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Thread: Zekk Pacus' I am not good at naming these hardware thread, Feb '15

  1. #1381
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikar View Post
    AMD becoming good again, what?

    I'm considering buying a new PC but at this stage am essentially clueless; I haven't paid any attention to new releases for about 4-5 years. Any suggestions on where to start? (OP looks abandoned, or is it still relevant?)
    What will you be using the PC for and are you going to build it yourself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

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  2. #1382
    Shaikar's Avatar
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    Playing games mostly, and general internet shenannigans.
    Happy to build it myself, it's been a while but unless things have changed drastically it's pretty much like lego.

    I don't really care about overclocking and the like for it's own sake, the main thing is I'd like something that can run things on highish settings without crying and preferably will last another 4-5 years before needing a kick.
    Last edited by Shaikar; March 2 2017 at 05:12:42 PM.

  3. #1383
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    Well I wouldn't recommend one of the new AMD chips if you're not planning on doing something that can utilize all 8 cores. What's your budget and where would you be buying the parts online?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  4. #1384
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Practically this Ryzen 7 is the biggest shake-up in ~6 years, and Intel have already reacted by dropping their prices.
    I'd wait a few months if you can, and see what the mid-ranged Ryzen releases bring. No doubt some 4-6 core, 8-12 thread chip will be released with equal or possibly higher single thread burst clockspeed & performance, for less than the top-end 7 costs.
    If you won't/can't wait months, at least wait a few days/weeks and get a not-totally-bleeding-edge-investor price Ryzen, or be sure Intel doesn't follow up with an immediate additional price decrease. Or at least ensure you're paying the best price for an item, rather than any extra for sudden dip in availability/peak in demand. I imagine quite a few people have been waiting for this resumed price war. Now that most ambiguity is clearing up, triggers will be pulled on delayed purchases.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  5. #1385
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Well I wouldn't recommend one of the new AMD chips if you're not planning on doing something that can utilize all 8 cores. What's your budget and where would you be buying the parts online?
    I think things will look much better for Ryzen in games in a week or two when more in-depth and less rushed testing can be done. There's a fairly major issue at the moment that causes the 8-core Ryzens to lose performance when Windows moves a thread from one 4-core block to the other. This, along with BIOS memory timing bugs, is what's causing the performance drop in games. The fix is trivial, but very few reviewers knew about it.

  6. #1386
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    Regarding my i7 5820k
    It does not run super hot, and the overclock is decent. I get 6x 4.1 Ghz up from the default 3.3 (or 3.7 with boost)
    But it's easily hitting 60 - 70 C
    People overclock the same chip to 4.5Ghz with similar cooling and getting less heat.
    I just remember mine never hitting 60 C .. but then again .. maybe I remember wrong.

    Anyhow, I ordered Noctua NT H1 paste. Will make some before and after benchmarks.


    ______________________________________

    Very in depth and chill ryzen review:
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  7. #1387
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    Is U2715H still the go-to 27' 1440p IPS monitor? Its hovering around 450 eur and im considering grabbing one, mostly for work at home (2 monitors almost mandatory for dev job) and ofc for some 1440p gaming goodness.
    <Devec> hello captain Tyrehl
    <Devec> sailor of the persian seas
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox
    I swear you are some sort of biological weapon developed in the early '90's for the Yugoslav wars but they lost track of you at some point and now you're waging a psychological war on Western Europe without a clue what you're doing.

  8. #1388
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Multi-monitors at 27" each?
    My U2515H has been great so far, very thin bezels too if I were to try fit multiple >24" things on a small desk.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  9. #1389
    root's Avatar
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    I have 3x U2527H and love them, put do you really want to miss out on high herz and *sync? Or ultrawide?
    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  10. #1390
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    I have one 24" dell, this 27 would be the new primary.

    Edit: high refresh rate I don't care about, not playing csgo so I don't need the skill boost either huehue
    Ultrawide looks cool but my budget is 500 and ips with solid build is a must.
    <Devec> hello captain Tyrehl
    <Devec> sailor of the persian seas
    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox
    I swear you are some sort of biological weapon developed in the early '90's for the Yugoslav wars but they lost track of you at some point and now you're waging a psychological war on Western Europe without a clue what you're doing.

  11. #1391
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    Quote Originally Posted by root View Post
    Regarding my i7 5820k
    It does not run super hot, and the overclock is decent. I get 6x 4.1 Ghz up from the default 3.3 (or 3.7 with boost)
    But it's easily hitting 60 - 70 C
    People overclock the same chip to 4.5Ghz with similar cooling and getting less heat.
    I just remember mine never hitting 60 C .. but then again .. maybe I remember wrong.

    Anyhow, I ordered Noctua NT H1 paste. Will make some before and after benchmarks.
    It isn't necessarily the thermal paste (I use MX-1 for example).

    Depends a lot on what motherboard you're using. I suspect I actually killed my 4930k with overclocking (voltage degradation) and I'm looking into what I did wrong (can't find anything tbh, which is awful). Usually it's the VTT that kills it, depends on the motherboard and RAM voltages as well (how stable they are etc).

    Anyway, looking into getting a 4960X from somewhere and see if it can carry 64GB RAM better than this one could (my old deceased 4930k could do 4.1GHz). Dunno how good the new one will go, though, got some killer Elpida PSC RAM sticks to test it out and then work from there.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.
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  12. #1392
    root's Avatar
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    I changed the thermal paste, did not change anything. At most 1 - 2 C

    Encoding a h264 file again for 5 minutes + pre run.
    Stock clock with turbo to 3.6ghz

    Current | Min | Max | avg


    post thermal change. The room temperature might have been 1 - 2C higher Forgot to measure it.




    CPU fans where fixed at 50%, case fans at 25%.
    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  13. #1393
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    They could be lower but I'm not seeing a big problem with those load temps

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  14. #1394
    root's Avatar
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    yup, I think it's tine.

    Adjusted fan cure, overclocked to 4.3ghz (did before, but never stable)
    Now I upped the voltage to 1.260

    Cores stay under 70, average 61 to 67C.
    But package is 76c


    Is that something to worry about?
    Currently rendering in blender and encoding with ffmpeg. Would have given my a bluescreen with my old overclock.
    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  15. #1395
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    Aren't newer intel chips rated for 70C maximum? I know older Q6600/9550s could get quite hot with no problem but my current i5 was listed at a maximum load temperature of 70C from intels specs

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  16. #1396
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    Quote Originally Posted by 56k Lagman View Post
    Aren't newer intel chips rated for 70C maximum? I know older Q6600/9550s could get quite hot with no problem but my current i5 was listed at a maximum load temperature of 70C from intels specs
    I found this:
    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answer...html#r14890994

    Standard ambient is 22C, upon which Intel's Thermal Specification "Tcase" is based. Tcase for your i7 5820K is 66C - http://ark.intel.com/products/82932/...up-to-3_60-GHz

    Tcase is CPU temperature, not Core temperature. Core temperature runs 5C higher than CPU temperature due to sensor location. Tcase +5 makes the corresponding Core temperature 71C. Throttle temperature is 100C.

    When you put it all together it looks like this:

    Standard Ambient = 22C
    Tcase (CPU temp) = 66C
    CPU / Core offset + 5C
    Tjunction (Core temp) = 71C
    Tj Max (Throttle temp) = 100C

    Mid-70's are fine for everyday real-world workloads.

    Maximum recommended core voltage for 22 nanometer processors with respect to "electromigration" is 1.300.
    The Rapier is my love boat
    ~lowsec smallscale pvp 'n stuff~

  17. #1397
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    4930K came back from RMA. Apparently it's the motherboard that's fucked. GG.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.
    Six shooters ruined PvP.
    What are you doing with your life?İDoomchinchilla 2015

  18. #1398
    Mallet Head Donor 56k Lagman's Avatar
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    Who RMAs a cpu lmao

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckslayer View Post
    I should be home.now but I keep stopping to post. I'm in need of a mega poo. so much so that I'm tempted to leave slurry across one of these gardens and deal with the wiping later. gonna toss a coin

    phoneposting

  19. #1399
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    I did and it was no questions asked warranty directly from Intel

    Symptoms showed RAM unable to run as before and the sticks are all healthy, so it was CPU or motherboard, guess which one is easier to remove from the whole mess.
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.
    Six shooters ruined PvP.
    What are you doing with your life?İDoomchinchilla 2015

  20. #1400
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    So gather round children and let uncle Blind tell you the story about whether or not you should buy the new Ryzen processor.

    In order to understand that, we need to explain one thing first. Ryzen is a HUGE upset in the CPU market. Let me put this into perspective in some ways.
    First, let's try this view:
    For the better part of the last decade, there was only one viable CPU vendor for gamers, and that was Intel. Intel had a lineup of CPUs, the i3/i5/i7 line that were all more (i5/i7) or less (i3) relevant to performance seeking gamers.
    The usual advice was to get an i5 for gaming since they covered the nice middle ground between price and performance. Performance was always "good enough" (keep that in mind, we'll need that line later on)
    Since the Ryzen launch, the only Intel CPU that is still better for current games is the i7 7700K, the top of the line super high clockspeed i7 version. All other Intel CPUs are matched. We're talking about something like 10-15 relevant performance segment CPUs being relegated to the budget segment!
    That's one huge upset, isn't it?

    Let's try another view:
    The Ryzen launch currently has problems with software support. The architecture is different from what Intel build their 8 core CPUs like and as a result, Windows 10 doesn't know how to handle it properly. Also, the CPUs were pushed to market and mainboard manufacturers were scrambling to get their UEFIs up and running.
    Basically, Ryzen is 2x4 core CPUs on one chip and whenever Windows 10 moves a tread (something for the CPU to do) from one "core" to the "other", there's a huge performance penalty. Windows 10 does that all the time, btw.
    Reportedly there was an UEFI update a week before the official launch date that increased performance by 25%. Re-read that number. That's in the ballpark of the performance increase of the last several Intel CPU generations!
    On top of that, there are performance differences between motherboard vendors. That was a thing back in the olden days of the late 1990s and early 2000s but for the last 10 years or so, you bought your mainboard on features, not performance. This will probably also go away, but I'm mentioning it in order to further illustrate the huge upset that Ryzen created.
    Also, that Windows 10 issue I talked about above? Windows 7 doesn't have it (because 7 was build with different Intel CPU architectures in mind, those were much more like the current Ryzen architecture) and the performance gap between Win7 and Win10 is somewhere around 15%. This is fixable, by the way. And MS is already working on it.

    Now, you might have somewhat guessed it above, but of course current software (games is what we care about in this context of course) is optimized for Intel CPUs. Because Intel CPUs were the only competitive gaming CPUs over the better part of the last decade and of course almost everybody wants their games to run well, so they optimize. And they do it for the prevalent architecture, so Intel.
    Many of those games will not receive a Ryzen patch. Some might, but I'd guess most won't. So for old games, the current performance is what you'll get. That of course does not include performance increases because of better UEFI and better Windows support, those you will get for all games.

    So, now that we've got a decent overview of the current situation and why Ryzen is performing the way it does (remember that we're talking about Ryzen matching or outperforming all but the very very best Intel CPU!), here's my story for you if you want to buy a Ryzen CPU now.

    Don't buy now, wait for at least another 2 months.


    > But uncle Blind, that's a horrible story and telling us to wait is super boring advice! Surely you, with your knowledge and wisdom can show us a glimpse of the future to come? Please uncle Blind?

    Well then, let's try to take a glimpse into the future.

    Let me preface that with the disclaimer that I'll tell you what I think will happen. No guarantees.

    First, the performance level of Ryzen will ryse (top bants!) by at least about another 10-15% in practical situations. By then, it'll beat most Intel CPUs in price/performance and beat or match all but the 7700k in pure performance.
    The performance gamer Ryzen to get will be the 1700 since it's at the best point regarding price / performance.
    The r5 and r3 versions that will come out with 4 or 6 cores should be regarded as budget solutions and will probably be priced as such.
    The 6 core version will suffer from the same basic issues as the 8 core version (it'll still be two cores in different combinations). This might become the best midpoint between futureproof and budget, assuming something of a 200$-ish pricepoint.
    The 4 core version will be one to watch, if it clocks significantly higher.
    However, it will suffer from the same basic issue that the 7700K will suffer from and that is that games are already moving towards better utilization of multiple cores (8 specifically because the consoles have 8 cores) and real cores are simply better that logical cores though Simultaneous MultiThreading (SMT, the generic name for what Intel calls Hypertreading).
    By the way, forget the crap AMD fanboys are shouting about streaming or content creation while gaming. What percentage of gamers actually stream? Or in other words, if it concerns you, you'll know.
    That's not the reason to get more cores for future proofing, console changes are. And it's going to be console titles that will be most demanding on your hardware, so those are the ones to watch for.
    Oh and yes, that tune was sung by AMD the last time around when they introduced their bulldozer (crapdozer? bullshit?) architecture. The issue back then was the AMD basically guessed that multitreading would be king and they guessed wrong/early by like 5 years. The difference today is that the change is already happening.

    And that's where we'll be in half a year: Assuming that the r3 matches the 7700K both of them will still be suboptimal choices for futureproof systems because while they (or just the 7700K) will be best for current games, they will max out and be overtaken by the true 8 core CPUs maybe even within 2017 but surely within 2018.
    Using a Ryzen r7 CPU you'll get maybe 15% FPS less than a 7700K. But we're still talking well above 60 FPS, usually in the ~100 range. Oh and yes, if you want above 100 FPS on ultra settings you're a special snowflake and will pay through the nose for the privilege. It'll mean getting a 7700K now and another CPU+mobo in 1-2 years time max instead of getting one that will keep for 4+ years.

    As always, if your system is still good enough, then waiting on the upgrade will always get you a better deal. Buy the system that's good enough for your needs. If all you play is <GAME>, then search for a <GAME> benchmark (actually, search for several). If you want/need 144 FPS@ultra details, open your wallet (no, you're probably not a competitive CSGO player and 200+ FPS won't affect your score). And if you want 4k resolution and ultra details before 2018, open your ...wallet. Wide.

    And as such, it all comes down to this: The Ryzen r7 CPUs will be good enough for current games and better for future ones. Wait for the teething issues the platform has to actually settle so we can see if my short-term predictions come true. Alas, storytime is over. You may have one last shitpost in General and then it's off to bed with you.
    Last edited by theBlind; March 9 2017 at 02:56:59 PM. Reason: r8 -> r7
    Tanks: theBlind[URBAD] (in my heart there will always be a place for [FAIL])
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