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Thread: Jihadist Caliphate LLC. Extremist Thunderdome's everywhere.

  1. #15321
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Its not though, i dont know the term but its basicely influenced random distribution. The kids can be just as smart as anyone, but its less likely that they are if the parents are stupid, inteligence is inheritable.





    Anyways, i just want to make it clear that i think the german system is FAIR, but i dont think its GOOD (or perfect may be be the better word). If it were up to me i would massively increase spending on schools, make sure teachers get payed more and that more people get into teaching so that classes get smaller and that kids get more attention. I would make sure that the system would do the early intervention for poor kids, and even do courses for the parents and so on. I think our current system where we basicely ignore the people in the Hauptschule as the future jobless social parasites is aweful. There must be a solution to that. The proletariat (in germany) must be made extinct, by making all of them part of the bourgeoisie. I dont think that workers kids being dragged down by their upbringing and surrounding is a good thing.

    Our equality of chance isnt nearly good enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  2. #15322
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metacannibal View Post

    Intelligence and ability is absolutely not "bred" but a random distribution pretty much of gaussian normal distribution. It is entirely chance based and not related to your parentage, certain heritary disease and drug abuse during pregnancy of course excluded.
    [Citation Needed]

    I was under the impression that intelligence (or IQ at least) has a roughly 50% genetic component to it. If you have really dumb/really smart parents you may well regress towards the mean but you'll probably still be dumber/smarter than a child of parents of average intelligence.



    Which is why it is important to have an equal chance education.

    And thats exactly where we get to the whole "grown ups debating with kids" problem. If you want an OUTCOME EQUALITY system, you are back to square 1 and communism, and even there, there was proleratiat and there were the party elites.
    So its proven in practice to be a non working theorycrafting bullshit.
    Which leads us to the social mobility debate.
    Its obvious that Joe and some others want "OUTCOME EQUALITY". Figure this: life isnt fair. Stop whining and accept that. If you were born unlucky and your parents are alcoholics that beat you and abuse you, you are done, it isnt fair but thats what it is.

    Grow up and accept the fact, life isnt fair, life isnt all that great for many people, and in the end, we all die. Get over it.
    The only way to ensure equality of outcome would be to have the state raise all children from birth under controlled conditions.
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  3. #15323
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    No it makes the entire economic structure retarded and exploitative.
    Equality of Outcome, not Equality of Opportunity.

    From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

    No it makes the entire economic structure retarded and exploitative.
    Being born into a poor family is the single biggest disadvantage you can face in life.
    No it isnt. Not even by a long shot.
    Since we have so many autistic ancaps posting I'll share this autistic comic that illustrates socioeconomic privilege.





  4. #15324
    evil edna's Avatar
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    did that cartoon just start off by assuming those kids genders?

  5. #15325
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evil edna View Post
    did that cartoon just start off by assuming those kids genders?
    nice catch if the boy had allowed to choose to be female he could have had even more privilege

  6. #15326
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rakshasa The Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Keckers View Post
    No it makes the entire economic structure retarded and exploitative.
    Equality of Outcome, not Equality of Opportunity.

    From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.

    No it makes the entire economic structure retarded and exploitative.
    Being born into a poor family is the single biggest disadvantage you can face in life.
    No it isnt. Not even by a long shot.
    Since we have so many autistic ancaps posting I'll share this autistic comic that illustrates socioeconomic privilege.




    I never once claimed what the comic states itself isnt true, i pretty much said the same thing it does. Except that the system part isnt unfair in germany as it is in that comic, the class sizes are the same, no one really has to take care of relatives due to free healthcare, the uni is free and you get a (very special) state loan so you dont really get into debt. Is it unfair in general, yes. But the system itself isnt. I was just saying that the "hardcoded" genetics stuff also plays a pretty big part.



    Edit: By system i means education system.
    Last edited by W0lf Crendraven; March 18 2017 at 04:22:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  7. #15327
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    I will concede that the point is more applicable in highly unequal societies like the US.

    However in the context of Germany imagine the girl is being raised by dumbshit allahuackbar Turkish parents and the outcome is basically the same.

  8. #15328
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    I will concede that the point is more applicable in highly unequal societies like the US.

    However in the context of Germany imagine the girl is being raised by dumbshit allahuackbar Turkish parents and the outcome is basically the same.
    Thats my point basicely. Its not due to the society but due to the parents and their situation. And thus the system is fair, but not perfect and it should really reach out to the paulas and help tthem.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  9. #15329
    Approaching Walrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    I will concede that the point is more applicable in highly unequal societies like the US.

    However in the context of Germany imagine the girl is being raised by dumbshit allahuackbar Turkish parents and the outcome is basically the same.
    Thats my point basicely. Its not due to the society but due to the parents and their situation. And thus the system is fair, but not perfect and it should really reach out to the paulas and help tthem.
    Which brings it back full circle to what Comrade Keckers said: if the parents are known to be dumbshitallahuackbarturks and the outcome of their parenting without outside intervention is understood, then the impetus lies on the state to intervene and salvage the situation for the child so their life isn't ruined just because they were born to Turkish parents.

  10. #15330
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    I will concede that the point is more applicable in highly unequal societies like the US.

    However in the context of Germany imagine the girl is being raised by dumbshit allahuackbar Turkish parents and the outcome is basically the same.
    Thats my point basicely. Its not due to the society but due to the parents and their situation. And thus the system is fair, but not perfect and it should really reach out to the paulas and help tthem.
    Which brings it back full circle to what Comrade Keckers said: if the parents are known to be dumbshitallahuackbarturks and the outcome of their parenting without outside intervention is understood, then the impetus lies on the state to intervene and salvage the situation for the child so their life isn't ruined just because they were born to Turkish parents.
    I agree with the statement of his, but not with his conclusion. Although that is pretty unimportant.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  11. #15331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Approaching Walrus View Post
    I will concede that the point is more applicable in highly unequal societies like the US.

    However in the context of Germany imagine the girl is being raised by dumbshit allahuackbar Turkish parents and the outcome is basically the same.
    Thats my point basicely. Its not due to the society but due to the parents and their situation. And thus the system is fair, but not perfect and it should really reach out to the paulas and help tthem.
    Which brings it back full circle to what Comrade Keckers said: if the parents are known to be dumbshitallahuackbarturks and the outcome of their parenting without outside intervention is understood, then the impetus lies on the state to intervene and salvage the situation for the child so their life isn't ruined just because they were born to Turkish parents.
    So we've all reached the same conclusion then; remove islam from western civilization.

    BTW one of the biggest factors in terms of a childs future prospects isn't the socioeconomic status of the parents, rather it is if the parents are both there or not.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

  12. #15332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by metacannibal View Post

    Intelligence and ability is absolutely not "bred" but a random distribution pretty much of gaussian normal distribution. It is entirely chance based and not related to your parentage, certain heritary disease and drug abuse during pregnancy of course excluded.
    [Citation Needed]

    I was under the impression that intelligence (or IQ at least) has a roughly 50% genetic component to it.
    It's more than 50%. They had a long-term study, comparing regular children with the adopted ones, for parents with above-average IQ. Even given the best nurturing conditions from rich adoptive parents, adopted children still came way behind.

    The whole "every human is equally capable mentally" is utter bullshit, and contradicts every basic biological and anthropological fact.

  13. #15333
    Paradox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by metacannibal View Post

    Intelligence and ability is absolutely not "bred" but a random distribution pretty much of gaussian normal distribution. It is entirely chance based and not related to your parentage, certain heritary disease and drug abuse during pregnancy of course excluded.
    [Citation Needed]

    I was under the impression that intelligence (or IQ at least) has a roughly 50% genetic component to it.
    It's more than 50%. They had a long-term study, comparing regular children with the adopted ones, for parents with above-average IQ. Even given the best nurturing conditions from rich adoptive parents, adopted children still came way behind.

    The whole "every human is equally capable mentally" is utter bullshit, and contradicts every basic biological and anthropological fact.
    Show me the study please


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  14. #15334
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    I don't see why it is such an anathema to some people that cognative ability can be linked to and partially influenced by genetics yet readily accept that various physical attributes/capabilities, predisposition to certain diseases and disorders are related to one's genes.
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  15. #15335
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    I never once claimed what the comic states itself isnt true, i pretty much said the same thing it does. Except that the system part isnt unfair in germany as it is in that comic, the class sizes are the same, no one really has to take care of relatives due to free healthcare, the uni is free and you get a (very special) state loan so you dont really get into debt. Is it unfair in general, yes. But the system itself isnt.
    Nicht verboten.

    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    I was just saying that the "hardcoded" genetics stuff also plays a pretty big part.
    Verboten.
    meh

  16. #15336
    evil edna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    I don't see why it is such an anathema to some people that cognative ability can be linked to and partially influenced by genetics yet readily accept that various physical attributes/capabilities, predisposition to certain diseases and disorders are related to one's genes.
    Its become a taboo to talk about it, its actually kinda strange. The idea that intelligence is somehow the only attribute that isnt influenced by genetics does not make sense.

  17. #15337
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Rumata View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Larkonis Trassler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by metacannibal View Post

    Intelligence and ability is absolutely not "bred" but a random distribution pretty much of gaussian normal distribution. It is entirely chance based and not related to your parentage, certain heritary disease and drug abuse during pregnancy of course excluded.
    [Citation Needed]

    I was under the impression that intelligence (or IQ at least) has a roughly 50% genetic component to it.
    It's more than 50%. They had a long-term study, comparing regular children with the adopted ones, for parents with above-average IQ. Even given the best nurturing conditions from rich adoptive parents, adopted children still came way behind.

    The whole "every human is equally capable mentally" is utter bullshit, and contradicts every basic biological and anthropological fact.
    Show me the study please
    Might have been Bruce sacerdote

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  18. #15338
    Donor erichkknaar's Avatar
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    The implication is that there is no potential to change it, and that just isn't true. Given the "right upbringing", the orphan from war torn Somalia can what?

    Is he always going to be stuck not getting ahead while given the same opportunities?

    Evidence kind of says no. Some of those actually become very successful when applying themselves to western education or entrepreneurship. In similar percentages to folks born into the same society.

    http://cis.org/sites/cis.org/files/a...tates-2012.pdf

    That is from, as near as I can tell, a conservative voice in this debate in the US, but if you look at the numbers that own their own homes, start their own businesses and get college education, its clear that they have similar success rates to anyone else, taken in the macro, with some understandable skew because of the large amount of mesoamerican near-slave labor we employ.

    Of course rich white kids do better, but there are a shit load of poor whites too. It actually balances out at scale.
    meh

  19. #15339
    Larkonis Trassler's Avatar
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    So if you're going to advocate for greater intervention by the state in 'poor' households (not just abusive ones) to provide a greater equality of outcome (and given the amount of development and variance in ability before kids even land at school that intervention will pretty much need to be from birth) what about those more well to do households where they have the ability to provide greater enrichment to their children (and this doesn't neccessarily require any expenditure)? Are they going to be policed as well?
    'Citizen, you are under arrest for exceding your arts and crafts time allocation for the week. Put down the macaroni and glue and come with me.'
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  20. #15340
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    Quote Originally Posted by erichkknaar View Post
    The implication is that there is no potential to change it, and that just isn't true. Given the "right upbringing", the orphan from war torn Somalia can what?
    That implication only exists in your head, and is the main reason why discussing nature vs. nurture is almost impossible with people like you.
    Are you an engineer? -- Quack

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