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Thread: "It just works" Linux aka "Anything better than Ubuntu?"

  1. #961
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Munich tried in 2006, went back to MS in 2017 with the last machines changing in 2020. In 2020 the decision was made to try again in 2021.

    To be honest: why? They haven't managed to provide proper IT infrastructure to schools for example and now they want to make that switch?
    Munich reverted for political reasons as much as technical ones.

    There are good reasons for owning your own IT infrastructure. IT wares like operating systems are a 'strategic resource' in a way analogous to coal and steel and oil a century ago. Ultimately if you can't really trust your OS, then you can't trust anything in your IT ecosystem, and the same goes for cloud systems, productivity suites and so on. And if the Trumperium did nothing else, it's woken the other NATO nations to the unavoidalbe realisation that the US is less of an unconditional ally than it ever was, nor even one that can be relied on to act in its own obvious self-interest. And that's without even touching on China.

    The EU absolutely has the resources to push digital sovereignty. Its a sufficiently large internal market that they can do so without repercussions, and it's hard for US companies to complain about 'discrimination' when that means open standards and transparency. It's something they should have started in earnest a decade ago.
    I get the sovereignty part. I just doubt that Germany is in any position to do that. France, the Netherlands, Italy, Estonia? Sure. Germany? No.
    What is the block, in your opinion? Germany has money and talent so what makes them uniquely unable to do something Italy could do apart from get pasta right?
    German's general averseness to change, especially when it comes to digital. Most people paid by cash prior the pandemic, quite a few places did not even accept cards. Corona changed that a bit, but some places went back to cash only as soon as the third wave was over.

    I am a teacher and have been for 9 years now. Berlin has only this year rolled out email addresses for teachers, some states haven't done so yet. 2021, email addresses for teachers is a novelty. If that isn't crazy.

    A lot of administrative acts that citizens have to do (register place of residence, apply for welfare etc) have to be done in person, as there are no digital options at all.
    nevar forget

  2. #962
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Huh it sounds like where I work

    But such a technologically illiterate population is kind of irrelevant. They'll be no worse with windows than with linux
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  3. #963
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Huh it sounds like where I work

    But such a technologically illiterate population is kind of irrelevant. They'll be no worse with windows than with linux
    That population forms the people that will have to do that. They work in places where they can block that stuff. I've seen it happen repeatedly in the education field, my sister works for a federal agency dealing with broadband expansion.

    Anything digital is destined to fail here.

    Just as any other public project here. I mean Berlin's new airport was nine years late and five billion above budget. And that's just one example.
    nevar forget

  4. #964
    Specially Pegged Donor Overspark's Avatar
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    Yeah my German friends look upon my internet connection with envy, and I have fairly shitty internet for Dutch standards (VDSL). It's pretty odd.

  5. #965

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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Before relocating to Munich city, MS' headquarter was located in Unterschleißheim, which is part of the Munich county. So tax-wise, MS moved within Munich, just to a bigger HQ, as they outgrew the Unterschleißheim location.
    It's not me saying it is politically motivated. There was a lot of it in the run up to the announcement that I remember.
    BTW, I was wrong with my above assessment. Apparently there is a difference between the city of Munich and Munich county, at least what business tax is concerned. So yes, the city of Munich benefited from the HQ relocation.

  6. #966

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Munich tried in 2006, went back to MS in 2017 with the last machines changing in 2020. In 2020 the decision was made to try again in 2021.

    To be honest: why? They haven't managed to provide proper IT infrastructure to schools for example and now they want to make that switch?
    Munich reverted for political reasons as much as technical ones.

    There are good reasons for owning your own IT infrastructure. IT wares like operating systems are a 'strategic resource' in a way analogous to coal and steel and oil a century ago. Ultimately if you can't really trust your OS, then you can't trust anything in your IT ecosystem, and the same goes for cloud systems, productivity suites and so on. And if the Trumperium did nothing else, it's woken the other NATO nations to the unavoidalbe realisation that the US is less of an unconditional ally than it ever was, nor even one that can be relied on to act in its own obvious self-interest. And that's without even touching on China.

    The EU absolutely has the resources to push digital sovereignty. Its a sufficiently large internal market that they can do so without repercussions, and it's hard for US companies to complain about 'discrimination' when that means open standards and transparency. It's something they should have started in earnest a decade ago.
    I get the sovereignty part. I just doubt that Germany is in any position to do that. France, the Netherlands, Italy, Estonia? Sure. Germany? No.
    What is the block, in your opinion? Germany has money and talent so what makes them uniquely unable to do something Italy could do apart from get pasta right?
    To add to what Joe already mentioned: Germany's federal system seems to become more and more of a hindrance over the decades. While I in theory prefer a federal system over e.g. France's centralized government, it has more and more become a playground for political power games. Or mediocrity, if you like. State coalition governments are often composed of parties where one is in the national government coalition and the other an opposition party there = their state coalition agreement includes paragraphs on how to vote on certain federal decisions. The result of any regulation then often is the lowest common nominator aka "shit gets done".

    There are also technical aspects due to the above: a myriad of different applications for the same task. Often interlinked with other applications. Getting these dependencies sorted out and (the data) transformed for/imported into any new system is a nightmare and a disaster in the making.

  7. #967
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Malcy just ordered a nice new laptop and it's here saturday

    It is my intention to Linux it. I was thinking Not Ubuntu. I also want to bling the ever-living shit out of the desktop to make my brother sad and jealous. On my main PC I like a nice sparse simple functional look and Gnome is fine for that. But I want fucking rose gold spinner hubs on my laptop desktop. I'm thinking this means KDE? Show me your dankest conky (and upload scripts)!

    EDIT: After mature consideration I'm gonna give Garuda KDE a try. Doesn't matter too much if I fuck it up, which I probably will because part of the utility of it is that I can try stuff out without risking my main PC.
    Last edited by Malcanis; December 15 2021 at 07:54:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  8. #968
    Cosmin's Avatar
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    CentOS looks stunning imo and is the one I’m trying soon when I get a working Winblows clone working as intended just in case.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #969
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    It does look interesting! If/when the arch-based experiment goes tits up, then I'll give it a go. I wanted to try out an arch based distro, partly because I've heard it impresses girls, but also because I'm SteamDeck-curious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  10. #970
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Laptop arrived a day early. Malcy has new preciousss. Now to fuck around with it!

    NB: God damb these modern devices are reluctant to let you get to the BIOS to jigger with the boot options, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  11. #971
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Laptop arrived a day early. Malcy has new preciousss. Now to fuck around with it!

    NB: God damb these modern devices are reluctant to let you get to the BIOS to jigger with the boot options, huh?
    Windows preinstalled? If so: settings, recovery, advanced start-up "restart now", troubleshoot, advanced options, click UEFI button, restart, ???, profit.

    Alternatively there are tools that will restart into UEFI directly.
    nevar forget

  12. #972
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Yeah I worked it out eventually. But jeez.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

  13. #973
    Joe Appleby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Yeah I worked it out eventually. But jeez.
    Hammering F2 or DEL also works probably, as it always has been.
    nevar forget

  14. #974
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    Also there's a lot more fuckery to get a non-UEFI OS booting, it's infuriating to say the least. Every BIOS reset will reset the boot options. This is just giga-annoying with my new platform at least, took me 2 damn hours to understand why my NVME wouldn't boot.

  15. #975
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Im an old man now so I hate change

    EDIT: yes I realise that this does not go well with buying new gen IT hardware and then installing a rolling release Linux distro on it, however being old also means telling young people to shut up when they say things I don't like hearing.
    Last edited by Malcanis; December 19 2021 at 09:31:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    And btw, you're such a fucking asshole it genuinely amazes me on a regular basis how you manage to function.

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