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Thread: Incoming Permaban Wave

  1. #21
    Lucence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jalif View Post
    TL;DR Bonus Room? I missed it apparently... what is this fuzz about?
    This appears to be unrelated to the bonus room incident. If you want to read about the bonus room regardless I posted earlier:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucence View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    if you are dumb enough to go through the bonus room shit you deserve the whole thing imo. Also the bans are imo retarded.


    http://jestertrek.blogspot.ch/2014/0...nus-round.html

    going by this as my whole info btw, if im missing something, my bad.
    The MB article is more informative but more verbose (three parts series).

    The best writeup is probably the one by DJFunkyBacon.

    Then again these bans seem unrelated to the bonus room. We're trying to get more information from ccp. Obviously csm help could be useful there.

    I would post more quotes/leaks but I already had to remove that from OP and people are asking me not to quote them. All I can say is the bans are hitting WIDE, got people from high, null, low, wh banned, grunt or alliance leadership level; some say they honestly don't even know what they got banned for.

  2. #22
    Ingame: Mari Eltera Jalif's Avatar
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    ThQ

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jalif View Post
    TL;DR Bonus Room? I missed it apparently... what is this fuzz about?
    TL;DR version.
    Person gets scammed and then enters the bonus room. During the course of a couple of hours the scammed person gets on comms, gives away all his possessions to scammers, has to do demeaning/silly shit on TS, has to pod himself back to a basic clone worth of SP. With the promise of lots of ISK. or something.
    Apparently there where multiple people who thought this was a good idea on both sides. CCP disagreed.

  4. #24
    I am the 99.99998% Tyrus Tenebros's Avatar
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    let's not have the discussion about the BR again.

    Let's focus on maybe getting some facts about who was actually banned, duration, reason, and scope of the removal in this incident? Not bringing up the spectre of the most pathetic of the scam/griefing lot will do a lot to keep more people on your side if many think that some of the banned were still within the bounds of propriety.
    I tried to be cool and all I got was a lousy warning about my sig being too big.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrus Tenebros View Post
    let's not have the discussion about the BR again.

    Let's focus on maybe getting some facts about who was actually banned, duration, reason, and scope of the removal in this incident? Not bringing up the spectre of the most pathetic of the scam/griefing lot will do a lot to keep more people on your side if many think that some of the banned were still within the bounds of propriety.
    It's still early, the bans were only handed hours ago. At first the wording of CCP Falcon ("harassment") was reminiscent of the sohkar episode so we thought bans were related to anyone involved in it, but we soon got reports from banned people saying they had never been involved in it in any way (wasn't on TS, didn't accept a contract, wasn't in the ingame chat channel), and others from people who were eyebrow deep in it and yet didn't get banned, so it must have been something else.

    So far we haven't been able to draw a complete picture, the only pattern seems to be people generally involved in griefing in some way. However I know of at least one banned person in a lowsec alliance who is apparently described as trustworthy and not into griefing; he claims to have no idea why he got banned. My understanding is CODE is surveying its ranks and all its PR is centralized with line members instructed to lay low (do not post GM logs, do not partake in flamewars etc.) while we figure out wtf exactly happened. BU is pinging logged off regulars through jabber/TS/IRC/Steam.

    We haven't heard anything back from CCP yet, besides CCP Falcon's cryptic message, and we don't expect anything for another few days if at all. This is why we concentrate our efforts on building a solid case we can submit to CSM members.

  6. #26

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    Interesting, let us know when you can come with an official statement while I'm .

    The hard thing in cases like this is that the 'prosecution and judgement' happens in secrecy, which allows 'convicts' to claim their innocence without contradiction. In general I understand the need for secrecy for privacy reasons, but I'd love for there to be an 'opt-out' mechanism where the convict can compel CCP to publish its evidence so he can allow others to make up their own mind of his guilt or innocence.

    In this case I doubt there are as many innocently convicted as some would like to have us believe, although it is possible a couple got caught in something they didn't do or actively participate in. The real issue will be where the line between 'innocent' and 'guilty' is drawn by CCP, how straight it is and how direct or circumstantial the evidence is. Players should have at least some idea of those things to be able to adjust their behavior and stay on the right side of the line of what is accepted or not. I personally have little sympathy for those who knowingly try to keep pushing and crossing boundaries and cry foul after they get caught, but feel bad if people genuinely did not mean to go beyond the acceptable but just did not know where the line was drawn.
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  7. #27
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  8. #28
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    Added latest/third reddit thread in OP, I'm going to try and keep it up to date. I'm going to schedule an interview tomorrow with a banned person who has no connection to BU or CODE, to try and find the underlying link between all bans. DJFunkyBacon got mailed by a few people. 3am, can only stay up late for so long until tiredness wins over spaceship justice warrior drive.

  9. #29

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    We have no idea the connection, if any, between the banned players and the bonus rounds. Falcon's initial statement suggests bans are related to bonus rounds or something similar. However, as more and more banned players come out, it is becoming clear this is some sort of sweeping action.

    It would be nice if CCP would give banned players some sort of detail beyond vague statements. Many have absolutely no idea why they are banned. Their friends don't know why they are banned. So, I ask that we see how this all plays out, but ask CCP pointed questions and encourage them to do the right thing for a change. So far it is apparent that the net was cast so wide plenty have been ensnared that quite literally have done nothing remotely "wrong" in any way. We know of 100's of accounts, possibly thousands. Many of these people only communicate within Eve so we won't hear from them. The nice guy you played with who never logs in anymore in your corp could be one of them.

    CCP is shooting themselves in the foot here with the inevitable forum/Reddit/external website coverage of this, much of which is fueled by their secrecy. The "bad press" CCP got prior to/around my ban was 90% their doing, not mine. As I have said for quite awhile, CCP needs to focus primarily on 2 things:

    1. Protect the Sandbox.

    2. Improve Transparency

    Right now, CCP is failing at these both and is going in the wrong direction. Eve is not WoW and never will be. Focus on Eve, period.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucence View Post
    CODE leadership corroborates those claims.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Interesting, let us know when you can come with an official statement while I'm .

    The hard thing in cases like this is that the 'prosecution and judgement' happens in secrecy, which allows 'convicts' to claim their innocence without contradiction. In general I understand the need for secrecy for privacy reasons, but I'd love for there to be an 'opt-out' mechanism where the convict can compel CCP to publish its evidence so he can allow others to make up their own mind of his guilt or innocence.

    In this case I doubt there are as many innocently convicted as some would like to have us believe, although it is possible a couple got caught in something they didn't do or actively participate in. The real issue will be where the line between 'innocent' and 'guilty' is drawn by CCP, how straight it is and how direct or circumstantial the evidence is. Players should have at least some idea of those things to be able to adjust their behavior and stay on the right side of the line of what is accepted or not. I personally have little sympathy for those who knowingly try to keep pushing and crossing boundaries and cry foul after they get caught, but feel bad if people genuinely did not mean to go beyond the acceptable but just did not know where the line was drawn.
    This.

    Patwa makes reddit thread speaking about Ban:
    "However, I can tell you that my participation in the bonus room was minimal at best - only x-ing up for contracts."

    Gets called out on prior comments about Bonus Room:
    Jester's Trek: The bonus round (how far is too far?) by SerpentineLogicin Eve

    []Patwa -5 points 5 months ago:
    "I'm friends with Erotica 1. I've made quite a bunch of ISK from the victims in the bonus room. We use TS not to avoid EULA stuff, but because it's funny.

    We also force people to pod themselves 20-50 times without updating their clone."


    Subsequently deletes reddit thread. Not all those claiming innocent may be so innocent despite the word of the upstanding citizens of CODE leadership.


    http://www.redditlog.com/snapshots/1005045

  12. #32
    Donor Sponk's Avatar
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    re Patwa:

    Contract stuff to Seraphina Amaranth.

    "You give me the awful impression - I hate to have to say - of someone who hasn't read any of the arguments against your position. Ever."


  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucence View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Virtuozzo View Post
    CODE leadership


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    FJGS, loyalanon, D400 etc.
    And nothing of value was lost.
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  14. #34

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    There are guys who legitly have not remotely come close to any sort of "grief" play whatsoever and are banned, so we don't know. Some are asking to remain anonymous, so I have decided not to post a list publicly. As more people get home from work or otherwise login to Eve on their normal schedule, some rather casual players, more names will come out. Many will never be known and will just go on to other games in disgust.

  15. #35
    ManuMilitari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erotica 1 View Post
    Many will never be known and will just go on to other games in disgust.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucence View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    if you are dumb enough to go through the bonus room shit you deserve the whole thing imo. Also the bans are imo retarded.


    http://jestertrek.blogspot.ch/2014/0...nus-round.html

    going by this as my whole info btw, if im missing something, my bad.
    The MB article is more informative but more verbose (three parts series).

    The best writeup is probably the one by DJFunkyBacon.

    Then again these bans seem unrelated to the bonus room. We're trying to get more information from ccp. Obviously csm help could be useful there.

    I would post more quotes/leaks but I already had to remove that from OP and people are asking me not to quote them. All I can say is the bans are hitting WIDE, got people from high, null, low, wh banned, grunt or alliance leadership level; some say they honestly don't even know what they got banned for.
    So they scammed someone out of isk and told him he could have it back if he did all the stuff they told him to do, is someone is so daft to go through with that id say its his fault and his alone. I dont see how this is ban worthy?
    If someone does something that CCP have made super clear is ban worthy then they're daft and it's their fault they get banned v0v

  17. #37
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManuMilitari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DaDutchDude View Post
    Interesting, let us know when you can come with an official statement while I'm .

    The hard thing in cases like this is that the 'prosecution and judgement' happens in secrecy, which allows 'convicts' to claim their innocence without contradiction. In general I understand the need for secrecy for privacy reasons, but I'd love for there to be an 'opt-out' mechanism where the convict can compel CCP to publish its evidence so he can allow others to make up their own mind of his guilt or innocence.

    In this case I doubt there are as many innocently convicted as some would like to have us believe, although it is possible a couple got caught in something they didn't do or actively participate in. The real issue will be where the line between 'innocent' and 'guilty' is drawn by CCP, how straight it is and how direct or circumstantial the evidence is. Players should have at least some idea of those things to be able to adjust their behavior and stay on the right side of the line of what is accepted or not. I personally have little sympathy for those who knowingly try to keep pushing and crossing boundaries and cry foul after they get caught, but feel bad if people genuinely did not mean to go beyond the acceptable but just did not know where the line was drawn.
    This.

    Patwa makes reddit thread speaking about Ban:
    "However, I can tell you that my participation in the bonus room was minimal at best - only x-ing up for contracts."

    Gets called out on prior comments about Bonus Room:
    Jester's Trek: The bonus round (how far is too far?) by SerpentineLogicin Eve

    [–]Patwa -5 points 5 months ago:
    "I'm friends with Erotica 1. I've made quite a bunch of ISK from the victims in the bonus room. We use TS not to avoid EULA stuff, but because it's funny.

    We also force people to pod themselves 20-50 times without updating their clone."



    Subsequently deletes reddit thread. Not all those claiming innocent may be so innocent despite the word of the upstanding citizens of CODE leadership.


    http://www.redditlog.com/snapshots/1005045
    I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.


    Well


    Not that shocked.

  18. #38
    מלך יהודים Zeekar's Avatar
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    In my 7 years of playing eve not a single person that actually was banned was innocent. So ccp has that going for them.


    

  19. #39

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    Since this Erotica guy has previously demonstrated how broken his moral compass is, I don't really trust his judgement on who legitly have not remotely come close to any sort of "grief" play whatsoever. Strange huh?
    - don't confuse the fact that I like to be right with the rumours that I actually might be -

    (DaDutchDude is in EVE hibernation in Some Random Corporation)

  20. #40
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    In even more important news, apparantly socratic was unbanned a while ago. Can anyone confirm?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

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