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Thread: St Louis - Muskets Thread (USA civil unrest)

  1. #21
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orar Ironfist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcanis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordax View Post
    America is a police state. I've seen soldiers less kitted out than those "cops"
    It's almost like time changes and gear gets updated.
    Except your police force is not supposed to be armed like your military. Literally no good can come of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  2. #22
    Tetsuo's Avatar
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    The paintball guns shoot paintballs filled with pepper spray. I've been in a group that was hit by those and it sucks.


    What fucking idiot thought the police should be wearing something that looks similar to MARPAT should probably be fired for gross stupidity though.

  3. #23
    Lana Torrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    The paintball guns shoot paintballs filled with pepper spray. I've been in a group that was hit by those and it sucks.


    What fucking idiot thought the police should be wearing something that looks similar to MARPAT should probably be fired for gross stupidity though.
    Yeah. Dont they know its grey and black for urban combat. Green and tan is for wilderness.
    Quote Originally Posted by lubica
    And her name was Limul Azgoden, a lowly peasant girl.

  4. #24
    Keorythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    The paintball guns shoot paintballs filled with pepper spray. I've been in a group that was hit by those and it sucks.


    What fucking idiot thought the police should be wearing something that looks similar to MARPAT should probably be fired for gross stupidity though.
    Yeah. Dont they know its grey and black for urban combat. Green and tan is for wilderness.
    Sheriff dept has been using olive drab for a while now and many SWAT teams are picking up on it. City SWAT teams will often operate in rural areas with heavy vegetation. Grey is the only urban camo that's really half effective and black is just worn for distinction and intimidation factor. There just isn't any real downside to wearing actual camo in an urban area either since the diversity of colors found everywhere makes it a fruitless endeavor. SWAT teams want as much intimidation factor as they can muster as it will make a potentially hostile individual take pause and be too scared to fight or at least hesitate.

    Confirmed reports that the paintball markers are using solid rubber/plastic shot as well. So far they've been very effective breaking up crowds but I worry that someone gets their eye shot out with those things.

  5. #25
    Takon Orlani's Avatar
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    http://www.ksdk.com/videos/news/loca...8/14/14042891/

    News crew gets gassed

    Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

  6. #26

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    Police Story:
    Two unarmed men and a cop get into a fight in a 2 v 1 situation, cop ends up shooting one of them multiple times. Assuming it is true seems more justified than the recent events of 7 cops gang piling and killing a black man passively resisting or gunning down a black teen with a toy guy walking through the toy isles of a store.

    Unless things have changed recently I was not impressed with the unarmed training US cops received and would put money on a bouncer over an average cop in a fight without weapons. That's not to say I haven't known some cops that could kick ass, but they didn't receive that knowledge from police training.

  7. #27
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Police Story:
    Two unarmed men and a cop get into a fight in a 2 v 1 situation, cop ends up shooting one of them multiple times. Assuming it is true seems more justified than the recent events of 7 cops gang piling and killing a black man passively resisting or gunning down a black teen with a toy guy walking through the toy isles of a store.

    Unless things have changed recently I was not impressed with the unarmed training US cops received and would put money on a bouncer over an average cop in a fight without weapons. That's not to say I haven't known some cops that could kick ass, but they didn't receive that knowledge from police training.
    That's bullshit cop shot the kid with his hands up infront of witnesses.

  8. #28
    Takon Orlani's Avatar
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    http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9...events/3271930

    Quality stream recordings of last night.

    I live 20 minutes west of these events. I'll do what i can to give perspective and info.

    Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk

  9. #29
    tHornton's Avatar
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    i fought hte law and the, the law shot me with highly powered automatic rifles just outside my own home




  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Police Story:
    Two unarmed men and a cop get into a fight in a 2 v 1 situation, cop ends up shooting one of them multiple times.
    The individuals actually pushed the police officer back into his vehicle. The shooting took place inside of it with the assailant on top of the officer.

    Unless things have changed recently I was not impressed with the unarmed training US cops received and would put money on a bouncer over an average cop in a fight without weapons. That's not to say I haven't known some cops that could kick ass, but they didn't receive that knowledge from police training.
    The most training police receive in riot control is during your academy training. Riots are just rare and most depts don't want to spend that kind of money. It's bad planning but that's just how it works. You'll notice in the videos below that the outifits worn by the officers from various depts range from nothing more than a long stick and helmet to full tac gear. Again, you dept has a budget and they can be stingy with it. They would rather spend it on barricades (multi-use) and maybe body armor.

    http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9...ideos/59166942

    Except your police force is not supposed to be armed like your military. Literally no good can come of this.
    Well, that picture is of a SWAT officer, but lets put that aside for a moment. Humor me? Why not?

  11. #31
    tHornton's Avatar
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    i needed vodka cos i
    i had none

    i fought the law and the law won


    also they shot me with pepperspray and tear gas




  12. #32
    Tetsuo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    The paintball guns shoot paintballs filled with pepper spray. I've been in a group that was hit by those and it sucks.


    What fucking idiot thought the police should be wearing something that looks similar to MARPAT should probably be fired for gross stupidity though.
    Yeah. Dont they know its grey and black for urban combat. Green and tan is for wilderness.
    Sheriff dept has been using olive drab for a while now and many SWAT teams are picking up on it. City SWAT teams will often operate in rural areas with heavy vegetation. Grey is the only urban camo that's really half effective and black is just worn for distinction and intimidation factor. There just isn't any real downside to wearing actual camo in an urban area either since the diversity of colors found everywhere makes it a fruitless endeavor. SWAT teams want as much intimidation factor as they can muster as it will make a potentially hostile individual take pause and be too scared to fight or at least hesitate.

    Confirmed reports that the paintball markers are using solid rubber/plastic shot as well. So far they've been very effective breaking up crowds but I worry that someone gets their eye shot out with those things.
    Except that there is, because their job is policing and not urban combat. And I can tell you from experience that the more heavy handed the police appear to be, and the more adversarial to protestors they come off as, the more people take an adversarial stance to the police and the more they are unlikely to cooperate or want to see violence done to the cops. You don't fucking defuse a situation where the cops are seen as using disproportionate force by showing up in fucking combat gear. It's stupid as fuck and tomorrow night the violence is probably going to be even worse now that the police have provided all kinds of images of drawing down on lone unarmed black guys while waving M4s around.

  13. #33
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xanral View Post
    Police Story:
    Two unarmed men and a cop get into a fight in a 2 v 1 situation, cop ends up shooting one of them multiple times.
    The individuals actually pushed the police officer back into his vehicle. The shooting took place inside of it with the assailant on top of the officer.

    Unless things have changed recently I was not impressed with the unarmed training US cops received and would put money on a bouncer over an average cop in a fight without weapons. That's not to say I haven't known some cops that could kick ass, but they didn't receive that knowledge from police training.
    The most training police receive in riot control is during your academy training. Riots are just rare and most depts don't want to spend that kind of money. It's bad planning but that's just how it works. You'll notice in the videos below that the outifits worn by the officers from various depts range from nothing more than a long stick and helmet to full tac gear. Again, you dept has a budget and they can be stingy with it. They would rather spend it on barricades (multi-use) and maybe body armor.

    http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9...ideos/59166942

    Except your police force is not supposed to be armed like your military. Literally no good can come of this.
    Well, that picture is of a SWAT officer, but lets put that aside for a moment. Humor me? Why not?
    Because the cops go around murdering people and getting off free?

  14. #34
    i mow lawns for a living Rai Deo's Avatar
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    From what I've read so far, it seems like the timeline of events went:
    • sunday night/monday morning protest is held, Fergusen police show up in riot gear, protest turns violent. multiple stores looted, Quickstop set on fire, Ferg police station broken into.
    • monday backup from STL county police arrive, start tossing teargas and firing rubber bullets at new peaceful protests
    • tuesday news crews show up, STL police make air traffic/road traffic unaccessable to newsgroups, start telling protesting crowds to stop filming. fire rubber bullets/teargas into everyone, including reporters

    Last I read wednesday they've started using sonic weapons and FBI has shown up to start coordinating police.
    edit: formatting

  15. #35
    tHornton's Avatar
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    didnt the feds roll up armed for fuckin war with APCs and shit




  16. #36
    Keorythe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuo View Post
    The paintball guns shoot paintballs filled with pepper spray. I've been in a group that was hit by those and it sucks.


    What fucking idiot thought the police should be wearing something that looks similar to MARPAT should probably be fired for gross stupidity though.
    Yeah. Dont they know its grey and black for urban combat. Green and tan is for wilderness.
    Sheriff dept has been using olive drab for a while now and many SWAT teams are picking up on it. City SWAT teams will often operate in rural areas with heavy vegetation. Grey is the only urban camo that's really half effective and black is just worn for distinction and intimidation factor. There just isn't any real downside to wearing actual camo in an urban area either since the diversity of colors found everywhere makes it a fruitless endeavor. SWAT teams want as much intimidation factor as they can muster as it will make a potentially hostile individual take pause and be too scared to fight or at least hesitate.

    Confirmed reports that the paintball markers are using solid rubber/plastic shot as well. So far they've been very effective breaking up crowds but I worry that someone gets their eye shot out with those things.
    Except that there is, because their job is policing and not urban combat. And I can tell you from experience that the more heavy handed the police appear to be, and the more adversarial to protestors they come off as, the more people take an adversarial stance to the police and the more they are unlikely to cooperate or want to see violence done to the cops. You don't fucking defuse a situation where the cops are seen as using disproportionate force by showing up in fucking combat gear. It's stupid as fuck and tomorrow night the violence is probably going to be even worse now that the police have provided all kinds of images of drawing down on lone unarmed black guys while waving M4s around.
    Great in theory but it doesn't work like that in real life. Riot control is an old game and the non-adversarial look has been tried and kicked to the wayside. It didn't work and even European nations have taken note and made adjustments. If you needed a crowd dispersed you went in bats swinging or as the Euro's like to do today "kettle" the crowd. But with technology it's now tear gas, microwaves, sound emitters, and a host of other non-lethal things. And it really wasn't much different from times before. During the Andie Griffin days the cops didn't have SWAT teams so regular untrained line officers brought Tommy Guns and shotguns to the party.





    Instead of having to call in the National Guard to deploy which could take days, many departments opted to equip themselves to handle these kinds of situations.

    Protective armor is another innovation. Rocks, molotovs, and sharp debris puts the hurt on any non-armored officer. You really want to be covered up like a Stormtrooper when that stuff is coming towards your head.

    Now if you're talking about the over use of SWAT teams for regular domestic events then that's a different story. But for riots or high risk demonstrations then it's definitely in their best interests to go heavy.

  17. #37
    i mow lawns for a living Rai Deo's Avatar
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    Fort Leonard Wood is literally 3 hours away from St Louis, even a preliminary deployment from the national guard would take hours, not days.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    That's bullshit cop shot the kid with his hands up infront of witnesses.
    As I said it is the police's side of the story and has seemed to be the trend of the more recent news posts on it. Until it goes to trial we probably won't have a clear picture (unless I missed some video footage of the incident) of what happened. In comparison to the other 2 incidents I mentioned where 1 had video footage available and the other looked very bad for the police even under their own accounting of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keorythe View Post
    The most training police receive in riot control is during your academy training. Riots are just rare and most depts don't want to spend that kind of money. It's bad planning but that's just how it works. You'll notice in the videos below that the outifits worn by the officers from various depts range from nothing more than a long stick and helmet to full tac gear. Again, you dept has a budget and they can be stingy with it. They would rather spend it on barricades (multi-use) and maybe body armor.
    Valid point and I don't really blame lack of riot training. I meant more of just in general unarmed training seems to be a bit lacking. Now given my sample size has only been within my own state (Georgia).

  19. #39
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    Cops going on trial yeah right. They are already saying the evidence is corrupted because news interviewed the witness.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Cops going on trial yeah right. They are already saying the evidence is corrupted because news interviewed the witness.
    They had like five days to get in there and interview them first but they didn't.

    I'm thinking back to the london riots, and while the UK does kettle and go in with horses against peaceful protesters it did precisely fuck all about the riots.
    Personally I think that was intentional. Whether they wanted chaos to stop the police cuts, thought it would defuse the situation, or they knew they didn't have the manpower to actually control the situation is hard to say.

    edit: also the UK does have lrad and deploys them regularly at the O2. Plenty of pictures online for this if you search, I think again it shows this stuff is good for crowd control of "innocents" but not actually as effective against riots.
    Last edited by TheManFromDelmonte; August 14 2014 at 02:55:43 PM.

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