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Thread: Jihadist Caliphate LLC. Extremist Thunderdome's everywhere.

  1. #15261

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varcaus View Post
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    I said it many times and I'll say it again: fuck the Turks.
    Make that "Fuck the AKP followers" and I fully agree. Remember: there's a big part of Turks who are against Erodgan, mainly in the big cities. See the Gezi Park protests for example.

    That the AKP is campaigning in foreign countries is due to the fact that in Turkey there's no clear majority for Erdogan's referendum, so he turns towards the expats for gathering the necessary votes. Unfortunately, especially in Germany, he's got strong support amongst Turks.
    For the life of me, i don't know why. Someone please tell me.
    Because Turks in Germany are generally more conservative and thus favor the conservative AKP.
    Why that is the case was my question.
    Because who do you think left Turkey in the 60s and 70s? The well educated liberal successful West Turkish population or the conservative less well educated unsuccessful Anatolian rural population?
    If you think the former I have bad news for you.

    Tapapapatalk
    But shouldn't they and their offspring be more liberal and educated now, almost 60 years later?
    Partially they are. But considering that our education system is so awesome that if you have an immigrant (or working class) background it's pretty much impossible to get higher education.

    Not to mention that "integration" was a totally unknown concept in West Germany until the late 90s. Why do you think does the vast majority of the first and some of the second generation not speak any or very little German?

    They were left alone to their own devices by the German society. So they kept to themselves and had little contact to Germans.
    To add to that: they were called "Gastarbeiter" for a reason. Germany implied/hoped that once the Italians and later the Turks helped us to get our economy up and running again, they would wave a "good bye" and head back to (the relative poverty of) their countries again. Surprise, surprise, that never happened.
    So why do you think they will do it now?
    Who thinks that?
    Refugee =/= migrant
    Anal rape vs. regular rape.

  2. #15262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    Partially they are. But considering that our education system is so awesome that if you have an immigrant (or working class) background it's pretty much impossible to get higher education.
    I thought your universities were free... Which from here sounds crazy (and amazing).

    Quote Originally Posted by Loire
    I'm too stupid to say anything that deserves being in your magnificent signature.

  3. #15263

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    Turkey 'expels Dutch cows' amid diplomatic crisis

    Istanbul (AFP) - Turkey's red meat association has ordered a consignment of prize Dutch cattle to be sent back to the Netherlands, saying it no longer wants to farm the cows due to the diplomatic crisis between the countries.

    Bulent Tunc, the head of the Turkish Association of Red Meat Producers, told Turkish media that a symbolic consignment of 40 Holstein Friesian cattle was already being sent back to the Netherlands.

    "The Dutch Holstein cows have become very common in our country. But this breed is starting to cause serious problems," he told the Anadolu news agency.

    "In future we do not want animal products from Holland. The first batch of Holsteins have been loaded and we will send them back," he added.

    He said Turkey should start focusing on breeding its own cattle. "We have our own quality breeds," he said.
    Holy crap... Not even the best screenwriters could write this stuff up..

  4. #15264

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candy Crush View Post
    Turkey 'expels Dutch cows' amid diplomatic crisis

    Istanbul (AFP) - Turkey's red meat association has ordered a consignment of prize Dutch cattle to be sent back to the Netherlands, saying it no longer wants to farm the cows due to the diplomatic crisis between the countries.

    Bulent Tunc, the head of the Turkish Association of Red Meat Producers, told Turkish media that a symbolic consignment of 40 Holstein Friesian cattle was already being sent back to the Netherlands.

    "The Dutch Holstein cows have become very common in our country. But this breed is starting to cause serious problems," he told the Anadolu news agency.

    "In future we do not want animal products from Holland. The first batch of Holsteins have been loaded and we will send them back," he added.

    He said Turkey should start focusing on breeding its own cattle. "We have our own quality breeds," he said.
    Holy crap... Not even the best screenwriters could write this stuff up..
    Fucking lol

    Turkey has genuinely gone fully mental.

  5. #15265

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    I'd say The Netherlands shoulld send them a wagon of pigs as a replacment and a genuine "We're so sorry!" symbol ...

  6. #15266
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    Quote Originally Posted by metacannibal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    our education system is so awesome that if you have an immigrant (or working class) background it's pretty much impossible to get higher education.

    Haha. OK. So its the governments fault that stupid people do not put an emphasis of development and fostering of skills in their kids?

    School and University are FREE for ALL. Just because retards do not read to their kids, do not raise kids properly does not make it the education systems fault. It makes it the fault of STUPID UNMOTIVATED IDIOTS. Because there are plenty of "working class" kids in german schools and universities. Just not many of STUPID WORKING CLASS parents.

    Problem with a free society is that when people are FREE to move up their class, those who are not stupid will move up. So most non lazy non stupid "working class" parents stop being "working class" by their 40ies.

    Would you consider a Daimler Schichtarbeiter making 60k EUR a year working class? Thats exactly what he is, and his kids will get proper education in most cases, not because he can afford, it, after all it is free, but because he is a hard working and skilled member of the working class.

    What you mean is that there will be no kids from day job alcoholics getting to university. Thats not due to the system but due to the parents being east germans and rejects.
    Hi, I'd like you to meet reality.

    Seriously.

    85-95% of those that get an Abitur have parents that have the Abitur themselves. Same goes for university degrees.

    You can't honestly believe that this is pure personal choice.

    When I get to a pc I will link the studies and literature that goes into detail. The gist is that it's a systemic issue that has multiple reasons with no easy or even remotely cheap solutions.

    Tapapapatalk
    nevar forget

  7. #15267
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    85-95% really? seems excessively high. Do you have numbers for switzerland?

    I know its bad to go from personal experience to statistical evidence but I'd be mondo surprised if it was as high here.

  8. #15268
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    A study from 2012, released slightly after the material I used for my MA Ed studies:

    https://www.vodafone-stiftung.de/all...f921626eb87bc7

    In German, includes some reasons for the low social mobility.

    I need to find my old material from uni, but I expect to have ... lost that.
    nevar forget

  9. #15269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    A study from 2012, released slightly after the material I used for my MA Ed studies:

    https://www.vodafone-stiftung.de/all...f921626eb87bc7

    In German, includes some reasons for the low social mobility.

    I need to find my old material from uni, but I expect to have ... lost that.
    That study points out that the fault is with the parents and not the system though. And you worded it as if it was the systems fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  10. #15270
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    inb4 muslims doing that school shooting in france.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  11. #15271

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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    A study from 2012, released slightly after the material I used for my MA Ed studies:

    https://www.vodafone-stiftung.de/all...f921626eb87bc7

    In German, includes some reasons for the low social mobility.

    I need to find my old material from uni, but I expect to have ... lost that.
    That study points out that the fault is with the parents and not the system though. And you worded it as if it was the systems fault.
    Erhm ... where do you get that from?

    I read 5.1.1 through 5.1.3 different. Oversimplified it reads "Bad starting conditions (parents) can be overcome, if these kids receive (system) support early on."

  12. #15272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    A study from 2012, released slightly after the material I used for my MA Ed studies:

    https://www.vodafone-stiftung.de/all...f921626eb87bc7

    In German, includes some reasons for the low social mobility.

    I need to find my old material from uni, but I expect to have ... lost that.
    That study points out that the fault is with the parents and not the system though. And you worded it as if it was the systems fault.
    Erhm ... where do you get that from?

    I read 5.1.1 through 5.1.3 different. Oversimplified it reads "Bad starting conditions (parents) can be overcome, if these kids receive (system) support early on."
    But the reason there is anything to overcome in the first place is due to the parents, the system itself isnt unfair, or stacked against those of "immigrant (or working class) background". The statement of

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    our education system is so awesome that if you have an immigrant (or working class) background it's pretty much impossible to get higher education.
    heavily implies its the fault of the system that those people cant get higher education. Which really isnt the case, its on the parents.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  13. #15273
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hel OWeen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    A study from 2012, released slightly after the material I used for my MA Ed studies:

    https://www.vodafone-stiftung.de/all...f921626eb87bc7

    In German, includes some reasons for the low social mobility.

    I need to find my old material from uni, but I expect to have ... lost that.
    That study points out that the fault is with the parents and not the system though. And you worded it as if it was the systems fault.
    Erhm ... where do you get that from?

    I read 5.1.1 through 5.1.3 different. Oversimplified it reads "Bad starting conditions (parents) can be overcome, if these kids receive (system) support early on."
    But the reason there is anything to overcome in the first place is due to the parents, the system itself isnt unfair, or stacked against those of "immigrant (or working class) background". The statement of

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Appleby View Post
    our education system is so awesome that if you have an immigrant (or working class) background it's pretty much impossible to get higher education.
    heavily implies its the fault of the system that those people cant get higher education. Which really isnt the case, its on the parents.
    If you identify that early intervention is needed by the system to prevent an outcome and the outcome is persistent due to lack of intervention; the obvious conclusion is those responsible for the intervention are at fault.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Mason
    It is absurd that we are capable of witnessing a 40,000 year old system of gender oppression begin to dissolve before our eyes yet still see the abolition of a 200 year old economic system as an unrealistic utopia.

  14. #15274
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    The parents are not providing the best surroundings to ensure the best possible outcome. Saying they are at fault is a bit of a egg and hen question, most often they don't know better, can't do it better due to financial constraints, never experienced it any differently and think that's how you're supposed to raise your kids / lead your life. Who is at fault, are they, their parents, the grandparents?

    Our school system knows these issues, like I mentioned, it's part of the education science curriculum at the universities. Studies have proven that for ages, the German Wikipedia article on the topic is MASSIVE (37 pages if printed, longer than the one on Albert Einstein for example).
    Our school system needs massive and profound reforms to battle this problem. But those don't come about. One issue is that education reforms take time to show whether they are successful, longer than four years (you need at least two classes to run through a large part of the system to be able to say if it works, so longer than a four year term in office). The other issue is that some of the ideas require massive changes to how we run schools. After primary school we split our students between high achieving Gymnasium (sort of grammar school) and low achieving Oberschule/Hauptschule/Realschule (different types of comprehensive school). The latter are all rolled into one type of school now, like my own Integrierte Sekundarschule, a proper comprehensive school. Gymnasien have a massive lobby by the middle and upper middle class, which also tends to be the most politically active group in Germany anyway. So changes to that structure are hard. And austerity doesn't make it any easier anyway. Most states have cut reimbursing teachers for money they spent on class and field trips for example. Getting more expensive programs approved is hard, as is finding people willing to do it.

    Sure I can blame the parents, but the types of parents we talk about aren't able to do it any better even with help (quite a few of our parents at my school do get help from youth services and still can't manage to be better). But their capabilities are limited even though a lot try and try hard.

    Believe me it's not easy looking into the eyes of parents while telling them that while they raised kids that individually are polite, nice and sweet kids but in a group are downright vicious to each other and very dangerous to their classmate's physical health. Or listening to a mother listing all the punishments her son has gotten for the three letters and such she got from us, clearly showing that she can't think of anything else than grounding for three months, no TV, computer, phone, no Easter, no birthday. That was just yesterday.

    We as schools could do a lot more to offset what the parents can't manage. But we generally aren't given the tools to do so.
    nevar forget

  15. #15275
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    Next up:
    W0lf Crendraven, Lord of Castle W0lfenstein, learns that the whole Gymnasium / Hauptschule system is stacked heavily in favor of the the Bürgerlich Christlich Sozial population.
    Because fuck the proletariat!
    2/10/17 Greatposthellpurge never forget

  16. #15276
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    Oh the tyranny of freedom.

  17. #15277
    W0lf Crendraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    Next up:
    W0lf Crendraven, Lord of Castle W0lfenstein, learns that the whole Gymnasium / Hauptschule system is stacked heavily in favor of the the Bürgerlich Christlich Sozial population.
    Because fuck the proletariat!
    The system itself is stacked in favour of no one, it's independent of the parents wealth and it only rewards those that do well and it punishes those that do badly. Its only dependant of the parents treatment of their own children in how that treatment affects their grades i.e their intelligence.

    There are no special good schools for rich people, or special good universities for rich people, its all about ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuackBot View Post
    I see you have read nietzsche's little known work "beyond boobs and butts".

  18. #15278
    Movember 2012 Stoffl's Avatar
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    2/10/17 Greatposthellpurge never forget

  19. #15279
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    Quote Originally Posted by W0lf Crendraven View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoffl View Post
    Next up:
    W0lf Crendraven, Lord of Castle W0lfenstein, learns that the whole Gymnasium / Hauptschule system is stacked heavily in favor of the the Bürgerlich Christlich Sozial population.
    Because fuck the proletariat!
    The system itself is stacked in favour of no one, it's independent of the parents wealth and it only rewards those that do well and it punishes those that do badly. Its only dependant of the parents treatment of their own children in how that treatment affects their grades i.e their intelligence.

    There are no special good schools for rich people, or special good universities for rich people, its all about ability.
    Hahahahahaha. I mean sure, schools aren't closed to people from certain backgrounds due to laws, but when all the better off people move out of an area, the areas turn into effectively ghettos which in turn means that the schools have only a certain type of students. That is true all over the world even without the Hauptschule / Gymnasium split. The German split just reinforces this.

    50% of my students are on Hartz IV, the rest is just above minimum wage. Really well off students are extremely rare. And that can be found across the nation, as statistics can show you (the senate of Berlin has all school statistics online and public, excerpts, list generator from full statistics, specific schools).
    nevar forget

  20. #15280

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    Frightened teachers at a Sydney primary school have revealed students are showing signs of extreme radicalisation at a young age, saying they have been traumatised by threats of beheading and other violent behaviour.
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/nsw/a/3466...-family/#page1

    I start to feel sorry for Joe.

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