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Thread: "It just works" Linux aka "Anything better than Ubuntu?"

  1. #501
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    That's a lot of TB

    I still have yet to assemble a NAS and it's kinda bugging me. Why did you go for RAID software instead of ZFS on FreeNAS? Just asking, I'm looking at a potential thing where I add 1-2 drives from time to time instead of going full mental from the get go. Rather trying to get my feet wet and then at some point copy on it the things (once I feel confident enough I won't irreversibly break the data).
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  2. #502
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmin View Post
    That's a lot of TB

    I still have yet to assemble a NAS and it's kinda bugging me. Why did you go for RAID software instead of ZFS on FreeNAS? Just asking, I'm looking at a potential thing where I add 1-2 drives from time to time instead of going full mental from the get go. Rather trying to get my feet wet and then at some point copy on it the things (once I feel confident enough I won't irreversibly break the data).
    It is

    FreeNAS wasn't an option as this isn't a dedicated storage server, it is my workstation that I never turn off.

    ZFS is great if you install every drive you ever need day one.

    Software RAID will let me expand one or more disks at a time until I run out of SATA ports. Supposedly the array can be moved between computers as well if needed.
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  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Supposedly the array can be moved between computers as well if needed.
    Sounds like witchcraft, you devilfucker.
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  4. #504
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Supposedly the array can be moved between computers as well if needed.
    Sounds like witchcraft, you devilfucker.
    Now how difficult such a migration is I have no idea about. I'll guess that will be found out eventually. The first step is to build the array from 5 drives, copy the data across from the two old ones before growing the array larger using them. Interesting times ahead. It will also be interesting to see how long such an operation will take, might be a week or more.
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  5. #505
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    This is quite interesting (even more interesting that I seem to have forgotten how to type on a non ortholinear keyboard lol).

    So basically I should play with a Linux distro and just go from there with a software RAID? I'm looking to build a thing exclusively for storage rather than using my main workstation. ZFS states you can add disks to the pool though they're being a bit obscure about it. But it seems simple enough:

    When adding disks to increase the capacity of a pool, ZFS supports the addition of virtual devices, or vdevs, to an existing ZFS pool. A vdev can be a single disk, a stripe, a mirror, a RAIDZ1, RAIDZ2, or a RAIDZ3. After a vdev is created, more drives cannot be added to that vdev. However, a new vdev can be striped with another of the same type of existing vdev to increase the overall size of the pool. Extending a pool often involves striping similar vdevs.
    Source.
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  6. #506
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    If you go with a dedicated box FreeNAS might do. As for ZFS, say you have a 6 drive RAIDZ2 array, if you want to expand that you will need to add 6 drives at a time.
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  7. #507
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    I'm with you now, fair enough. Will start with 2 and add 2 for testing purposes and see where it goes. As with most things, the moment you tinker with it you understand it much better.
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  8. #508
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Btrfs also has many ZFS features (including expandable pools & auto-reduping on replacement) and isn't via a user-land shim on Linux iirc.
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    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  9. #509
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    So what's all this about Ubuntu dropping 32 bit support altogether?
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  10. #510
    Daneel Trevize's Avatar
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    Why not just use Debian and skip Ubuntu's Gnome/bespoke desktop UI delusions?

    P.S. Who's needing kernels 10 years newer than the hardware? What would you be missing out on in a system that sticks with their last 32bit build if you're running it on non-64bit hardware?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    Idk about that, and i'm fucking stupid.

  11. #511
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    Well I don't know, that's why I'm asking.

    EDIT: Apparently it's not just 32-bit hardware but 32-bit software
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  12. #512
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daneel Trevize View Post
    Btrfs also has many ZFS features (including expandable pools & auto-reduping on replacement) and isn't via a user-land shim on Linux iirc.
    Doing a bit of reading about BTRFS it seems anything beyond RAID 0/1/10 is experimental. Also not a good sign that RHEL did add it just to later remove it from their distribution.
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  13. #513
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    ZFS, especially on top of opensolaris or one of the successors, is an amazing file system, capable of operating petabytes of data.
    meh

  14. #514

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mashie Saldana View Post
    Also not a good sign that RHEL did add it just to later remove it from their distribution.
    I wouldn't read too much into this. If you're sat there comparing filesystem features or hand-building arrays measured in 10s of TBs you're no longer Red Hat's target market. We shifted to doing this in software across many machines years ago. They want you to deploy into Ceph or Gluster, and those products don't really care what the underlying disks run, so there's no value in investing in OS-level filesystems any more.

  15. #515
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    Read about Ceph. Fascinating. Also, you're kind of wrong, maybe those products don't care about what the underlying disks run, but there are recommended FS:

    XFS is the recommended underlying filesystem type for production environments, while Btrfs is recommended for non-production environments. ext4 filesystems are not recommended because of resulting limitations on the maximum RADOS objects length.
    So, at the end of the day, BTRFS is still sounding a bit dodgy. Yeah I'm not going to work with peta/exabytes of data, but I'm looking at something that should be reliable for a couple decades. Otherwise I'd just burn blurays.
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  16. #516

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    Right, but XFS has been the default in RHEL land for like six years now. It's been in the kernel for almost two decades. It's hardly cutting edge development. Red Hat spend almost no resources on it. What I'm saying is large-scale use of monolithic filesystems has been whittled town to a very small niche, so no one bothers to develop them or their features. So that RHEL dropped support for btrfs isn't necessarily a reflection of its capability or quality, just that for most purposes there's not really any such thing as a "better" file system any more (hah), so why have more than one?

  17. #517
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    All that said, I have personally seen better XFS performance than just about anything else on Linux in a production context, but like elmicker said, this is like a decade ago. Times and storage models have changed. Whatever you do, don't bother with JFS.
    meh

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmicker View Post
    Right, but XFS has been the default in RHEL land for like six years now. It's been in the kernel for almost two decades. It's hardly cutting edge development. Red Hat spend almost no resources on it. What I'm saying is large-scale use of monolithic filesystems has been whittled town to a very small niche, so no one bothers to develop them or their features. So that RHEL dropped support for btrfs isn't necessarily a reflection of its capability or quality, just that for most purposes there's not really any such thing as a "better" file system any more (hah), so why have more than one?
    Thank you for explaining, makes a lot more sense now
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  19. #519
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    So Valve have announced that, due to the above mentioned 32bit deprecation, Steam won't run on Ubuntu 19.10 onwards. Guess I will have to switch at some point, which is a pain and a disappointment: I have been very pleased with Ubuntu until now. There are 3 months until it becomes an issue, and 9 until it becomes a "jump or be pushed" situation, so I'm not in a desperate hurry.

    What are your recommendations for distros, ideally:
    1) Noob-friendly
    2) Low-fuss
    3) Not going to chimp out about nVidia drivers
    4) Reasonably up to date packages, idc about being "bleeding edge"
    5) I wouldn't mind giving KDE a try, but it's not a deal breaker
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  20. #520
    Mashie Saldana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    So Valve have announced that, due to the above mentioned 32bit deprecation, Steam won't run on Ubuntu 19.10 onwards. Guess I will have to switch at some point, which is a pain and a disappointment: I have been very pleased with Ubuntu until now. There are 3 months until it becomes an issue, and 9 until it becomes a "jump or be pushed" situation, so I'm not in a desperate hurry.

    What are your recommendations for distros, ideally:
    1) Noob-friendly
    2) Low-fuss
    3) Not going to chimp out about nVidia drivers
    4) Reasonably up to date packages, idc about being "bleeding edge"
    5) I wouldn't mind giving KDE a try, but it's not a deal breaker
    Any particular reason that you don't use the LTE releases? 18.04 will be supported for many years, hopefully until steam sort itself out.
    How to tell the difference between Machine Learning and AI:
    If it is written in Python it is most likely Machine Learning.
    If it is written in PowerPoint it is most likely AI.

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