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Thread: St Louis - Muskets Thread (USA civil unrest)

  1. #11541
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    I'd like to see that, because everytime I hear of a ban coming out of California, the proposed law is an outright ban on possession. Plenty of states have successfully got the job done and won their legal challenges by NRA and other rights groups, so it would seem the problem lies with the laws you are trying to write, not the objective you are trying to achieve.
    There is a sale and transport ban in effect. The law in question is for the elimination of the devices, or their removal from the state.
    The former is legal application of law, the latter is an abridgment of peoples rights. Which is exactly my point, you cannot simply just make people into criminals like that no matter how much you want to do so.

  2. #11542
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    I'd like to see that, because everytime I hear of a ban coming out of California, the proposed law is an outright ban on possession. Plenty of states have successfully got the job done and won their legal challenges by NRA and other rights groups, so it would seem the problem lies with the laws you are trying to write, not the objective you are trying to achieve.
    There is a sale and transport ban in effect. The law in question is for the elimination of the devices, or their removal from the state.
    The former is legal application of law, the latter is an abridgment of peoples rights. Which is exactly my point, you cannot simply just make people into criminals like that no matter how much you want to do so.
    Well, how do controlled substances work then? At one point cocaine was legal.
    meh

  3. #11543
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    I'd like to see that, because everytime I hear of a ban coming out of California, the proposed law is an outright ban on possession. Plenty of states have successfully got the job done and won their legal challenges by NRA and other rights groups, so it would seem the problem lies with the laws you are trying to write, not the objective you are trying to achieve.
    There is a sale and transport ban in effect. The law in question is for the elimination of the devices, or their removal from the state.
    The former is legal application of law, the latter is an abridgment of peoples rights. Which is exactly my point, you cannot simply just make people into criminals like that no matter how much you want to do so.
    Well, how do controlled substances work then? At one point cocaine was legal.
    Firstly, Cocaine is still legal to possess with the right paperwork, some people are even prescribed it because they are allergic to more common numbing agents like Novocaine.

    Secondly, there is no constitutional right to posses controlled substances.

  4. #11544
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    I'd like to see that, because everytime I hear of a ban coming out of California, the proposed law is an outright ban on possession. Plenty of states have successfully got the job done and won their legal challenges by NRA and other rights groups, so it would seem the problem lies with the laws you are trying to write, not the objective you are trying to achieve.
    There is a sale and transport ban in effect. The law in question is for the elimination of the devices, or their removal from the state.
    The former is legal application of law, the latter is an abridgment of peoples rights. Which is exactly my point, you cannot simply just make people into criminals like that no matter how much you want to do so.
    Well, how do controlled substances work then? At one point cocaine was legal.
    Firstly, Cocaine is still legal to possess with the right paperwork, some people are even prescribed it because they are allergic to more common numbing agents like Novocaine.

    Secondly, there is no constitutional right to posses controlled substances.
    So there is a permitting process to bypass the ban, as is usual with these things, and, where exactly is > 10 round magazine enumerated in the constitution?
    meh

  5. #11545
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    muh constitution

    muh grandfathering

    muh right to arm bears

    muh industry activism

    Chance of having your child gunned down like a rabid dog is a small price to pay for these things

  6. #11546
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    muh constitution

    muh grandfathering

    muh right to arm bears

    muh industry activism

    Chance of having your child gunned down like a rabid dog is a small price to pay for these things
    Yeah, like I said, I don't really care anymore. I just hope they let me install a motion activated CIWS on my roof to keep the weirdo's with guns out of my yard.
    meh

  7. #11547
    Straight Hustlin's Avatar
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    I mean I could try to explain the nuanced differences between the protections afforded to something that is covered under a constitutional right and its limitation vs something that was merely permitted and an accepted practice but you will simply follow it up with more whataboutism in your quest to be right and charge ahead with your preferred, untenable solution instead of taking the time to understand why your method continues to fail and adapting it to push a solution that can actually be implemented.

    To put it simply and frankly; There is a way to get rid of high capacity magazines, but it will take a generation for them to be completely phased out. Every year you spend trying to get rid of them immediately is another year you are wasting to getting rid of them at all. The only thing blocking meaningful change is your impatience to allow that change to happen.

  8. #11548
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    I mean I could try to explain the nuanced differences between the protections afforded to something that is covered under a constitutional right and its limitation vs something that was merely permitted and an accepted practice but you will simply follow it up with more whataboutism in your quest to be right and charge ahead with your preferred, untenable solution instead of taking the time to understand why your method continues to fail and adapting it to push a solution that can actually be implemented.

    To put it simply and frankly; There is a way to get rid of high capacity magazines, but it will take a generation for them to be completely phased out. Every year you spend trying to get rid of them immediately is another year you are wasting to getting rid of them at all. The only thing blocking meaningful change is your impatience to allow that change to happen.
    It's been 18 years since the sale was banned, and yet they still proliferate, and are used in mass shooting events.

    And there you have it Yurops. A fascinating microcosm of the gun control debate, where the 63% of the citizens of a state can be sued by an organ of the gun industry and be forced to accept > 10 round high capacity magazines, even though most of them literally voted not to allow them to exist.

    We'll get right on that whole ban all guns thing.
    meh

  9. #11549
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Just gotta wait for them all to stop working and hope in the meantime that your friends and loved ones don't happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Because grandfather clause.

    By the way https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause
    The original grandfather clauses were contained in new state constitutions and Jim Crow laws passed by white-dominated state legislatures from 1890 to 1908 in most of the Southern United States to restrict voter rolls and effectively prevent blacks, Mexican Americans (in Texas), and poor whites from voting. Prohibitions on freedmen's voting in place before 1870 were nullified by the Fifteenth Amendment.
    really

    makes

    you

    think

  10. #11550
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Just accept it as American culture and try not to die


    Poland treats me like shit and I hate them as a result of it

  11. #11551
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    muh constitution

    muh grandfathering

    muh right to arm bears

    muh industry activism

    Chance of having your child gunned down like a rabid dog is a small price to pay for these things
    Yeah, like I said, I don't really care anymore. I just hope they let me install a motion activated CIWS on my roof to keep the weirdo's with guns out of my yard.
    better not end up killing the one Fedex guy who actually delivers first-go.

  12. #11552
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    muh constitution

    muh grandfathering

    muh right to arm bears

    muh industry activism

    Chance of having your child gunned down like a rabid dog is a small price to pay for these things
    Yeah, like I said, I don't really care anymore. I just hope they let me install a motion activated CIWS on my roof to keep the weirdo's with guns out of my yard.
    better not end up killing the one Fedex guy who actually delivers first-go.
    As long as they stick to the path and their arrival window, it should be ok.

  13. #11553
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    muh constitution

    muh grandfathering

    muh right to arm bears

    muh industry activism

    Chance of having your child gunned down like a rabid dog is a small price to pay for these things
    Yeah, like I said, I don't really care anymore. I just hope they let me install a motion activated CIWS on my roof to keep the weirdo's with guns out of my yard.
    better not end up killing the one Fedex guy who actually delivers first-go.
    As long as they stick to the path and their arrival window, it should be ok.
    Then be careful not to mistake imperial & metric units in your programming.

  14. #11554
    Malcanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alistair View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Straight Hustlin View Post
    Dont worry guys I am sure California will implement some intelligent gun laws to make sure this can't ever happen again.
    Well, we've tried, but then the NRA sues us to get a law literally more than 60% of Californians voted for (Prop 63) overturned. We the people overwhelmingly voted to limit magazines to 10, but the NRA sues, and won, and at the point I want a rooftop CIWS and fuck it.
    California also voted to ban gay marriage. Twice.

    Prop. 22 won (banning it in 2000) 61.4% to 38%.

    Prop. 8 won (banning it in 2008) 52% to 47%.

    Both were sued and struck down.

    That's how Constitutional rights go. The folks who lose have the right to challenge, and they often win. Sometimes that's good (gay marriage), sometimes that's bad.

    Perhaps California can lead with the way by proposing a National Constitutional Amendment and/or Constitutional Convention of the States, since that is what it's going to take.

    Plus, how can YOU of all people be against guns? When you have all the righties up against the wall, are you planning on shooting them with kisses?
    Why do people keep going on about the constitution, as if the gun nuts would actually respect such a change?
    Quote Originally Posted by Keieueue View Post
    I love Malcanis!

  15. #11555

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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    These massacres are just part and parcel of living in the USA. Nothing will prevent them barring a unified cultural movement against gun violence where people willingly hand in their weapons which will never happen.
    Honest question: isn't that already the case, though?

    I seem to remember polls after mass shootings in the Obama era, where a good majority of the U.S. population was in support for stricter gun laws. It's just that the NRA et al have more influence than the majority of the (voting) people.

  16. #11556
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    These massacres are just part and parcel of living in the USA. Nothing will prevent them barring a unified cultural movement against gun violence where people willingly hand in their weapons which will never happen.
    Honest question: isn't that already the case, though?

    I seem to remember polls after mass shootings in the Obama era, where a good majority of the U.S. population was in support for stricter gun laws. It's just that the NRA et al have more influence than the majority of the (voting) people.
    Have you actually read his post?

  17. #11557

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    I thought the cash-to-kill ratio of the tarpit America setup in Afghanistan for the Russians back in the 80's was efficent, but this just goes way beyond that.

    With (in country terms) inconsiquential donations to the NRA, the Russians have managed to propagate a political message that kills an incredible number of Americans every year.

    Credit where credit is due Razor; Whoever came up with that is an evil genius.

  18. #11558
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    This is not the first article dealing with this phenomena and it probably won't be the last ~

    The people who think mass shootings are staged

    Mass shootings in the United States are a depressingly familiar occurrence. But why do conspiracy theories spring up and spread so rapidly online in the aftermath of such horrific events?
    As an aside, this (radicalization by false narrative media) is demonstrably not unique to America: a recent example would be the rapid radicalization of Darren Osborne, recently convicted for his van attack on Finsbury Park mosque last year.

  19. #11559
    pesadelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    muh constitution

    muh grandfathering

    muh right to arm bears

    muh industry activism

    Chance of having your child gunned down like a rabid dog is a small price to pay for these things
    I even don't get how do people in the states live their life , knowing that you can get gunned down literally anyware and that you are hopeless to change that reality.

    Ps:I live in Portugal (yurup ) I don't even remember in my life time a mass shooting in my country, but maybe that is the same has in the USA , some small pockets retain some safety and others are Detroit.

    Enviado do meu SM-G900F através do Tapatalk

  20. #11560
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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