparing X planes to production models are we?

    IIRC X35 cost around about $55billion to develop

    A quick google gives me, X-47B (x2) UCAS-D Program cost: US$813 million

    And I thought we were talking about more advanced airframes and technologies?
    You're missing the difference between a full-fledged prototype for a mass-produced plane, and a proof-of-concept that was eventually canceled.

    Don't let that stop you though, these posts have been pretty funny
    Im not missing the difference. But do go on about how awesome the F35 is at its intended roles and how paradigm shifts never happen during conflicts or how the technology for semi autonomous fighters is a million years away.
    If you like drone fighters, I don't know why you're whining about the cost of the F-35 then. The project to have semi-autonomous fighters would be an even bigger software quagmire than the F-35 is. There is no cheapness associated with an ambition like that, and I'm sure development costs will reflect it.
    Show me where I whined about the cost of the F35.

    My beef isn't with cost, it's with a military doctrine that's basically irrelevant in any likely future or conflict.

    Looking at political objectives and future conflicts, drones are already vastly preferred options for prosecuting objectives for obvious reasons.
    I presume you believe large-scale Conventional War between generally equal nation states will never, ever, in any way happen again?
    Even if it doesn't you could do a lot worse than F-35 to fight asymmetrical conflicts.


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  8. #20788
    Neoo Gabriel's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 27, 2011
    Posts
    1,460

  9. #20789
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    Bonding around
    Posts
    17,306
    If Hillary runs in 2020 she'll lose again for pretty much the same reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  10. #20790
    Frug's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,257
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    If Hillary runs in 2020 she'll lose again for pretty much the same reasons.
    Benghazi?

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  11. #20791
    Donor Aea's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    12,472
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    If Hillary runs in 2020 she'll lose again for pretty much the same reasons.
    Benghazi?
    Goldman Sachs

  12. #20792
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 11, 2011
    Location
    Strayastan
    Posts
    8,276
    Russians

  13. #20793
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 13, 2011
    Location
    Bonding around
    Posts
    17,306
    Lack of penis
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  14. #20794
    thebomby's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    6,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Neoo Gabriel View Post
    I saved this, because I have a strong feeling 2017 is not going to be shiny happy people at all.
    Будь смиренным, будь кротким, не заботься о тленном
    Власти, данной Богом, сынок, будь навеки верным...
    Я люблю Росcию, я - патриот

  15. #20795
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 11, 2011
    Location
    Strayastan
    Posts
    8,276
    I have a feeling Ben doesn't quite 'get' the city on a hill ...

  16. #20796
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    The Motherland, OOS
    Posts
    25,542
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Lack of penis
    Is she too old for a sex change?

  17. #20797
    I swear Garrison becomes more of a meme every year

    His blogposts are pretty sad if you want to go trawl through them, there's a deeply damaged guy on the other side of the shitty pictures

  18. #20798
    Malcanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 12, 2011
    Posts
    12,627
    Quote Originally Posted by thebomby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neoo Gabriel View Post
    I saved this, because I have a strong feeling 2017 is not going to be shiny happy people at all.

    The next three years are going to be a thousand days of Krakatoa-magnitude schadenfreud, as 10s of millions of pasty chumps realise that voting for a rich son of a rich guy in order to "stick it to the elite" means that they've elected to be relentlessly butt fucked in order to win back the right to say nigger and faggot.

    gg, say nigger and faggot a lot. Say them every day. Those manufacturing jobs aren't coming back, and Trumps cabinet of billionaires and open nazis won't do shit for you, you dumb chucklefucks. They will try and get you to blame niggers and faggots for your disappeared jobs, your evapourating public services, your trigger happy police, though. And you'll do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  19. #20799
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    13,854
    And all could be avoided if stupid as fuck Hillary actually campaigned a tiny little bit in the midwest...


    

  20. #20800
    Alistair's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    In the Shadows of the Trumpian Empire
    Posts
    10,520
    There is some fun irony to the U.S. telling Israel they need to give back land and accept (it seems) millitant activity in those lands against them.

    How much land is the U.S. giving back to those it was stolen from, and how much rocket attacks would/do we tolerate were they to happen.

    Of course we all know that if the Arab states had beaten Israel, they would have happily given back all the land they took.

    What a funny world we live in.

    And that's before we get Trump in office, and the massive disaster he is almost assured to be.....
    "Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." Jean-Jacques Rousseau



Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •