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Thread: Wargaming/Painting/Modelling

  1. #6201
    Nobody_Holme's Avatar
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    Just going to point out I played against a guy (in an X-Wing Worlds Qualifying match) who had painted his models to look like they were unpainted.
    It was mildly amusing. And he was pretty good (for a guy running mostly naked Z95s for the joke he was amazing).

  2. #6202
    DevilDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranziel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Well, 40K is kinda a crappy game without cool painted models to look at.
    Lol.

    I've never played 40k, so I can't speak to that community. For Warmachine and Infinity, I've never seen a tourney that required paint to any degree, though most would have a best painted award. The only exception I can think of was maybe WM Masters at GenCon or something - biggest tourney of the year and organized/run by PP themselves.

    Locally (within ~300km) everyone is super laid back about painting, and almost always about proxies too. (By the by, WYSIWYG Infinity doesn't exist IMHO, other than OC converters.) Painted armies are greeted usually with admiration, but I've never seen anyone have an issue with an unpainted army, tourney or no.

    For my perspective - I do find it more fun playing against a painted army, because I like admiring paint jobs. But I would never have second thoughts about playing someone without paint, nor would I comment about it. Unless it was a friend of mine I wanted to tease.
    warmachine is a better 'game' than 40k but it's limited in comparison, infinity more so, you never really get past 'skirmish' with those, the one thing 40k does better is scale, this latest edition was a fairly big change but they actually listened to players and did playtesting outside their office in addition to going all the way back to 2nd ed and everything in between to pick out good mechanics that could be incorporated. Scales well all the way up to apocolypse with super-heavies and titans now.

  3. #6203

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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eranziel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Well, 40K is kinda a crappy game without cool painted models to look at.
    Lol.

    I've never played 40k, so I can't speak to that community. For Warmachine and Infinity, I've never seen a tourney that required paint to any degree, though most would have a best painted award. The only exception I can think of was maybe WM Masters at GenCon or something - biggest tourney of the year and organized/run by PP themselves.

    Locally (within ~300km) everyone is super laid back about painting, and almost always about proxies too. (By the by, WYSIWYG Infinity doesn't exist IMHO, other than OC converters.) Painted armies are greeted usually with admiration, but I've never seen anyone have an issue with an unpainted army, tourney or no.

    For my perspective - I do find it more fun playing against a painted army, because I like admiring paint jobs. But I would never have second thoughts about playing someone without paint, nor would I comment about it. Unless it was a friend of mine I wanted to tease.
    warmachine is a better 'game' than 40k but it's limited in comparison, infinity more so, you never really get past 'skirmish' with those, the one thing 40k does better is scale, this latest edition was a fairly big change but they actually listened to players and did playtesting outside their office in addition to going all the way back to 2nd ed and everything in between to pick out good mechanics that could be incorporated. Scales well all the way up to apocolypse with super-heavies and titans now.
    Yeah, Warmachine and especially Infinity as gaming systems don't work that well at 40k's scale (I.e. number of models).

    That does make for an interesting point though - these lower model count games are easy going on painting while GW wants paint on everything, even though they can have an order of magnitude more models in a list.

  4. #6204
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eranziel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Eranziel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dorvil Barranis View Post
    Well, 40K is kinda a crappy game without cool painted models to look at.
    Lol.

    I've never played 40k, so I can't speak to that community. For Warmachine and Infinity, I've never seen a tourney that required paint to any degree, though most would have a best painted award. The only exception I can think of was maybe WM Masters at GenCon or something - biggest tourney of the year and organized/run by PP themselves.

    Locally (within ~300km) everyone is super laid back about painting, and almost always about proxies too. (By the by, WYSIWYG Infinity doesn't exist IMHO, other than OC converters.) Painted armies are greeted usually with admiration, but I've never seen anyone have an issue with an unpainted army, tourney or no.

    For my perspective - I do find it more fun playing against a painted army, because I like admiring paint jobs. But I would never have second thoughts about playing someone without paint, nor would I comment about it. Unless it was a friend of mine I wanted to tease.
    warmachine is a better 'game' than 40k but it's limited in comparison, infinity more so, you never really get past 'skirmish' with those, the one thing 40k does better is scale, this latest edition was a fairly big change but they actually listened to players and did playtesting outside their office in addition to going all the way back to 2nd ed and everything in between to pick out good mechanics that could be incorporated. Scales well all the way up to apocolypse with super-heavies and titans now.
    Yeah, Warmachine and especially Infinity as gaming systems don't work that well at 40k's scale (I.e. number of models).

    That does make for an interesting point though - these lower model count games are easy going on painting while GW wants paint on everything, even though they can have an order of magnitude more models in a list.
    Conversely, though, I think it's fair to say I don't know an enthusiastic WMH player except very new ones who only plays one faction though. Everyone dabbles a bit. I don't doubt Infinity is the same.

    I think the big difference is figure to figure vs unit to unit interactions, in terms of how the games play. You also play on a clock in tournament, and so high model count armies should be approached with care, because if they are models with a lot of rules, you can blow a lot of time moving them, so they are really for experts in a tournament setting and so low count but potent model armies are in vogue. Balanced Army will have around 30 odd figures, maybe smaller for factions with medium bases.

    Warmachine has an unlimited format that they say they are going to give some dev love this year, which is for bigger armies. The problem I think is the unit to unit interaction, which makes the game complex and layered, makes scaling that a pain.

    Company of Iron is warmachine's "skirmish" ruleset.

    I'd say warmachine is representing company sized engagements at the most popular tournament point value, if it was a modern game, but that is a slippery slope.
    meh

  5. #6205
    Dorvil Barranis's Avatar
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    To be fair, I haven't played WH40K since the early '90s. Back then I was quite sure Games Workshop didn't playtest much of anything.
    "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered, those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid. Thus the wise win before they fight, while the ignorant fight to win." - Zhuge Liang


  6. #6206
    Kai's Avatar
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    Infinity is kinda a mix. Increasingly most people cross factions. But you can go DEEP into the main factions: I own ~100-150 models of various types, and can play the main Nomad faction, 2/3 sub-factions (I don't have the newest one, Tunguska, fleshed out enough yet as the playstyle is relatively unappealing to me so I haven't bothered), a Nomad flavoured Mercenary army (StarCo), another Mercenary faction fully (Druze) and one of the sub-factions of the Haqqlislam faction (Qapu Khalqi as it's got a lot of mercenary and Nomad models in it). I can also play another mercenary faction with tournament legal proxying (Ikari). I'm weird given how long I've been playing: most of my mates who've been playing as long or longer have 2-3 factions at least.

    So out of 32 possible factions / sub-factions I can play 6. And I'm a 'single faction zealot'. Admittedly, I'm only that well off because Nomads are kinda weird but 4 or 5 out of 32 isn't uncommon even if you're only sticking to one faction.

    In each of those factions I can field a minimum of 2 very different and highly competitive lists, and in most the number of different competitive list archetypes I can field is over half a dozen. So what Infinity loses out for in scale it makes up for in variety.

    This is the appeal of Infinity: you need less than 20 models in any one list, which means you when you expand it's to get more variety not to increase the scale. So characterising Infinity as 'limited' because it's only skirmish misses the point. But yes, it does mean that Infinity won't appeal to people who want to move large units around the battlefield just as W40K doesn't appeal to people who don't want to collect, paint and then transport dozens or hundreds of models.

    Infinity is also unique in the way it deals with proxying. Proxies are explicitly tournament legal. So for instance, I use a Limited Edition model in 3 different factions to represent 3 different troops. I can do this because that model isn't native to 2 of them so there is no possibility of confusion. Not only isn't this frowned upon, but when I go 'I'm using X as Y' the response is almost universally 'Nice, that's a really good proxy!'.

    Here's the official position on miniatures in Infinity:
      Spoiler:
    Miniatures
    All miniatures used by the players must be from Corvus Belli’s official Infinity range and must be assembled—with at least their main components—and based, using the base supplied with the figure or another of the same size.

    Each figure must represent faithfully the trooper it stands for, including its equipment and weapon options. If a player does not have the official miniature, then at the tournament organizer’s discretion, they can use a different Corvus Belli miniature as a stand-in, but they must clearly inform their opponent of what that figure represents.

    Painting
    Unless otherwise specified by the rules of the event, figures do not need to be painted.

    Proxies
    Under no circumstances can figures from other brands or manufacturers be used as proxies. The use of other Corvus Belli miniatures is allowed; however, players must inform their adversary which trooper is being represented. The figure must use the same size base as the trooper being represented.

    Converted figures
    Use of converted figures is allowed, and in fact encouraged, as long as most or all the figure is composed of parts from Corvus Belli miniatures and the figure accurately represents the unit and weapon option it stands for. The figure must use the same size base as the trooper being represented.
    Last edited by Kai; February 3 2019 at 08:55:07 AM.

  7. #6207

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    There was an Ininity tournament down in Woking on Saturday that 8 of my local gaming club went down too, armed with hearty smiles, tequilla and lunchtime pizza/shots the tournamentn was a roaring success. Sadly "that guy" who is always a prick was there, being a prick and upsetting management to the point they are probably going to ask him not to come back, but beyond that we all had a cracking day out.

    As for our crew,we claimed top 3, 6th and bottom 4 slots. I came second with a day of terrible dice, which says a lot about how playing the missions counts.

    Game 1: Power Pack (vs Aleph O.S.S) I had terrible dice on on turn 1&2, and my opponent passed almost every armour save with 18+. Out of 30 shots I scored maybe 3 wounds, though managed to get Patroculus into Supresion locking down one quadrant and generally made my opponent's life very difficult all game. Eventually weight of quality troops in the right places won out, and i scraped won 8-0 on a very swingy mission by plating objectives and murdering tons in ARO. Corrected to 7-0 when I found I minroly cheated

    Brief beer, pizza, sambuca interlude at the wetherspoon over the road making friends and buying them drinks.

    Game 2: Transmission Matrix vs TAK. I had OK but still pretty patch dice for the most part. Lots of sure fire things came to naught, but i was running Achilles and shooting on 15-18's a lot of the time so stuff died pretty regularly. First thing I did in the game was run Achilles into cover on a roof overseeing most of the board, and murdered straight to dead the Kazak/Vet Kazak mixed link, effectively neutering the major threat, then had to play a camo shell game for 1 1/2 turns, and tidied up at the end. Achilles on a roof in the middle of the board doesn#t always go well, but this time he had nothing to really counter with so Achilles won scoring 14 of my 16 kills. 7-2 major.

    Game3: Capture and Protect vs ISS. My 'get better on turn 2' dice deserted me and I rolled shit all game. we were all pretty tired , burned and a it drunk by then so my tactics brain got all sloppy. Big A ate a crit early on from a Ru-Shi so i turtled when i should have attacked, got rattled and solidly outplayed by JB (a regular, adn very good colleague from our club) all game, but managed to waste enough of his time and preserve enough orders to pull a 3-3 draw out of nowhere, using my final 3 orders of the game to walk an ODD boarding shotgun around the corner and drop his button carrying WuMing with one shot, after spending all game failing to even scratch them.

    A totally marvellous day out though i'm still feeling the effects
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  8. #6208
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itiken View Post
    There was an Ininity tournament down in Woking on Saturday that 8 of my local gaming club went down too, armed with hearty smiles, tequilla and lunchtime pizza/shots the tournamentn was a roaring success. Sadly "that guy" who is always a prick was there, being a prick and upsetting management to the point they are probably going to ask him not to come back, but beyond that we all had a cracking day out.

    As for our crew,we claimed top 3, 6th and bottom 4 slots. I came second with a day of terrible dice, which says a lot about how playing the missions counts.

    Game 1: Power Pack (vs Aleph O.S.S) I had terrible dice on on turn 1&2, and my opponent passed almost every armour save with 18+. Out of 30 shots I scored maybe 3 wounds, though managed to get Patroculus into Supresion locking down one quadrant and generally made my opponent's life very difficult all game. Eventually weight of quality troops in the right places won out, and i scraped won 8-0 on a very swingy mission by plating objectives and murdering tons in ARO. Corrected to 7-0 when I found I minroly cheated

    Brief beer, pizza, sambuca interlude at the wetherspoon over the road making friends and buying them drinks.

    Game 2: Transmission Matrix vs TAK. I had OK but still pretty patch dice for the most part. Lots of sure fire things came to naught, but i was running Achilles and shooting on 15-18's a lot of the time so stuff died pretty regularly. First thing I did in the game was run Achilles into cover on a roof overseeing most of the board, and murdered straight to dead the Kazak/Vet Kazak mixed link, effectively neutering the major threat, then had to play a camo shell game for 1 1/2 turns, and tidied up at the end. Achilles on a roof in the middle of the board doesn#t always go well, but this time he had nothing to really counter with so Achilles won scoring 14 of my 16 kills. 7-2 major.

    Game3: Capture and Protect vs ISS. My 'get better on turn 2' dice deserted me and I rolled shit all game. we were all pretty tired , burned and a it drunk by then so my tactics brain got all sloppy. Big A ate a crit early on from a Ru-Shi so i turtled when i should have attacked, got rattled and solidly outplayed by JB (a regular, adn very good colleague from our club) all game, but managed to waste enough of his time and preserve enough orders to pull a 3-3 draw out of nowhere, using my final 3 orders of the game to walk an ODD boarding shotgun around the corner and drop his button carrying WuMing with one shot, after spending all game failing to even scratch them.

    A totally marvellous day out though i'm still feeling the effects
    Sounds like you had a blast!

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Itiken again.

  9. #6209

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    it was epic. Andy (who won) was srs and got 1st. Jb and I were drunk and crazy so only got 2nd/3rd

    It's exactly why we play games VoV
    Please don't teach me what to do with my pc.

  10. #6210
    Donor Spaztick's Avatar
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    Is this where we talk about vermintide?

  11. #6211
    Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaztick View Post
    Is this where we talk about vermintide?
    Is it played on a tabletop IRL?

  12. #6212
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    ~ minor detail but it looks as though GW might have soft-squatted the 'Dark Angels Company Veterans Squad' box from their website. It's no longer available on either US or AU, though you can still uncover the hyperlink via a quick google search.

    This is the same box as the 'Fallen' box set, the Fallen box art is just a quick & loose 'shop of the Veterans box art to make'em look old-style. Interesting to see them (presumably) streamline DA product like this, wonder if it's as part of a wider move toward Primaris, but obviously this is just wild speculation.

  13. #6213
    Varcaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    ~ minor detail but it looks as though GW might have soft-squatted the 'Dark Angels Company Veterans Squad' box from their website. It's no longer available on either US or AU, though you can still uncover the hyperlink via a quick google search.

    This is the same box as the 'Fallen' box set, the Fallen box art is just a quick & loose 'shop of the Veterans box art to make'em look old-style. Interesting to see them (presumably) streamline DA product like this, wonder if it's as part of a wider move toward Primaris, but obviously this is just wild speculation.
    DA is supposedly getting expanded fallen stuff soontm

  14. #6214
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    ~ minor detail but it looks as though GW might have soft-squatted the 'Dark Angels Company Veterans Squad' box from their website. It's no longer available on either US or AU, though you can still uncover the hyperlink via a quick google search.

    This is the same box as the 'Fallen' box set, the Fallen box art is just a quick & loose 'shop of the Veterans box art to make'em look old-style. Interesting to see them (presumably) streamline DA product like this, wonder if it's as part of a wider move toward Primaris, but obviously this is just wild speculation.
    DA is supposedly getting expanded fallen stuff soontm
    Cool! I didn't know that. I think loyalist/post heresy DA are lame as fuck but find the Fallen much more interesting, even if 99% they're just a foil for loyalist HURR DURR MUH SEKRIT. It would be nice to see them developed further, but GW being GW I'll believe it when I see it...

  15. #6215
    DevilDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    ~ minor detail but it looks as though GW might have soft-squatted the 'Dark Angels Company Veterans Squad' box from their website. It's no longer available on either US or AU, though you can still uncover the hyperlink via a quick google search.

    This is the same box as the 'Fallen' box set, the Fallen box art is just a quick & loose 'shop of the Veterans box art to make'em look old-style. Interesting to see them (presumably) streamline DA product like this, wonder if it's as part of a wider move toward Primaris, but obviously this is just wild speculation.
    DA is supposedly getting expanded fallen stuff soontm
    Cool! I didn't know that. I think loyalist/post heresy DA are lame as fuck but find the Fallen much more interesting, even if 99% they're just a foil for loyalist HURR DURR MUH SEKRIT. It would be nice to see them developed further, but GW being GW I'll believe it when I see it...
    they appear to have phased out the valhallan models as well while I wasn't looking, I was kicking around the idea of putting together an astra militarum auxilia for my wolves using vallhallan gear and a bunch of wolves bitz I have kicking around so of course the dissapear off the site.

  16. #6216
    Movember '11 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 sarabando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDude View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    ~ minor detail but it looks as though GW might have soft-squatted the 'Dark Angels Company Veterans Squad' box from their website. It's no longer available on either US or AU, though you can still uncover the hyperlink via a quick google search.

    This is the same box as the 'Fallen' box set, the Fallen box art is just a quick & loose 'shop of the Veterans box art to make'em look old-style. Interesting to see them (presumably) streamline DA product like this, wonder if it's as part of a wider move toward Primaris, but obviously this is just wild speculation.
    DA is supposedly getting expanded fallen stuff soontm
    Cool! I didn't know that. I think loyalist/post heresy DA are lame as fuck but find the Fallen much more interesting, even if 99% they're just a foil for loyalist HURR DURR MUH SEKRIT. It would be nice to see them developed further, but GW being GW I'll believe it when I see it...
    they appear to have phased out the valhallan models as well while I wasn't looking, I was kicking around the idea of putting together an astra militarum auxilia for my wolves using vallhallan gear and a bunch of wolves bitz I have kicking around so of course the dissapear off the site.
    That happens back in September ISH iirc

  17. #6217
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    annnnnd the Fallen box are now sold out online, here. I guess other people caved/err'd on the side of caution, but now I have all the bits I need for my naughty dangle bois.

    I also grabbed a Chinacast Moritat to turn into a squad sergeant/unit champion and an Iron Father & IW Cataphractii shoulders to make a Warsmith as the start of an IW/30K force.

  18. #6218
    Donor Sparq's Avatar
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    Chinacast turned up yesterday, that was quick! Quality is excellent. Going into the city tomorrow to pick-up Fallen and the shed should arrive Monday which is not 100% ideal since semester begins the same day but HOPEFULLY by the end of the week I'll be basically setup to hobby again.

    This was in the Guardian in January, 'Heroin for middle-class nerds’: how Warhammer conquered gaming'

  19. #6219
    Movember '11 Ginger Excellence Movember 2011Movember 2012 sarabando's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparq View Post
    Chinacast turned up yesterday, that was quick! Quality is excellent. Going into the city tomorrow to pick-up Fallen and the shed should arrive Monday which is not 100% ideal since semester begins the same day but HOPEFULLY by the end of the week I'll be basically setup to hobby again.

    This was in the Guardian in January, 'Heroin for middle-class nerds’: how Warhammer conquered gaming'
    who did you order from?
    also new Abaddon mini juyst droped and hes a chunky boi.

  20. #6220
    Zeppelin's Avatar
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    New csm hnnnnnnnggh

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