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Thread: GamerGate - Srs Vrsn

  1. #1
    Steph's Avatar
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    GamerGate - Srs Vrsn

    General Chat thread was kind of a shitshow, let's see if we can do this properly with a second try.

    Brief summary from r/KotakuInAction.

      Spoiler:
    PREVIOUSLY I.E. HISTORICAL / RELEVANT INFORMATION
    • Zoe Quinn helps create a Startup, Dames Make Games in Toronto
    • Zoe Quinn Creates Depression Quest in 2012, using Twine, with Patrick Lindsey (Writing/Editing) and Isaac Shankler (music)
    • Word of mouth comments on metafilter, 4chan’s /r9k/, and /r/IndieGaming about the game Depression Quest on Launch, February 14th, 2013. limited attention is received.
    • Zoe Attends Indiecade Nightgames festival with Depression Quest
    • Zoe Quinn Decides to pull Depression Quest from Steam Greenlight Program after receiving harassment, threats and attacks, pointing to Wizardchan. December 13th 2013.
    • Allegations against Wizardchan are debunked, Collected 'dox' phone and addresses are proven to be false.
    • 2 weeks after removing the game, Resubmits into Greenlight Program to be approved on January 7th 2014
    • Yasmeena “Maya” Felix Kramer, who works as SilverString Media’s PR, attacks TheFineYoungCapitalist's (TFYC) site, obtains and posts information about the organisers of the competition, while in contact with Zoe Quinn on facebook.
    • Zoe Breaks up with Eron Gjoni, though the breakup is perturbed by Zoe’s disclosed Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) with evident depressive and suicidal, and manipulative episodes throughout the post.
    • Depression Quest is approved, just after news of Robin Willam's suicide, Zoe Debates if she should release the game on twitter and Tumblr posts. Asks for donations to go to iFred as acknowledgement.
    • Depression Quest is released on Steam.



    ZOEPOST
    • Eron Gjoni 's breakup post with Zoe Quinn
    • Other Forums pick up Eron’s post .
    • The “internet hate machine” taking notice of Zoe Quinn again. timeline here
    • Matt / SillySladar of The Fine Young Capitalists comments in a reddit post (thread since deleted) that his site has been DDOS attacked and ‘doxxed’ by Zoe Quinn (Maya Kramer) over libellous comments she made and misunderstood about the competition in March this year.
    • In the same thread, people from Wizardchan had collected logs of chat at the time that Zoe Quinn accused them of harassing her.
    • A youtube DMCA takedown of a Video repost of Eron’s post by MundaneMatt, coming from 'zoe quinn'
    • TotalBiscuit replying to the use of the DMCA to take down video content.
    • Several (9) Forums having threads and posts censored. The most prolific being reddit, which is still banning users based on keywords in the Games and Gaming subreddits.


    THEN (EVENTS OF THE 19TH AUGUST TO 30TH AUGUST),
    • Calls to blogs, games news sites and others for coverage
    • Phil Fish starts to abuse people on twitter, cancels Fez 2, Projects
    • Polytron Dropbox is hacked, business files are stolen
    • Phil Fish abuses person that accuses Zoe Quinn of abusing him at Phil Fish’s wedding on twitter, abuses TotalBiscuit
    • Phil Fish announces closing and sale of Polytron
    • Stephen Totillo of Kotaku debunks claim of Nathan Grayson writing about Zoe Quinn after relationship. Does not seem to be aware that the window of time is 1 day from the article being posted, to the relationship starting.
    • Lordkat, JonTron discuss the issue on their games video blog sites.
    • Donations to TFYC reach the point where they can choose an avatar, Vivian James is selected by /v/.
    • Eron Gjoni posts AMA on reddit /r/Drama. replies regarding Zoe Quinn, Maya Kramer are brought up.
    • Anita Sarkeesian releases 7th video in kickstarter funded Tropes of Women in Video Games series, on Hitman Absolution.
    • Joss Whedon tweets to femfreq / Anita Sarkeesian giving his support
    • Adam Baldwin tweets a video link, starting #GamerGate
    • Patreon Account of Zoe Quinn, gains over 500 supporters.
    • TFYC IndieGoGo site is hacked, closed, and then reopened.
    • JonTron replies to TimSchafer saying he didn’t like the message of Anita Sarkeesian’s video, is attacked by Tim Schafer of DoubleFine, Appears on co-optional podcast later that day.
    • #IStandwithJonTron tag is hijacked on twitter, allegedly organised on SomethingAwful forums.
    • Anita Sarkeesian receives Death threats via twitter, Asks for donations to FemFreq. forced to leave home for safety.
    • Zoe Quinn responds to Adam Baldwin on twitter.
    • Patricia Hernandez of kotaku revises her articles disclosing relationship with the game developer she had a relationship with, according to their new policy.
    • 14 Similar Stories about misogynistic gamers appear on multiple sites on the same day.
    • Games news sites start to comment on Gamer Culture / Reactions
    • Various Petitions come out ‘For’ gamers, ‘For’ women, ‘For’ ethical Standards.
    • Ex staff member of Silverstring talks about Maya Felix Kramer’s behavior on Eron's AMA
    • Zoe Quinn, Maya Kramer Attend PAX Prime
    • PAX discussion comes under fire when people talk about bloggers in the panel instead of journalists or press.
    • September
    • Other tags appear, #NotAllWomen and #NotYourShield.
    • Donations start to come in to the TheFineYoungCapitalists Developer program, including $6000+ from 4chan, to create Vivian James (Vidya Games), A caricature female gamer or Moe Chan / gijinka (ie a ‘cute’ anthropomorphism/mascot, e.g. OS-tan).
    • Christina Hoff Summers, of AEI talks publicly for gamers, links to breitbart article & the economist, is called out by Adam Weinstein of Gawker.
    • Jayd3Fox produces a mock video "Professional Victims vs Gaming Communites", is harassed online.
    • TheFineYoungCapitalists discuss a truce with Zoe Quinn and Silverstring Media, who represent Zoe Quinn about the TFYC program, the agreement falls through.
    • Allegations of the IGF chairman Brandon Boyer and judges for the IGF competition, being friends with and linked to SilverString Media when Zoe Quinn’s ‘Depression Quest’ and ‘Papers, Please’ won awards. IGF discusses the judging process 3 days later in response to questions about how the process works.
    • Zoe Quinn Posts IRC logs of 4chan, declares #GameOverGate with storify link of Alleged harassment and organisation.
    • a new hastag #GamerGateau about game themed cakes.
    • Allegations of racketeering and Indiecade/IGF awards for Fez/Polytron funding
    • Chris Grant of Polygon, admits to blocking 1800 twitter users from his twitter feed, including other journalists. Then removes the list within hours.
    • Storify content is debunked by MundaneMatt and others as disingenuous and implausible, showing out of context screenshots.
    • Examiner article notes that Tyler Malka (NeoGAF) supports the hashtag #GameEthics, to be a spillover from #GamerGate, proposed to remove '4chan involvement' from issues of integrity and independence in games journalism, with limited success.
    • Tyler Malka, Owner of NeoGAF then proceeds to abuse someone on twitter the same day.
    • #writeakotakuarticle hashtag is started.
    • Nathan Grayson interview with Blizzard goes off track discussing women in their MoBA game, Gets pulled into #gamergate discussion in social media.
    • Zoe Quinn links to an article on wikipediocracy, where they discusss people editing Zoe Quinn’s Wikipedia page, the article names all of the editors individually, citing photos, discussion of the editor’s reddit posting history, analysing their posting history, including the discussion of a transgender minor, and the high school they attend.
    • Zoe Quinn seeks to mediate discussion using a new tag, #OpenTheGates, with limited success.
    • TFYC IndieGoGo is fully financed at $65,000
    • Vivian James Platformer Prototype is created and playable online.
    • TheNerdist releases a video about GamerGate, gets called out by MundaneMatt.
    • Journalists investigate Anita Sarkeesian’s police report, assumptions are that it's missing due to the FBI being involved from a former photoshopped CP used in earlier online harassment.
    • Jennifer Hale (voice actor for Bioware, Mass Effect & ~300 Games/TV Shows) talks about this issue on Marketplace Tech Report on ‘Internet Slowdown Day’ for Net Neutrality awareness. zoe responds in /r/SRSGaming thread about hearing this interview.
    • Joe Rogan wants to interview Adam Baldwin on their podcast.


    Naturally, there's several different narratives going around, so as always do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

    Anyway, last thing of note I heard was Brianna Wu cancelled her appearance on Radio Nero at the last minute. Milo had cleared this week's roster for her - in addition to a laundry list of other accommodations he'd made, see the link - and consequently had to scrub the whole episode.
    Last edited by Steph; October 14 2014 at 10:05:43 PM.
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  2. #2
    Donor cullnean's Avatar
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    Good luck peace out

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  3. #3
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    Some more timelines and details

    The original Zoepost which start this whole thing. Why it's relevant? This is now being called "revenge porn" by the media and an attempt to slander her for the sake of slandering. The post reads more like a Rolling Stone article and is packed full of timelines, abuse, manipulation, and proof of said deeds in the form of screenshots and logs. It also is where the term "5 Guys Burgers and Fries" first comes to life when Quinn is admitting everything to his face.
    http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/

    Next is a timeline of events that led up to the entire thing. Click on the block arrows in the bottom right corner of the bubble for more details and links to the particular incident.

    This starts at the very beginning and Quinns initial involvement. It also makes known how she drew the ire of the internet long before the Zoepost was made.
    http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/en...12-04_12:25:06!

    Claims of harassment by Wizardchan. This is a website for clinically depressed men who are also Disney fans. You must be a virgin to have the title "Wizard".
    http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/en...12-12_10:36:31!

    Wizardchan responds with a large amount of details and screenshots about the entire thing.
    http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/en...04-11_04:08:17!

    The Fine Young Capitalists enter the scene
    http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/en...08-11_14:15:01!

    Things take off in a large way. Mundane Matt makes the first related video and details the corruption of games journalism. The timeline becomes infused with many events as GamerGate is born later and explodes into action on both sides. You'll see how specific names become involved and how they become irrelevant within the scheme of things. The latest post ends at Oct 12th (as of this writing) and is still being updated regularly.
    http://www.tiki-toki.com/timeline/en...08-16_05:44:28!

  4. #4
    ValorousBob's Avatar
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    Can I get a TL;DR of why I/we should care?

  5. #5
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    The OP is missing the oart where the 'gaming journalism' sites involved near-simultaneously put out the "end of gamers" articles.

  6. #6
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    Issue hits "mainstream" media, CNN:

    Behind the furor over #Gamergate


    By Brandon Griggs, CNN

    updated 9:00 AM EDT, Thu October 16, 2014

    (CNN) -- The threat of violence against feminist and gaming critic Anita Sarkeesian, which led her to cancel a speaking appearance this week at Utah State University, has refocused attention on a recent and often-misunderstood debate.

    It's called #Gamergate, with or without the hashtag, and it has triggered ongoing, online barrages between a wide variety of disgruntled people: video gamers, feminists, Internet trolls, scholars, misogynists, gaming-industry journalists and almost anyone else with web access and an ax to grind.

    "It's been the talk of video game professionals for the past two months," gaming critic Evan Narcisse said. "The culture wars that ... hit other creative media (are) hitting video games now."

    Even to those involved, #Gamergate is a confusing, unwieldy topic. So let's try to simplify it for you.

    What is #Gamergate?

    At its most basic level, it's a heated debate over journalistic integrity, the definition of video games and the identity of those who play them.

    On one side are the so-called hardcore gamers, most of them male, who make and play adrenaline-fueled games such as the "Call of Duty" shooter series. On another side are a new wave of gaming enthusiasts, many of them women, who are making and playing games that don't involve a shootout, a chase or sometimes even a quest of any kind.

    Then there are the others (see above) who smell a fight and have piled on. The vitriol, much of it aimed against women, has spilled from the Internet into the physical world. In recent months several women in the gaming industry say they received rape and death threats so specific they were forced to leave their homes.

    Some gamers have adopted "Gamergate" as the term for a loosely defined movement defending hardcore games against criticisms from feminists and others.

    How did it start?

    The roots of the dispute go back years. But the current debate began in late August, when Sarkeesian released the latest of her videos called "Tropes vs. Women," in which she critiques games that portray women as victims, ornamental eye candy and other archetypes.

    About the same time, game designer Zoe Quinn was attacked online by an ex-boyfriend who alleged in lengthy blog posts that she cheated on him with a journalist from gaming-news site Kotaku to further her career.

    Quinn denied the claim, and Kotaku's investigation found no wrongdoing. But furious gamers took to Twitter, Reddit and other places to complain about ethical lapses in gaming journalism. And both Quinn and Sarkeesian found themselves subject to violent online threats.

    Actor Adam Baldwin, best known for roles in "Full Metal Jacket" and the "Firefly" TV series, was credited with coining the #Gamergate hashtag later that month on Twitter. Opponents who feel the harassment of women has gone too far have countered with #StopGamergate2014, which was trending Wednesday.

    The arguments on both sides have expanded to include such other topics as free speech and perceived media bias against core gamers.

    Why are people so angry?

    The gaming universe has expanded beyond consoles in recent years to include players -- many of them women -- of casual and social games such as "FarmVille" and "Candy Crush." According to one survey, 48% of gamers are now female.

    More women also are entering gaming as developers or game reviewers. And increasingly they're speaking out about what they perceive as sexism in the industry.

    "For 30 years now video games have really been perceived as a boys' club. You've had video games made by men, for men," game designer Brianna Wu said this week. "And I think in 2014, when almost half of the video game players are women ... you're seeing some very insecure guys feeling threatened by that and lashing out."

    Many male gamers, of course, say they are horrified by the recent harassment of women. Others, though, say that feminist attacks on games are akin to censorship and they are tired of being lectured to by politically correct "social justice warriors."

    "There are now two, bitterly opposed, factions in the industry. Journalists and activists, who care more about gender politics than the video games they are supposed to be reporting on, and gamers, mocked, derided and bullied... but unbowed," wrote Milo Yiannopoulos in a September 1 Breitbart.com column titled "Feminist Bullies Tearing the Video Game Industry Apart."

    Can we resolve this?

    Maybe, but it will take time. The Internet is an unruly place.

    Just last weekend, Wu said she fled her Boston home after receiving threats on Twitter.

    As with any vast and diverse group, it will be difficult to get video gamers to agree on any strictures on their art form or community. But the ongoing threats against female gamers appear to be rallying support to the #StopGamergate side.

    On Wednesday the leading trade group for the video game industry weighed in.

    "Threats of violence and harassment are wrong," said a spokesman for the Entertainment Software Association in a statement sent to The Washington Post. "They have to stop. There is no place in the video game community -- or our society -- for personal attacks and threats."

    Ultimately, everyone will benefit by trying to defuse tensions between the two sides. And if gaming executives perceive that the treatment of female gamers reflects poorly on their industry, they may have no choice.
    "Insults are the arguments employed by those who are in the wrong." Jean-Jacques Rousseau



  7. #7

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    Probably the first reasonable article on this subject i have read: http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/1...and-gender-gam

    It's like written by a actual journalist, doing research and stuff and with sources.

    Interesting link from that article: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s644c0

    On the other spectrum of journalism:

    Brianna Wu and 8chan founder on huffpost: http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/seg...c90a43d9000be8

    Wu seems to milk this one for all that it's worth.
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  8. #8
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    GamerGate makes the front of the Huffington Post.

    HuffPo live makes its first live video including Brianna Wu (harassed dev), the founder of 8chan, and Erik Kaine (Forbes) named "Sexism and Misogyny in Video Game Culture".

    Wu is given more speaking time than the other two combined. (9m22s vs 2m57s & 3m46s) and at one point declares GamerGate worse than child pornography.

    http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/seg...c90a43d9000be8

    This first feed quickly goes viral as a slugmatch between the three and the comments section blows up for a full 24hrs to an extent that HuffPo realizes they're on to something bigger than thought. This leads to a follow up with the "Girls of GamerGate" live feed which debuts 3 pro-GamerGate women.

    Georgina Young @georgieonthego (Saga, Japan) Staff Writer at Gamesided
    Jennie Bharaj @jenniebharaj (Vancouver, Canada) YouTuber; Gamer
    Jemma Morgan @ShuluuMoo (London, United Kingdom) Gamer


    http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/seg...c90a71ff000157

    Despite the moderator attempting to push the "equal treatment of women" angle, the 3 women calmly explain how that has nothing to do with GamerGate, about the formation of GamerGate, and the reasons they support it. They also point out how the opposition has been pushing the "equality" angle as the focus and it's faults by doing so which gets the moderator a bit flustered. Sexism, feminism, LGBT, and even the term SJW (which the moderator finds offensive) are discussed.

    More HuffPo lives may be planned in the future. CBCNews (Canada) has started talks with Jennie Bharaj to discuss the subject as well after seeing the HuffPo live stream.


    These videos add to a long list of women in GamerGate videos that have been created since the initial hash tag was created.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNpTmEGw2J4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y419veD7M9w
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjdiC2ednok
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIYBgBdnYjc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCr5f9GA2P4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUiUc1ZtDdo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjpQwcxmMKk
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9-y1diqE2Q

  9. #9
    Donor Aea's Avatar
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    I went ahead and watched that first video. Here are my impressions:

    - Posting people's public information is not acceptable.
    - You have two morons arguing about the law they don't understand.
    - Brianna Wu seems to be exceptionally hyperbolic and paranoid.

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Global Moderator QuackBot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aea View Post
    I went ahead and watched that first video. Here are my impressions:

    - Posting people's public information is not acceptable.
    - You have two morons arguing about the law they don't understand.
    - Brianna Wu seems to be exceptionally hyperbolic and paranoid.
    My video is up.

  11. #11
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      Spoiler:


    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Canadians are usually cooler.
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  12. #12

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    I haven't had much time to look at this but can it be confirmed that this is mostly an argument between

    -A group of people with no lives who spend too much time socialising on the internet echo-chambers of their choice

    and

    -A group of people with no lives who spend too much time socialising on the internet echo-chambers of their choice


    finally reaching the critical mass necessary for it to boil over into public perception?

  13. #13
    Super Moderator DonorGlobal Moderator whispous's Avatar
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    My problem with GamerGate is that the news media has picked these false feminists' side in a battle between two awful sets of worthless people.

  14. #14
    big diiiiiiiiick Movember 2012Donor Dark Flare's Avatar
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    Video games are so sexist and sizeist, the male protagonists are always 6 feet wide and built like trains and they always pick on the geeky computer nerd side character.

    But I'm not going to cry about it.

    Because I'm not a woman.
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  15. #15

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    Gamergate in one image:
      Spoiler:
    Last edited by Itiken; October 18 2014 at 08:21:04 AM.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  16. #16
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    I think discussion on the topic might not be feasible until perhaps a year/two from now on (but still I appreciate the effort; "good luck, peace out"). As for now, I think gamers in general (whatever imaginary side we may have) could make a general effort to try to avoid people getting harassed or their life threatened and having to flee their homes (whatever the might have caused the harassment).

    However, I wanted to make this post because I recently read this, and found it quite interesting:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInActi...ying_ama_here/

    (I actually read the most of the AMA and got some answers as to why, for example, some GG advocates don't want to form an organized consumer advocacy group etc. There's some bits of good discussion that went on, so you all might find it interesting as well.)

    Edit: Steph, I think you write well and I've seen you have very civil discussion. However, your OP lacks a question you'd like us to discuss, it's just a timeline of events (as is Keorythe's post below). What would you want to be discussed in this thread?
    Last edited by Timaios; October 17 2014 at 05:31:22 PM.

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  17. #17

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    If this truly is the "serious version" of the GG thread we all deserve, then I expect it to be full of serious discussion about the serious matters raised - eg investigating corruption within the Games journalism industry.

    Blogs, links, journalism.

    Go.

    I was reading through - the "balanced piece" linked above (edit incoming) bbut hit this paragraph and gave up.

    I do have personal experience with the gamers' mortal enemies, the so-called "social justice warriors," to know they can be a highly toxic Internet presence. Those who voice their loathing of "the SJWs" are not simply talking about people sympathetic to socially progressive causes but about cultist zealots who enforce the party line with the fervor of Mao's Red Guards, though luckily without the real-life power.
    fuck it Gamerwhatever is whatever you want - if you can even parse this sort of shit without some kind of aneurysm you deserve all the 'mainstream media attention' you get


    oh found the ref:
    Quote Originally Posted by Irrelephant View Post
    Probably the first reasonable article on this subject i have read: http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/1...and-gender-gam

    It's like written by a actual journalist, doing research and stuff and with sources.
    Like all other 'rsonable articles' what you menat to say was:

    "here is a post that agree's with my view on the whole thing and you are stupid if you think otherwise because the author provides FACTS"

    enjoy them

    peace out

    pps i'd liek to echo this:

    Edit: Steph, I think you write well and I've seen you have very civil discussion. However, your OP lacks a question you'd like us to discuss, it's just a timeline of events. What would you want to be discussed in this thread?
    Last edited by Itiken; October 18 2014 at 12:50:43 AM.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  18. #18
    Steph's Avatar
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    Alright, sure - it was my hope that we could discuss GamerGate without requiring a formal, rigid list of topics but if y'all think that would be helpful then let's put one together.

    Since I consider myself pro-GG, I don't know that I'm the best person to present a list of things to talk about - such a list would reflect my own biases, and I believe for any useful discussion to occur that such a list needs to be as neutral as possible.

    Suggestions?
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    I was reading through - the "balanced piece" linked above (edit incoming) bbut hit this paragraph and gave up.

    I do have personal experience with the gamers' mortal enemies, the so-called "social justice warriors," to know they can be a highly toxic Internet presence. Those who voice their loathing of "the SJWs" are not simply talking about people sympathetic to socially progressive causes but about cultist zealots who enforce the party line with the fervor of Mao's Red Guards, though luckily without the real-life power.
    fuck it Gamerwhatever is whatever you want - if you can even parse this sort of shit without some kind of aneurysm you deserve all the 'mainstream media attention' you get
    Or you could realize that most journalists like using fancy words and skip to the meat...

    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    oh found the ref:
    Quote Originally Posted by Irrelephant View Post
    Probably the first reasonable article on this subject i have read: http://reason.com/archives/2014/10/1...and-gender-gam

    It's like written by a actual journalist, doing research and stuff and with sources.
    Like all other 'rsonable articles' what you menat to say was:

    "here is a post that agree's with my view on the whole thing and you are stupid if you think otherwise because the author provides FACTS"

    enjoy them

    peace out
    > shits up first page with 5km jpeg
    > asks for hard evidence oozing with sarcasm
    > can't read past the intro of an actually quite balanced and researched article
    > instead throws temper tantrum without any counter arguments

    How can you expect anyone to have a "serious" discussion with you? If you are really super srs, how about you put that image in a fkn spoiler, read that article from start to finish, check some of the sources and than we can actually have a discussion?

    relephant:

    “The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you.”
    ― Werner Heisenberg

  20. #20

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    How can you expect anyone to have a "serious" discussion with you? If you are really super srs, how about you put that image in a fkn spoiler, read that article from start to finish, check some of the sources and than we can actually have a discussion?
    OK lets break it down shall we? (and i've even spoilered the image ebcause you seem to be upset)

    1. I read the article. Well. i skimread it. It's practically identical to all the other 'pro' pieces out there.
    2. It is pretty simple to pull a article from 'the other side' out, post it claiming 'absolute journalism by a journalist'
    Lazy coverage of Gamergate is only feeding this abusive campaign There you go.

    now you don't have to agree with it and I don't expect you, Kereothe (i can never spell that guy) or so on to at all. What i expect is to have a few lines you dislike picked up on, straw-manned to fuck then the entire piece/side/article dismissed because it's on the wrong side. The echochamber as it's been so aptly put has become so all-emcompasing and the sides so polarised that any post from 'the wrong side' is wrong.

    Essentially, everything that can be said at this point has been said. until either side starts doing anything actually new, eg GG doing real journalism about the ethics thing / or the other lot doing whatever they are expected to do, then you may as well jsut read the other thread, ingest the sides/articles/posts and save yourself some effort.

    You claim to want to have a serious balanced discussion, linking in your own words, a 'quite balanced' article that right from the offset paints anyone on 'the other side' as a psycho.....

    I do have personal experience with the gamers' mortal enemies, the so-called "social justice warriors," to know they can be a highly toxic Internet presence. Those who voice their loathing of "the SJWs" are not simply talking about people sympathetic to socially progressive causes but about cultist zealots who enforce the party line with the fervor of Mao's Red Guards, though luckily without the real-life power.
    The few paragraphs below that feel accurate but biased, and i disagree with almost all of the 4 conclusion points.

    my personal opinion is the entire thing si a shitty, bitchy mess and the best thing to do is roll it all up, stick it in a drum and seal it in 200 cubic meters of concrete and drop it into the earth's core. Take what lessons from it YOU want to and move on.
    Does that cover you up?

    bonus content:
      Spoiler:
    It’s time for reasonable people to pull away. To form something else. To take everything they’ve learned about agitation and protest, and apply it in a very different way. Don’t have all this on your conscience.

    We need to create an industry in which people can question practices and conventions, but also where all are welcome and safe. For a start, however, we need to create an industry in which, whatever you think of their views, people don't get chased out of their homes. (ed)
    Last edited by Itiken; October 18 2014 at 08:52:13 AM.
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

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