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Thread: World of Warships

  1. #6521
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    id just add that

    a) planes need to be slower and
    b) have slower reload times

    otherwise the meta is completely changed now, as noticed, blobl fleets are a go

    anecdotal evidence: just played a game in my cleveland
    focused by all enemy CVs and BBs from the start, shot down 13 planes, died in 2 minutes while constantly dodging, fun and engaging gameplay
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; February 1 2019 at 01:15:41 PM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  2. #6522
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    The new CV mechanics do seem significantly OP at the moment. The hard counter to CV's (DD's) are utterly fucked over by repeated bombings/rockets due to AA's near complete ineffectivness, unlimited planes and number of planes in a squadron. Seems the balance stick swung and missed by a country mile on this one.

    Who the fuck play tested these changes and thought it was fine? :/ It's so utterly stupid you have to wonder if the devs played the game at all without bots. It's not only the complete ease of which any carrier (or carriers) can attack at will, which was already the issue, but how, as indicated by shaft, the spotting system will allow a CV player to keep any ship perma spotted no matter the concealment or AA effectivness. It's seems to kill the game.
    Shitting up eve for .... well, longer than most of you scumbags.

  3. #6523
    Madner Kami's Avatar
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    Just noticing a few things:

    Those are not F4U Corsairs, these are F6F Hellcats, Wargaming. Come on, you had the correct planes on this ship before, why the change...



    Sigh... Nothing screams rushed development more than things like that...



    Why exactly are we using the fastest single-piston-engine german fighter of WW2 as a torpedo- and dive-bomber on the Graf Zeppelin? I mean, the Jericho-trumpets are lovely, but if you insist that the german dive- and torpedo-bombers have to be slow, then don't use the second fastest-prop-driven german fighter plane of the war as a model, but go for what is historically appropriate and use a JU87 or a derivative, even though their tiering would be kinda wierd. But don't mix this up like this... Come on...



    a) planes need to be slower and
    b) have slower reload times
    No. Just no. This is the kind of comment that got us to exactly where we are. You can't just nerf CV-playability without adressing other things at the same time. It's the exact same problem we had before the changes and people only crying that CVs are too powerful while completely disregarding the power of the counter-play or limitations of the carrier-gamepley at the same time. You can't make planes slower without increasing their damage potential. you can't make planes reload slower without nerfing AA. And don't you even begin to argue that AA is too weak, because either you miss some very specific details about AA-usability or you have never played a carrier. T4s are kind of in a cozy place for the moment, but their ability to fuck up the enemy is rather limited. T6+ are in a completely different place.
    Last edited by Madner Kami; February 1 2019 at 08:57:11 PM.

    "If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?" - xoxSAUERKRAUTxox

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  4. #6524
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    "It's a bit arse on destroyers".

    Being 3 shotted by a rocket squadron in a fully AA specced Gearing and how easily carriers now can deal with DD's shakes up the meta in such a bad way that if you think this is fine you lack such a fundamental understanding of how this game works it's not even worth discussing this with you.
    i still get quite decent games in Destroyers, granted i can't be arsed with anything above tier 8 so the highest tier carriers i ususally get is the 6/8 ones, and they aren't actually that bad to deal with, rocket-runs are basically impossible to dodge, but pure RNG, bombers and torpedo bombers can be evaded even in cruisers.

    you're punished for being in the middle of fucking nowhere, all alone but if you're instead trying to at least stay within reasonable range of the blob, the amount of incoming strikes are reduced (unless a massive hateboner is involved) and you can usually hug another ship for additional AA cover, US destroyers with their AA consumable are actually not too bad at popping planes either, even the ones with anaemic seconday AA guns like the Sims, Type 93 jap boats get shafted, as usual, but this is not surprising to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggbert View Post
    No counterplay against the new cvs at all. Sure you can blob up, but even then AA is so bad now planes hardly gets shot down, and if you do it doesnt matter since the cvs have inifinite planes.
    With the reduced range of AA across the board and the reduced concealment on all ships bar DDs (who are fucked by CVs even more now) carrier spotting is as good as ever and the team with the worse CVs still lose.
    So what changed for the better?
    the planes don't instantly regenerate, if you get all the planes in a flight, that's basically out for the count for 3-5 minutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaftoes View Post
    They need to revert the AA range nerfs and reduce the spotting range of air wings.
    that would bring back stealth AA, meaning you can run into shit like a DP cruiser that you cant see putting up a wall of flak and murdering your planes.
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  5. #6525
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Planes nearly instantly regenerate, or they regenerate to a speed you just pick another squadron @ full health and by the time you're done with that you can take the other squadron on the next turn. I know this, I've played CV's a little bit after the patch.

    Had a game yesterday in my Khaba. Up against a pretty incompetent carrier duo (Midway and Enterprise) and it was the most frustrating experience I've had in any game in memory. Seriously. Midway decided to go for me first, his rocket squadron managed to blap half of my hitpoints into the first few minutes of the game. Even though I was under the AAA umbrella of the other ships I spawned with, (on the left side of Northern Lights, spawned in the south) a Montana and Missouri. Carrier decided to focus elsewhere after a while because the cap contests where going on elsewhere and the Midway decided that he didn't want to deal with the DD who where forced to sail around aimlessly covering from the finger of god CV gamemode in my own spawn.

    After a while I managed to put my ship into the direction of the enemy again, being as sneaky as you can in a Khaba, when I discovered that the planes where spawning from the direction I was headed. A huge misplay as the Enterprise had decided to not move his ship at all from spawn. Surely such a huge misplay would not go unpunished in this game that has become the industry standard of balance and fairness according to Liare? First HE salvo, instafire. He repaired. Ok, that was the retarded auto repair mechanic kicking in. Hohoho finally I can be useful in this match. After 20-25 seconds I get another fire ... and ... repaired? What the fuck is this? Another double fire shortly after and ... repaired. It is literally impossible to get permafires on CV's?!

    By now I had drawn quite a lot of attention to myself offcourse so I was the focus not only by the Enterprise, but also the Midway. I managed to miraculously dodge and mitigate a lot of damage, but against this STATIONARY tier 8 ship, my tier 10 was no match, I was eventually grinded down by the never ending wave of planes that kept on coming. Every hit even though they didn't do much damage, knocked out rudders, guns, stearing, torpedo launchers. Module damage for days

    Retarded gamedesign is retarded.
    Last edited by helgur; February 3 2019 at 08:11:48 AM.

  6. #6526

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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Planes nearly instantly regenerate, or they regenerate to a speed you just pick another squadron @ full health and by the time you're done with that you can take the other squadron on the next turn. I know this, I've played CV's a little bit after the patch.

    Had a game yesterday in my Khaba. Up against a pretty incompetent carrier duo (Midway and Enterprise) and it was the most frustrating experience I've had in any game in memory. Seriously. Midway decided to go for me first, his rocket squadron managed to blap half of my hitpoints into the first few minutes of the game. Even though I was under the AAA umbrella of the other ships I spawned with, (on the left side of Northern Lights, spawned in the south) a Montana and Missouri. Carrier decided to focus elsewhere after a while because the cap contests where going on elsewhere and the Midway decided that he didn't want to deal with the DD who where forced to sail around aimlessly covering from the finger of god CV gamemode in my own spawn.

    After a while I managed to put my ship into the direction of the enemy again, being as sneaky as you can in a Khaba, when I discovered that the planes where spawning from the direction I was headed. A huge misplay as the Enterprise had decided to not move his ship at all from spawn. Surely such a huge misplay would not go unpunished in this game that has become the industry standard of balance and fairness according to Liare? First HE salvo, instafire. He repaired. Ok, that was the retarded auto repair mechanic kicking in. Hohoho finally I can be useful in this match. After 20-25 seconds I get another fire ... and ... repaired? What the fuck is this? Another double fire shortly after and ... repaired. It is literally impossible to get permafires on CV's?!

    By now I had drawn quite a lot of attention to myself offcourse so I was the focus not only by the Enterprise, but also the Midway. I managed to miraculously dodge and mitigate a lot of damage, but against this STATIONARY tier 8 ship, my tier 10 was no match, I was eventually grinded down by the never ending wave of planes that kept on coming. Every hit even though they didn't do much damage, knocked out rudders, guns, stearing, torpedo launchers. Module damage for days

    Retarded gamedesign is retarded.
    Fires last 5 seconds on carriers now. Flooding irc is 30.

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  7. #6527
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranial View Post
    Fires last 5 seconds on carriers now. Flooding irc is 30
    I wonder what the rationale was behind that decision.

  8. #6528

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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranial View Post
    Fires last 5 seconds on carriers now. Flooding irc is 30
    I wonder what the rationale was behind that decision.
    The automated damage controls probably (sadly).

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

  9. #6529
    Movember '11 Best Facial Hair, Best 'Tache Movember 2011Movember 2012Donor helgur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    i don't get what all the crying about the new carriers is about, the gameplay loop is fun, it's much less annoying to deal with incoming strikes and so forth.
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Possible boohoohoo? I only had one game in randoms and it was in a GK and a double CVs game. Didn't notice it was much worse or anything
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    more interested in if the fundamental gameplay is fun and engaging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    unlimited planes also means upping AA efficiency to increase plane casualties is not as problematic as it used to be
    Last edited by helgur; February 3 2019 at 09:48:19 AM.

  10. #6530
    Madner Kami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aranial View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Aranial View Post
    Fires last 5 seconds on carriers now. Flooding irc is 30
    I wonder what the rationale was behind that decision.
    The automated damage controls probably (sadly).

    Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
    90s reload and a 60s running time on the repair party, at least on the carriers I checked. Remember, you have basically no control over your carrier beyond autopilot as long as you control an air group and relinquishing control when beign attacked by a DD is almost always pointless. Also, the carriers seem to have gotten a beta version of the regular autopilot everyone else gets. I had not to switch on the collision avoidance system in any other ship or pre-flight carriers, but I somehow have to do that in the new carrier mode. The old autopilot turned my ship around when I set a waypoint vaguely behind my ship. The new autopilot moves my ship backwards -.-

    "If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?" - xoxSAUERKRAUTxox

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  11. #6531
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madner Kami View Post

    a) planes need to be slower and
    b) have slower reload times
    No. Just no.
    lol
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  12. #6532
    Madner Kami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Madner Kami View Post

    a) planes need to be slower and
    b) have slower reload times
    No. Just no.
    lol
    lolwhat? If you really think that blanket nerfing is going to solve issues that are based on bad combinations and WG being their usual terrible self at understanding the scaling-issues in their games, then go ahead and laugh. Like the video above. That tactic is utterly disgusting and OP as fuck, but what is the player really doing? He just spams torpedoes into the general direction of the enemy team. Now you nerf the plane cycling of the Hakuryu to specfically adress that one raised issue and what are you left with? The carriers that do play the game as intended get shafted, because they have to deal with AA, loose planes left right and center and then are going to idle on rocket planes against battleships. You solved that one issue and fucked everything else up even further in the process. This kind of knee-jerk reaction to specific issues is exactly what got us here in the first place.

    "If you get shot up by an A6M Reisen and your plane splits into pieces - does that mean it's divided by Zero?" - xoxSAUERKRAUTxox

    "A ship in port is safe; but that is not what ships are built for. Sail out to sea and do new things." - Rear Admiral Grace Hopper

  13. #6533
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    so things are fine as they are but they're not fine as they are? got it

    here's a couple more suggestions;

    flooding should do less damage or last shorter
    bring back manual steering on carriers as an option
    carrier autorepair needs longer cooldowns or needs not to be auto so carrier players need to multitask a little bit for a second or two to put out a fire
    carriers should have a limited number of planes, so they have to use them smartly or risk becoming toothless
    fighter planes should also be manual controlled so counterplay is a thing, hell, merge wowp and wows then
    all cruisers, regardless of tier, should also have a small heal
    put submarines in the game
    and then get rid of everything except submarines and carriers, just as in real life

    then it wouldnt be as big as a problem as it is
    Last edited by Lief Siddhe; February 3 2019 at 05:47:31 PM.
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  14. #6534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smegs View Post

    Who the fuck play tested these changes and thought it was fine? :/
    Likely the same retards that brought us the Graf Zeppelin balance changes
    Guns make the news, science doesn't.

  15. #6535
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    and then get rid of everything except submarines and carriers, just as in real life
    bitch you rang?

      Spoiler:

  16. #6536
    Lief Siddhe's Avatar
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    ah yes, how could i forget guided anitship missiles, that's the way to go
    I was somewhere around Old Man Star, on the edge of Essence, when drugs began to take hold.

  17. #6537
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    ah yes, how could i forget guided anitship missiles, that's the way to go
    what do you think carriers (via planes) and submarines shoot, pixie dust?

    anyways shit's fucked and yeah i spent 10 minutes being nagged by saipan rockets in a benson and nearly died to them but we won heavily

  18. #6538
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lief Siddhe View Post
    and then get rid of everything except submarines and carriers, just as in real life
    bitch you rang?

      Spoiler:
      Spoiler:

  19. #6539
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    I can also report that playing as a target (DD, CG or BB) is not very fun while being focused by two T10 CVs at the same time. Fuck this sky cancer.

    On the other hand, current ranked season has no carriers:

  20. #6540
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Planes nearly instantly regenerate, or they regenerate to a speed you just pick another squadron @ full health and by the time you're done with that you can take the other squadron on the next turn. I know this, I've played CV's a little bit after the patch.
    Today i learned that a timer between 40 seconds and 1.5 minutes, escalating with tiers no less, is instant.

    time flows strangely in helgurworld indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    Had a game yesterday in my Khaba. Up against a pretty incompetent carrier duo (Midway and Enterprise) and it was the most frustrating experience I've had in any game in memory. Seriously. Midway decided to go for me first, his rocket squadron managed to blap half of my hitpoints into the first few minutes of the game. Even though I was under the AAA umbrella of the other ships I spawned with, (on the left side of Northern Lights, spawned in the south) a Montana and Missouri. Carrier decided to focus elsewhere after a while because the cap contests where going on elsewhere and the Midway decided that he didn't want to deal with the DD who where forced to sail around aimlessly covering from the finger of god CV gamemode in my own spawn.
    AA umbrellas from Battleships are largely only useful in terms of defensive usage, the Missouri and Montana are both festooned in 20mm and 40mm guns without a DFAA cooldown, the 20mm goes from 0.1km to 1.5km, and you where not that close, the 40mm goes from 1.5km to 3.5km while the long range 127mm guns are actually quite anemic in terms of raw ompfh, especially if the carrier is dodging the flak puffs.

    as for spending time on hard-countering the Khaba like that, it's perfectly reasonable to explicitly single out the strongest destroyer in the game like that in that it means their team mates didn't have to deal with your bullshit destroyer for a time, oh sure it's not fun to be subjected to, but that can be said for any number of game mechanics in this game, it's not fun to spend the whole match dodging incoming shells because your cruiser has shit tier concealment, it's not fun to watch Battleships sit front-on-full-reverse for 15 minutes doing fuck all to each other in the process, but it's the game we've got.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    After a while I managed to put my ship into the direction of the enemy again, being as sneaky as you can in a Khaba, when I discovered that the planes where spawning from the direction I was headed. A huge misplay as the Enterprise had decided to not move his ship at all from spawn. Surely such a huge misplay would not go unpunished in this game that has become the industry standard of balance and fairness according to Liare? First HE salvo, instafire. He repaired. Ok, that was the retarded auto repair mechanic kicking in. Hohoho finally I can be useful in this match. After 20-25 seconds I get another fire ... and ... repaired? What the fuck is this? Another double fire shortly after and ... repaired. It is literally impossible to get permafires on CV's?!
    you realise that carriers has reduced fire time to 5 seconds right ? and that what you should be doing is firing AP into their functionally unarmored sides and getting citadels ?

    or maybe use those torpedoes, just sayin', he's sitting stock still as he's controlling squadrons after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post
    By now I had drawn quite a lot of attention to myself offcourse so I was the focus not only by the Enterprise, but also the Midway. I managed to miraculously dodge and mitigate a lot of damage, but against this STATIONARY tier 8 ship, my tier 10 was no match, I was eventually grinded down by the never ending wave of planes that kept on coming. Every hit even though they didn't do much damage, knocked out rudders, guns, stearing, torpedo launchers. Module damage for days
    and this is functionally different from getting focused by two players in any other class of ship, how ?

    Quote Originally Posted by helgur View Post


    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    i don't get what all the crying about the new carriers is about, the gameplay loop is fun, it's much less annoying to deal with incoming strikes and so forth.
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Possible boohoohoo? I only had one game in randoms and it was in a GK and a double CVs game. Didn't notice it was much worse or anything
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    more interested in if the fundamental gameplay is fun and engaging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    unlimited planes also means upping AA efficiency to increase plane casualties is not as problematic as it used to be
    explicit design choice, not sure i like it either, but is it that different from unseen torpedo soup ala-shimakaze?
    Last edited by Liare; February 3 2019 at 09:26:17 PM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

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