hate these ads?, log in or register to hide them
Page 1034 of 1037 FirstFirst ... 3453493498410241031103210331034103510361037 LastLast
Results 20,661 to 20,680 of 20732

Thread: Jihadist Caliphate LLC. Extremist Thunderdome's everywhere.

  1. #20661
    Liare's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    12,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Lana Torrin View Post


    Its mice, but close enough. (wasnt just once either, turns out every time you try and do this the mice end up dead)
    people are rats, people are rats!

    what that experiment proves is that overcrowding sucks and is detrimental to a given population, and that there is a marked difference between just providing enough space to sleep as well as food and water, and the space required for a healthy population to function.

    ie, material conditions matter beyond food and shelter.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  2. #20662
    evil edna's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    5,458
    a proper mouse utopia has never been tried

  3. #20663
    jimmychrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 31, 2011
    Posts
    780
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Collectivization of farms in the soviet union springs to mind. Also the great leap forward.
    much utopia
    such hell on earth

    somehow collectivization only caused problems in ukraine and both the production and soilworkers standards of life rose tenfold compared to imperial times
    "It was only single digit millions dead from enforced starvation so it doesn't count as hell"

    And keckers is playing dumbstruck and flabbergasted, hiding behind a dictionary.

    It only goes to show you can lead an apologist to a bread queue, but you cannot make him wait in it

  4. #20664
    Donor lubica's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    On the shitty side of the Alps
    Posts
    4,908
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Collectivization of farms in the soviet union springs to mind. Also the great leap forward.
    much utopia
    such hell on earth

    somehow collectivization only caused problems in ukraine and both the production and soilworkers standards of life rose tenfold compared to imperial times
    "It was only single digit millions dead from enforced starvation so it doesn't count as hell"

    And keckers is playing dumbstruck and flabbergasted, hiding behind a dictionary.

    It only goes to show you can lead an apologist to a bread queue, but you cannot make him wait in it
    Not trying to be a communist apologist or anything, but pre-communist Russia was roughly equivalent to 15th-century western Europe in terms of agricultural standards. Crop rotation was still taught by monks amongst others. Did the reforms fail severely several times and people starved to death? Yes. Did people starve to death before the reforms too? Yes. What about 20-25 years after the reforms? Not really, no. Bread lines included. So it actually solved something for the better, human death and suffering notwithstanding.


    Quote Originally Posted by Narmio
    Welcome to Dwarf Fortress, where there is a fine line between insanity and gameplay. The line menaces with spikes of obsessive compulsion.

  5. #20665
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    8,104
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    somehow collectivization only caused problems in ukraine and both the production and soilworkers standards of life rose tenfold compared to imperial times
    More Soviet/Russian propaganda.

    Collectivisation caused the most fatalities in the Ukraine because that is where the Kulags mostly lived. But all privately tilled land throughout the USSR was collectivised (91% of all agricultural land), and hunger and deprivation struck all through the USSR countryside, and subsequently the cities. Even Nikita Krushchev admitted, secretly, that the Ukraine (which he governed) was 'covered in the dead and dieing' because of collectivisation. Sounds like hell on earth to me.

    Meanwhile Stalin was exporting grain.

    Food production arguably never fully recovered under the Bolsheviks, as people were still waiting hours in line for even the most basic foodstuffs right through the 70ies. The Kolkhozy (as the Sovkhozy) were no more productive that the farms they replaced, and often far less so (as many Kolkhozniki had no prior knowledge of farming, selected as they were for their political obedience). As for the 'standards of life' among the Kolkhozniki: most weren't even paid, but had to live of the produce of the collective farm. And they were still not allowed to leave it. How was that an improvement compared to imperial times? How is that even a difference? They were just as much slaves as before, only with different masters. And, yes, both those conditions lasted until well after the war.

    The collectivisation of the USSR was a massive crime against humanity. 6 to 13 millions died because of it. It was also a utopian experiment to create an industrialised agricultural system over night. It failed miserably. Food production only recovered to pre-collectivisation levels after Krushchev relaxed the measures (allowing Kolkhozy to have a small plot of privately tilled land for themselves and for sale). USSR's much vaunted food exports came mostly from the belly of the population, and where mostly for propaganda purposes.

    Dizzy with success? I think not ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  6. #20666
    Alistair's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Posts
    13,801
    Holodomor deniers on FHC, who woulda' thunk it.


  7. #20667
    Fara's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    1,734
    The economic system of the udssr was superb.

    said nonone ever

  8. #20668
    Keckers's Avatar
    Join Date
    July 31, 2012
    Posts
    17,581
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Collectivization of farms in the soviet union springs to mind. Also the great leap forward.
    much utopia
    such hell on earth

    somehow collectivization only caused problems in ukraine and both the production and soilworkers standards of life rose tenfold compared to imperial times
    "It was only single digit millions dead from enforced starvation so it doesn't count as hell"

    And keckers is playing dumbstruck and flabbergasted, hiding behind a dictionary.

    It only goes to show you can lead an apologist to a bread queue, but you cannot make him wait in it
    I never said it didn't count as hell. I said it wasn't a policy pursued to achieve utopia, pay attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  9. #20669

    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    Pizza delivery van
    Posts
    6,408
    Jonestown

  10. #20670
    jimmychrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    August 31, 2011
    Posts
    780
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    Collectivization of farms in the soviet union springs to mind. Also the great leap forward.
    much utopia
    such hell on earth

    somehow collectivization only caused problems in ukraine and both the production and soilworkers standards of life rose tenfold compared to imperial times
    "It was only single digit millions dead from enforced starvation so it doesn't count as hell"

    And keckers is playing dumbstruck and flabbergasted, hiding behind a dictionary.

    It only goes to show you can lead an apologist to a bread queue, but you cannot make him wait in it
    I never said it didn't count as hell. I said it wasn't a policy pursued to achieve utopia, pay attention.
    I was quoting razor

  11. #20671
    rufuske's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    2,252
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    somehow collectivization only caused problems in ukraine and both the production and soilworkers standards of life rose tenfold compared to imperial times
    More Soviet/Russian propaganda.

    Collectivisation caused the most fatalities in the Ukraine because that is where the Kulags mostly lived. But all privately tilled land throughout the USSR was collectivised (91% of all agricultural land), and hunger and deprivation struck all through the USSR countryside, and subsequently the cities. Even Nikita Krushchev admitted, secretly, that the Ukraine (which he governed) was 'covered in the dead and dieing' because of collectivisation. Sounds like hell on earth to me.

    Meanwhile Stalin was exporting grain.

    Food production arguably never fully recovered under the Bolsheviks, as people were still waiting hours in line for even the most basic foodstuffs right through the 70ies. The Kolkhozy (as the Sovkhozy) were no more productive that the farms they replaced, and often far less so (as many Kolkhozniki had no prior knowledge of farming, selected as they were for their political obedience). As for the 'standards of life' among the Kolkhozniki: most weren't even paid, but had to live of the produce of the collective farm. And they were still not allowed to leave it. How was that an improvement compared to imperial times? How is that even a difference? They were just as much slaves as before, only with different masters. And, yes, both those conditions lasted until well after the war.

    The collectivisation of the USSR was a massive crime against humanity. 6 to 13 millions died because of it. It was also a utopian experiment to create an industrialised agricultural system over night. It failed miserably. Food production only recovered to pre-collectivisation levels after Krushchev relaxed the measures (allowing Kolkhozy to have a small plot of privately tilled land for themselves and for sale). USSR's much vaunted food exports came mostly from the belly of the population, and where mostly for propaganda purposes.

    Dizzy with success? I think not ...
    To add to that - most lived there because even russians are not stupid enough to put farms on Siberia when Ukraine is mostly composed of the most fertile soils in Europe.

  12. #20672
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    8,104
    Quote Originally Posted by rufuske View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholomeus Crane View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    somehow collectivization only caused problems in ukraine and both the production and soilworkers standards of life rose tenfold compared to imperial times
    More Soviet/Russian propaganda.

    Collectivisation caused the most fatalities in the Ukraine because that is where the Kulags mostly lived. But all privately tilled land throughout the USSR was collectivised (91% of all agricultural land), and hunger and deprivation struck all through the USSR countryside, and subsequently the cities. Even Nikita Krushchev admitted, secretly, that the Ukraine (which he governed) was 'covered in the dead and dieing' because of collectivisation. Sounds like hell on earth to me.

    Meanwhile Stalin was exporting grain.

    Food production arguably never fully recovered under the Bolsheviks, as people were still waiting hours in line for even the most basic foodstuffs right through the 70ies. The Kolkhozy (as the Sovkhozy) were no more productive that the farms they replaced, and often far less so (as many Kolkhozniki had no prior knowledge of farming, selected as they were for their political obedience). As for the 'standards of life' among the Kolkhozniki: most weren't even paid, but had to live of the produce of the collective farm. And they were still not allowed to leave it. How was that an improvement compared to imperial times? How is that even a difference? They were just as much slaves as before, only with different masters. And, yes, both those conditions lasted until well after the war.

    The collectivisation of the USSR was a massive crime against humanity. 6 to 13 millions died because of it. It was also a utopian experiment to create an industrialised agricultural system over night. It failed miserably. Food production only recovered to pre-collectivisation levels after Krushchev relaxed the measures (allowing Kolkhozy to have a small plot of privately tilled land for themselves and for sale). USSR's much vaunted food exports came mostly from the belly of the population, and where mostly for propaganda purposes.

    Dizzy with success? I think not ...
    To add to that - most lived there because even Russians are not stupid enough to put farms on Siberia when Ukraine is mostly composed of the most fertile soils in Europe.
    And to add to that - under Stolypin, prior to the revolution, the Imperial government offered up large plots of lands in Southern Siberia for any farmer willing to internally migrate. Many took up the offer, and turned Siberia (of all places) into the 'second breadbasket' of the Empire. Before WW1 it was set to surpass food production in the Ukraine in the 1930ies, 40ies.

    Collectivisation hit that region like a sledge hammer to the face, and by the 1950ies (remember, none of this area was ever occupied by the Nazis or anyone else) next to nothing was left of the South Siberian agricultural dream. Instead food production collapsed, heads of cattle, sheep, etc. declined +75%, and hunger and deprivation spread throughout South Siberia (more than 1.5 million so-called Kulaks fled to China between the 1920ies and the 1940ies. China! Which was starving itself at that time!).

    Likewise in Kazakhstan. Collectivisation sought to settle essentially nomadic cattle and sheep herders into collective farms. As a result between 1928 and 1935 it lost about 7 million out of 9 million of cattle alone, and at least a million people died (maybe more, the Bolsheviks stopped counting).

    Perhaps even the hardest hit by collectivisation wasn't the Ukrainians, but the people living in the North Caucasus, which had a long tradition of independent farmers even in Imperial times. And estimated 4 million people died of hunger alone, and food production declined by 90%. The region may not have been as famous as the black soil region in the Ukraine and the Don basin, but it arguably hasn't recovered from collectivisation until this very day.

    The Holodomor in the Ukraine is more well known because the Ukraine actually confronted its history after independence. But the man-made famine of the USSR of 1932-1933 was a Holodomor throughout the USSR. It is just inconvenient for the powers currently in the Kremlin to acknowledge it as such. They would rather have that people forget about what happens to the ordinary peasants when Russia Putin another authoritarian in the Kremlin ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  13. #20673
    Liare's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    12,526
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Jonestown
    "this frindge looney cult that committed mass suicide is all i could find" is not really strengthening the underlying argument is it ?
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  14. #20674
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    8,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by depili View Post
    Jonestown
    "this frindge looney cult that committed mass suicide is all i could find" is not really strengthening the underlying argument is it ?
    Doesn't matter for you anyway, you generally don't have any at all ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  15. #20675
    Smarnca's Avatar
    Join Date
    January 30, 2013
    Location
    SVN
    Posts
    9,359
    Why did the prophet Muhammad ban alcohol?

    .
    .
    .

    His wife was too young to drink at the pub.

    Careful not head hit on rock!
    laughs in Slovenian

  16. #20676
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    The original viennese waffle
    Posts
    22,299
    *rimshot*

  17. #20677

    Join Date
    May 31, 2011
    Posts
    4,284
    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    The economic system of the udssr was superb.

    said nonone ever
    Dito for "ruined the planet for the whole of mankind".

  18. #20678
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    8,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fara View Post
    The economic system of the udssr was superb.

    said nonone ever
    Dito for "ruined the planet for the whole of mankind".
    idgi
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

  19. #20679
    Movember 2011 RazoR's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 10, 2011
    Location
    The Motherland
    Posts
    30,322
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    enforced starvation
    nice meme

    - hey ukrainian kulak we see you got plenty of cattle/wheat how about you surrender it to the state
    - haha no way im going to kill it all off and starve next year tyvm

  20. #20680
    Bartholomeus Crane's Avatar
    Join Date
    April 9, 2011
    Posts
    8,104
    Quote Originally Posted by RazoR View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmychrist View Post
    enforced starvation
    nice meme

    - hey ukrainian kulak we see you got plenty of cattle/wheat how about you surrender it to the state
    - haha no way im going to kill it all off and starve next year tyvm
    Happened mostly, and notably, outside of the Ukraine (the Ukrainian peasants tried to hide their grain (needed for seeding?). But why let facts get in the way of shitposting Kremlin propaganda. Right guise?

    Good to see you're finally admitting that the Russians did create hell on earth in pursuit of some utopian idea though ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Miep View Post
    ...i have no idea whats realy going on...

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •