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Thread: Jihadist Caliphate LLC. Extremist Thunderdome's everywhere.

  1. #15441
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
    Didn't take long at all.
    I didn't start it...

    >We are all one human race and there is no difference in cognitive ability between populations.
    >We must not carry out research into genetics and intelligence because the racists and the nazis will use the information to justify their beliefs!

    That's some nice doublethink going on there.
    I'm actually ok with doing this research, my argument is the reason darkies are less successful normally has nothing to do with race.

    I also bet you are going to find some mind blowing information for poor white communities by doing this research as well.
    I doubt that even the most ardent neo-nazi will try to convince you that every white person is superior in every way to every asiatic, negro or slav. In any monoethnic, monocultural society/population (so no worries about privilege) would you really be surprised if there was a greater concentration of 'stupid genes' amongst the poor and 'smart genes' amongst the rich?

    Also my bold, when does it have something to do with race ErichKKKnaar?


  2. #15442
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    I doubt that even the most ardent neo-nazi will try to convince you that every white person is superior in every way to every asiatic, negro or slav.
    Not sure if srs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Also my bold, when does it have something to do with race ErichKKKnaar?
    It mostly has to do with culture. A lot of what it is today, in places like lolafrica have a lot to do with colonial exit strategies.
    Last edited by erichkknaar; March 18 2017 at 11:48:35 PM.
    meh

  3. #15443
    Rakshasa The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    It mostly has to do with culture. A lot of what it is today, in places like lolafrica have a lot to do with colonial exit strategies.
    Everything is easily explained when you don't care about reality.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  4. #15444
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    It mostly has to do with culture. A lot of what it is today, in places like lolafrica have a lot to do with colonial exit strategies.
    Everything is easily explained when you don't care about reality.
    meh

  5. #15445
    Movember 2012 Elriche Oshego's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    It mostly has to do with culture. A lot of what it is today, in places like lolafrica have a lot to do with colonial exit strategies.
    Everything is easily explained when you don't care about reality.
    The basis of all Rak posts.

  6. #15446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    It mostly has to do with culture. A lot of what it is today, in places like lolafrica have a lot to do with colonial exit strategies.
    Everything is easily explained when you don't care about reality.
    The basis of all Rak posts.
    Haha brilliant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  7. #15447
    Rakshasa The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    It mostly has to do with culture. A lot of what it is today, in places like lolafrica have a lot to do with colonial exit strategies.
    Everything is easily explained when you don't care about reality.
    The basis of all Rak posts.
    Haha brilliant.
    Pretty surr none of you can easily explain my posts.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  8. #15448

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frug View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Elriche Oshego View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    It mostly has to do with culture. A lot of what it is today, in places like lolafrica have a lot to do with colonial exit strategies.
    Everything is easily explained when you don't care about reality.
    The basis of all Rak posts.
    Haha brilliant.
    Pretty surr none of you can easily explain my posts.
    Pretty sure the explanation is shockingly simple.

  9. #15449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    I doubt that even the most ardent neo-nazi will try to convince you that every white person is superior in every way to every asiatic, negro or slav.
    Ahahahahahaha
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  10. #15450
    Rakshasa The Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isyel View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Pretty surr none of you can easily explain my posts.
    Pretty sure the explanation is shockingly simple.
    Yes, and as we all know simple is a very difficult thing to achieve.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  11. #15451
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    I doubt that even the most ardent neo-nazi will try to convince you that every white person is superior in every way to every asiatic, negro or slav.
    Ahahahahahaha
    That reminds me of some research i had to do upon neo-nazis when i was in school, during that i stumbled upon a discussion. An honest thoughtfull discussion with arguments from both sides in a civilized manner. The dicussion was if it was the right thing to do to save a black child from drowning if they could save it, there were a lot of arguments of it being better for it to die, what animals should be saved if it was either or, or how expansive an item would have to be to rather save that instead, or if the water was cold(!) or if it was dangerous for themselves to save the child and so on. And it was all talked about in a clam rational manner, not like some trolls on /pol being edgy, but rather people actually talking about what they really felt like. Their real thoughts and opinions.


    I never was that disgusted with humanity ever again.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  12. #15452
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    I doubt that even the most ardent neo-nazi will try to convince you that every white person is superior in every way to every asiatic, negro or slav. In any monoethnic, monocultural society/population (so no worries about privilege) would you really be surprised if there was a greater concentration of 'stupid genes' amongst the poor and 'smart genes' amongst the rich?

    Also my bold, when does it have something to do with race ErichKKKnaar?
    i would indeed be surprised to see "smart genes" to be more prevalent among the rich, our social structures generally favour sociopathic traits over intelligent traits, so i'd expect to see more sociopaths, of course we're dealing with matters of the brain and intelligence here where the science is quite... fuzzy is a good term to use, we dont even have a coherent definition of intelligence at this point, much less a way to actually reliably measure it, IQ tests for example tend to measure pattern recognition and completely ignore other equally important aspects of intelligence, i score in the high 120's and still tend to struggle in social contexts.

    simply put, neatly separating things into genetic, cultural and social factors is flat-out impossible at this point in time, it belies a simplistic and often racially motivated view of what's actually going in the science community where there are indeed pointers that genetic background matters, but not actually what bits of genetic background matters and it gets even more muddled when you add epigenetics in where you literately have social factors dictating genetic expression, if there is such a thing as a "smart gene" then there is absolutely no basis to think it has jack shit to do with the genes controlling melamine expression or facial features nor that it's something not affected by, or even governed by epigenetic factors.

    a study that sometimes come up compares brain-volume of western Europeans to Africans and conclude Europeans on average have larger brains and scored better on IQ tests to the extend that it's statistically significant, something that is indeed true and quite well documented in the study in question, because the Africans tested where dirt-poor and had suffered from repeated bouts of malnutrition throughout their lives, of course the last bit is often left-out entirely when that thing is presented...
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  13. #15453
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Lets ignore PC and stuff, would it make sense evolutionary for specific groups of people (i.e races) to be less intelligent then others? Is being smart at some point unimportant to being a good hunter and gatherer and thus indigenous tribes are less smart then people living in a big society where a higher IQ leads to better survivial? And was a higher IQ actually a positive thing within our past societies, or did that just get you killed?


    And how long does it take for evolution to actually take effect? Would, in theory any race be dumber then any other?
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  14. #15454
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Lets ignore PC and stuff, would it make sense evolutionary for specific groups of people (i.e races) to be less intelligent then others? Is being smart at some point unimportant to being a good hunter and gatherer and thus indigenous tribes are less smart then people living in a big society where a higher IQ leads to better survivial? And was a higher IQ actually a positive thing within our past societies, or did that just get you killed?


    And how long does it take for evolution to actually take effect? Would, in theory any race be dumber then any other?
    right, let's start out with tossing the entire concept of "race" when it comes to modern humans out the airlock, it might in become relevant at some point in the far future when we really get the genetic engineering train going but it's not relevant now, and it most likely wont ever be. you can find larger in-group variations than between groups divided by skin color, if we take two ordinary, boring "white" britons and run their genetic profiles up against somebody from zimbabwe you could easily find that the difference between your two britons is larger than the difference between either briton and the one from zimbabwe (it's especially prevalent in the former colonial nations and nations that have been subject to mass migrations, it doesn't take much imagination to see why that might be)

    so it's fucking meaningless to even discuss anything related to genetics on the "traditional" race context, you follow ?

    secondly, intelligence as i wrote above is not a uniform attribute, Galileo was no doubt a clever bloke, but not clever enough to see that his ideas would rather severely offend the dominant authority in his society so socially we can, and do, select against certain types of "intelligence".

    evolution happens on a generational scale, we're faaar too close to actually going from predators to global apex predators to even have separated into distinct species.


    you're massively underestimating just how successful as a species humanity is, we're a mere 12000 years away from agricultural revolution at about 500 generations, while only 20 generations away from starting to look at the world in a systematic framework (ie, science), as far as the archeological evidence go, nothing can even come close to our success, there literately haven't been enough time to genetically separate in a meaningful manner.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  15. #15455
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Galileo was no doubt a clever bloke, but not clever enough to see that his ideas would rather severely offend the dominant authority in his society so socially we can, and do, select against certain types of "intelligence".
    What a curiously specific and at the same time not even correct(ly interpreted) example you chose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotXenosis View Post

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  16. #15456
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Galileo was no doubt a clever bloke, but not clever enough to see that his ideas would rather severely offend the dominant authority in his society so socially we can, and do, select against certain types of "intelligence".
    What a curiously specific and at the same time not even correct(ly interpreted) example you chose.
    he ended up on trial for heresy twice mate and ended up under house-arrest for life, i'd rather call that a reasonable interpretation, it didn't actually curtail him in the evolutionary sense but i wanted to use it to illustrate how we as a species favour and disfavour traits in a social context and it's quite a recognizable name.

    back then you'd rather deal with the inquisition than your liege lord in matters like this tho, quite ironic considering our modern interpretation of the organisation.
    Last edited by Liare; March 19 2017 at 10:26:32 AM.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

  17. #15457
    FatFreddy's Avatar
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    Liare, time travel expert and thus master historian and fruthermore intricate connaisseur and psychological expert regarding Galileo Galileis' motives, inner thought process and decision making

    fucking lulz
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotXenosis View Post

    M8, i have discussions that spam multiple accounts, you aren't even on my level

  18. #15458
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    right, let's start out with tossing the entire concept of "race" when it comes to modern humans out the airlock, it might in become relevant at some point in the far future when we really get the genetic engineering train going but it's not relevant now, and it most likely wont ever be. you can find larger in-group variations than between groups divided by skin color, if we take two ordinary, boring "white" britons and run their genetic profiles up against somebody from zimbabwe you could easily find that the difference between your two britons is larger than the difference between either briton and the one from zimbabwe (it's especially prevalent in the former colonial nations and nations that have been subject to mass migrations, it doesn't take much imagination to see why that might be)
    Ah yes, the 'greater genetic variation within populations than between them meme'... The difference between two random individual britons and a briton and a zimbabwean may well be different but looking at populations as a who one can see trends and it's not hard to tell someone's ancestry...



    so it's fucking meaningless to even discuss anything related to genetics on the "traditional" race context, you follow ?
    Not really. You can't apply anything on an individual basis but looking at population groups as a whole, where some groups are at greater risk of certain diseases/disorders because of genetic factors you can better target public health resources.

    secondly, intelligence as i wrote above is not a uniform attribute, Galileo was no doubt a clever bloke, but not clever enough to see that his ideas would rather severely offend the dominant authority in his society so socially we can, and do, select against certain types of "intelligence".
    I agree, there is more to intelligence than IQ, although broadly high IQ correlates well with positive life outcomes. There's no doubt more than one 'smart gene', along with genes which effect one's character and temprement.

    evolution happens on a generational scale, we're faaar too close to actually going from predators to global apex predators to even have separated into distinct species.


    you're massively underestimating just how successful as a species humanity is, we're a mere 12000 years away from agricultural revolution at about 500 generations, while only 20 generations away from starting to look at the world in a systematic framework (ie, science), as far as the archeological evidence go, nothing can even come close to our success, there literately haven't been enough time to genetically separate in a meaningful manner.
    Keep in mind we're about 50,000 years from when humans first left Africa, so 4x as many generations. Population groups bred with other subspecies of archaic humans as they spread throughout the world. There are population groups that have suffered various disasters over the millenia and have been reduced to hundreds, maybe even a few dozen 'breeding pairs' creating something of a bottleneck. Those surviving pairs may well have possessed more beneficial traits than their contemparies who didn't survive which will have been passed down in greater concentrations to their offspring and so on. There literally has been enough time to genetically separate.

    We know that the so called 'warrior gene' which is associated with anti-social behaviour didn't do such a good job of making it out of Africa.

    It's a shame we can't have a reasonable discussion on this topic without coming back to 'race'.


  19. #15459
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liare View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Lets ignore PC and stuff, would it make sense evolutionary for specific groups of people (i.e races) to be less intelligent then others? Is being smart at some point unimportant to being a good hunter and gatherer and thus indigenous tribes are less smart then people living in a big society where a higher IQ leads to better survivial? And was a higher IQ actually a positive thing within our past societies, or did that just get you killed?


    And how long does it take for evolution to actually take effect? Would, in theory any race be dumber then any other?
    right, let's start out with tossing the entire concept of "race" when it comes to modern humans out the airlock, it might in become relevant at some point in the far future when we really get the genetic engineering train going but it's not relevant now, and it most likely wont ever be. you can find larger in-group variations than between groups divided by skin color, if we take two ordinary, boring "white" britons and run their genetic profiles up against somebody from zimbabwe you could easily find that the difference between your two britons is larger than the difference between either briton and the one from zimbabwe (it's especially prevalent in the former colonial nations and nations that have been subject to mass migrations, it doesn't take much imagination to see why that might be)

    so it's fucking meaningless to even discuss anything related to genetics on the "traditional" race context, you follow ?

    secondly, intelligence as i wrote above is not a uniform attribute, Galileo was no doubt a clever bloke, but not clever enough to see that his ideas would rather severely offend the dominant authority in his society so socially we can, and do, select against certain types of "intelligence".

    evolution happens on a generational scale, we're faaar too close to actually going from predators to global apex predators to even have separated into distinct species.


    you're massively underestimating just how successful as a species humanity is, we're a mere 12000 years away from agricultural revolution at about 500 generations, while only 20 generations away from starting to look at the world in a systematic framework (ie, science), as far as the archeological evidence go, nothing can even come close to our success, there literately haven't been enough time to genetically separate in a meaningful manner.
    What Lark says, also for intelligence to be different you dont need much time. Again, look at dogs. Within 20 generations you can have massive changes, the afghan hound coming to mind again. If the smart people within a society die, over and over, it wouldnt take that long for the general population to become more stupid genetically. Even if the difference in the actual dna is super tiny, it is still there.


    Also, keep in mind that if i (or anyone i think) uses the word race they mean a group of people that mostly have children amongst themselves over a long period of time. The aborigines or tribes in the amazon for example.
    Last edited by W0lf Crendraven; March 19 2017 at 11:00:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  20. #15460
    Liare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FatFreddy View Post
    Liare, time travel expert and thus master historian and fruthermore intricate connaisseur and psychological expert regarding Galileo Galileis' motives, inner thought process and decision making

    fucking lulz
    ..time travel ?

    the smart thing to do would have been to drop the matter after the first inquisitional conviction, instead of keeping pounding the oar in (make the pope out to be a raging moron? brave man tbh) and we can all be rather grateful that he didn't do the smart thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Ah yes, the 'greater genetic variation within populations than between them meme'... The difference between two random individual britons and a briton and a zimbabwean may well be different but looking at populations as a who one can see trends and it's not hard to tell someone's ancestry...

    you're not presenting anything that is in any way profound or could not be deduced by reading a history book that covers from around the fall of the Roman empire in the west and until today, you're also looking at a data-sample based on testing for 300.000 base-pairs, out of 3 billion and pocket-change and specifically targeting the areas that have the greatest variability.

    you see significantly greater genetic diversity in dogs than in humans, but it's still a single species.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Not really. You can't apply anything on an individual basis but looking at population groups as a whole, where some groups are at greater risk of certain diseases/disorders because of genetic factors you can better target public health resources.
    this, is not news and already being done extensively, additional medical checkups for people at risk of getting inheritable genetic disorders and so forth.

    I agree, there is more to intelligence than IQ, although broadly high IQ correlates well with positive life outcomes. There's no doubt more than one 'smart gene', along with genes which effect one's character and temprement.
    correlation is not causation, the role of epigenetics is still being explored, controlling for social factors is ethically impossible and the list just goes on and on and on, and that is making the assumption that there even is a genetic factor involved in what we call intelligence.

    even if more successful people score higher on IQ tests on average, is that a result of them being better equipped genetically, or better educated ? how do you control for either factor in the first place ?

    add the way the argument is often, if not always put forward with a implicit or explicit racism bend to it, and you get why it's rejected out of hand.

    Keep in mind we're about 50,000 years from when humans first left Africa, so 4x as many generations. Population groups bred with other subspecies of archaic humans as they spread throughout the world. There are population groups that have suffered various disasters over the millenia and have been reduced to hundreds, maybe even a few dozen 'breeding pairs' creating something of a bottleneck. Those surviving pairs may well have possessed more beneficial traits than their contemparies who didn't survive which will have been passed down in greater concentrations to their offspring and so on. There literally has been enough time to genetically separate.

    We know that the so called 'warrior gene' which is associated with anti-social behaviour didn't do such a good job of making it out of Africa.

    It's a shame we can't have a reasonable discussion on this topic without coming back to 'race'.
    again, see dogs and remember we've been breeding them for specific traits for generations, it's fundamentally the same species.

    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    What Lark says, also for intelligence to be different you dont need much time. Again, look at dogs. Within 20 generations you can have massive changes, the afghan hound coming to mind again. If the smart people within a society die, over and over, it wouldnt take that long for the general population to become more stupid genetically. Even if the difference in the actual dna is super tiny, it is still there.


    Also, keep in mind that if i (or anyone i think) uses the word race they mean a group of people that mostly have children amongst themselves over a long period of time. The aborigines or tribes in the amazon for example.
    the Afghan hound is a example of selective breeding, you're confusing human behavior where we get to pick whomever we want/are able to with human-intervention, but even if we selectively bred humans for specific traits, and we don't and never have, your example with the purebreed Afghan hound took 20 generations to evolve (well hello 1500's!) and even then the evolutionary history of dogs is a enormous cluster-fuck where even finding one that somewhat resembles whatever our ancestors domesticated is impossible and where the genetic divergence has drifted both apart and closer together numerous times following human migration patterns.
    Viking, n.:
    1. Daring Scandinavian seafarers, explorers, adventurers, entrepreneurs world-famous for their aggressive, nautical import business, highly leveraged takeovers and blue eyes.
    2. Bloodthirsty sea pirates who ravaged northern Europe beginning in the 9th century.

    Hagar's note: The first definition is much preferred; the second is used only by malcontents, the envious, and disgruntled owners of waterfront property.

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